Ever feel like the solo act in a world of ensemble casts? That's the thread we tug at in our latest heart-to-heart, as Courtney Romanowski and I welcome the vibrant Jen (Jay) Nakhai, and new dad, Brody Clemmer, to the mix. We peel back the layers of what it means to grow up as an only child, touching on the bittersweet longing for siblings and the imaginative solutions we concocted to keep loneliness at bay. Jen's fiery passion for community meets Brody's fresh paternal insights, creating a tapestry of stories that reveal how a singular upbringing shapes everything from our therapy practices to the way we forge and nurture connections throughout our lives.
Laughter mingles with earnestness as we revisit the echoes of Hungry Hungry Hippos and the significance of those we choose to call family—biological or otherwise. Our conversation weaves through the nostalgic avenues of childhood and into the complex interplay of relationships in adulthood, juxtaposing personal revelations with intriguing research on human connection. Whether you're an only child yourself or simply curious about how different family dynamics leave their mark, this episode promises a compelling look at the ties that bind us, in blood and in spirit, to the hearts we hold dear.
You can reach Brody Clemmer on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brodyclemmer/
Here is his website: https://brodyclemmer.com/
His company's website is: https://koahealth.com/
You can reach Jay Nakhai's from this website: https://getaeonhelp.com/
Courtney Romanowski can be reached at: https://www.anewdirectiontherapy.com/
Ever feel like the solo act in a world of ensemble casts? That's the thread we tug at in our latest heart-to-heart, as Courtney Romanowski and I welcome the vibrant Jen (Jay) Nakhai, and new dad, Brody Clemmer, to the mix. We peel back the layers of what it means to grow up as an only child, touching on the bittersweet longing for siblings and the imaginative solutions we concocted to keep loneliness at bay. Jen's fiery passion for community meets Brody's fresh paternal insights, creating a tapestry of stories that reveal how a singular upbringing shapes everything from our therapy practices to the way we forge and nurture connections throughout our lives.
Laughter mingles with earnestness as we revisit the echoes of Hungry Hungry Hippos and the significance of those we choose to call family—biological or otherwise. Our conversation weaves through the nostalgic avenues of childhood and into the complex interplay of relationships in adulthood, juxtaposing personal revelations with intriguing research on human connection. Whether you're an only child yourself or simply curious about how different family dynamics leave their mark, this episode promises a compelling look at the ties that bind us, in blood and in spirit, to the hearts we hold dear.
You can reach Brody Clemmer on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brodyclemmer/
Here is his website: https://brodyclemmer.com/
His company's website is: https://koahealth.com/
You can reach Jay Nakhai's from this website: https://getaeonhelp.com/
Courtney Romanowski can be reached at: https://www.anewdirectiontherapy.com/
Hi and welcome to Finding your Way Through Therapy. A proud member of the PsychCraft Network, the goal of this podcast is to demystify therapy, what can happen in therapy and the wide array of conversations you can have in and about therapy Through personal experiences. Guests will talk about therapy, their experiences with it and how psychology and therapy are present in many places in their lives, with lots of authenticity and a touch of humor. Here is your host, steve Bisson.
Speaker 2:GetFreeai yes, you've heard me talk about it previously in other episodes, but I'm going to talk about it again because get freeai is just a great service. Imagine being able to pay attention to your clients all the time instead of writing notes and making sure that the note's going to sound good and how are you going to write that note, and things like that. Get free, that AI liberates you from making sure that you're writing what the client is saying, because it is keeping track of what you're saying and will create, after the end of every session, a progress note. But it goes above and beyond that. Not only does it create a progress note, it also gives you suggestions for goals, gives you even a mental status if you've asked questions around that, as well as being able to write a letter for your client to know what you talked about. So that's the great, great thing. It saves me time, it saves me a lot of aggravation and it just speeds up the progress note process so well. And for $99 a month. I know that that's nothing. That's worth my time, that's worth my money. You know, the best part of it, too, is that if you want to go and put in the code Steve50 when you get the service at the checkout code is Steve50, you get $50 off your first month and if you get a whole year, you save a whole 10% for the whole year. So again, steve50 at checkout for getfreeai will give you $50 off for the first month and, like I said, get a full year, get 10% off, get free from writing notes, get free from always scribbling while you're talking to a client and just paying attention to your client. So they win out, you win out, everybody wins, and I think that this is the greatest thing. And if you're up to a point where you got to change a treatment plan, well, the goals are generated for you. So, getfreeai code Steve50 to save $50 on your first month, on your first month to how it works.
Speaker 2:But episode 148 is with other, only children. I want to talk about something that is interesting also to me. If you're an only child, maybe you'll find a lot of empathy here, and if you're not an only child, maybe you can understand it from different points of views. Uh, my co-host, courtney romanowski, will be here. Uh, you've heard her before here and she still continues to. Co-host jen nakai was on episode 39 and 40, and I'm so happy to have her back as Jay, as she likes to be called. I call her Jen, I don't know why. At the end of the day, she's been someone who brought me to different points of views, has really challenged more of a community world aspect, of different things, and I'm sure she'll bring that on.
Speaker 2:And then a newcomer, brody Clemmer different things, and I'm sure she'll bring that on. And then a newcomer, brody Clemmer, who's a new father, son, soon to be husband, product leader. He comes from Philly and has spent most of his life there. He works for COA Health. I'm sure he'll talk about that and he's trying to live his life as the way he wants it and I can't wait to meet him. It's always good to meet other guests and here's the interview. Well, hi everyone. And this is a uh great group to have. Uh, because on episode 148 we're going to talk about something that's, you know, let's play with therapy, plays with our minds, and that's only child. And what I did is invite three other only children. One of them is my co-host, courtney Romanowski, that you've heard on several episodes that I can't even enumerate, but Courtney is going to be co-hosting with me. Nice to see you, courtney, outside of the office, even though I don't see you at the office.
Speaker 3:Nice to see you.
Speaker 2:in general, my other guest, someone who was on two episodes. We talked about social justice, we talked about the effects of COVID on the community and we've been trying so hard to get us together and we can't even get a like a meeting together, never mind getting a this gig going. But we got this gig going and I even brought my cup just to promote her. Oh, represent. I love it, see you didn't forget. It's all the little details. I love it.
Speaker 4:See, you didn't forget it's all the little details, yes, but uh, jen, that guy, welcome again. Thank you very much. Thank you for having me one more time to talk about all of our little traumas here and welcome.
Speaker 2:Welcome to our trauma, brody klemer. Brody, I, you know this your first time on the show, so welcome, thank you. And it accidentally happened. But I wanted a balance of male and female too, because I think there is some differences too. Then wasn't able to do the racial and everything else that goes with the other stuff, but at least you know gender is a good start. But, um, I've introduced all of you, but how about you introduce yourself, brody, since you're the newest member of the family of finding your Way Through Therapy?
Speaker 5:Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much for having me Pleasure to be here Again. My name is Brody. I'm based in Philly Currently. I'm an only child, obviously, and I live in Philadelphia with my newborn son and my fiance, and my family is pretty close. I'm a product manager and actually work within the mental health field. I work for a company called Koa Health and we're designing all kinds of comprehensive care models for mental health for employees with multinational companies. So it's great to be here. I work very closely in mental health and I'm excited to kind of dive into this conversation.
Speaker 2:Well, brody, welcome, and I was talking to you pre-interview. Like after reading your bio I'm like I've got so many other questions but we're going to stick to only children for now. But we'll have to talk. I like that idea about work stuff and for mental health. Jen Nakai, I know, I know you, I know you've been on a couple of shows, but it may be good for you to reintroduce yourself to our audience.
Speaker 4:Absolutely. My name is Jennifer Nakai, or Jay, if you will. I'm the owner of Aeon Counseling. We are based out of Massachusetts and we provide psychotherapy via telehealth to decolonize all psychotherapeutic spaces, really. And so we decolonize the world, we decolonize our egos. That's what I'm here to do on this earth.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, and if you ever need a good gluten-free restaurant in Boston, Jen's your woman.
Speaker 4:Gluten-freeness is next to godliness, so yes, Well, I missed a nice transition.
Speaker 2:I'm going to say let's go to goddess courtney romanowski and just say hi thank you.
Speaker 3:Yes, um, I'm courtney romanowski, licensed mental health counselor, also a registered dance movement therapist. Um, in massachusetts. I work with steve, or at least in the same office space sometimes. Hopefully, we get to see each other Just looking forward to talking about being an only child and the what the experience has been like, because I feel like I get most triggered with my clients when they say something about only children and I have to like hold it together, just joking Like it's not that bad but like it's okay. Only children are good people too.
Speaker 2:Call me selfish, but I say something I love all of my clients.
Speaker 4:But I just want to throw it out there that I always wanted siblings, so I don't know if I'm alone in that, but for sure, for sure.
Speaker 3:I begged my parents for other kids well, they got it right the first time right.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, yes well, maybe it's a good place to start. I think, um, you know I want usually, you know, I think that we we go through different parts of what it is to be an only child. I know, for me I didn't want to be an only child. You know it's hard to play monopoly on your own and for me, I always wanted a sibling. But you know, jen started the question. I think that's a good question to ask how about we're going to Courtney, since I've said that I've wanted a sibling just to play monopoly, but, among other things, yeah, I actually.
Speaker 3:I remember clearly playing hungry Hippos by myself, as great as it was to win every time.
Speaker 4:Or memory unlocked, oh yeah.
Speaker 3:Right, yeah, so I was blessed enough to have cousins my age who I was very, very close with. On my mom's side. My grandparents, my uncle and cousins lived next to each other. So when we were little little, we were always together. So I kind of felt like I had siblings up to five or six, but I didn't really ever feel like I wanted a sibling.
Speaker 2:I don't know.
Speaker 3:Really yeah, no, it was never. I mean maybe at certain points when things were hard, but on day to day know it never really occurred to me.
Speaker 2:Well, Brody, what about you? Did you want any siblings?
Speaker 5:Yeah, I mean I, I distinctly remember going back and forth on this quite a bit. You know I never wanted to share any of my things. But at the same time, you know, I grew up. I grew up on a mountain. So I grew up in, in in, in rural Pennsylvania, outside of outside of Philadelphia, about two hours away. I lived on top of a mountain.
Speaker 5:I had very, very little access, you know, to people in town, to, you know, to other developments and everything like that. And there were there was absolutely times when I, when I was like I wish I had a sibling, but I think very similar to Courtney, like I don't think I really knew any better. You know, I, I, I had, I had, um, I had neighbors who I grew up next to, that were that were my age, one young, one a year younger and one a year older, and we basically became siblings and you know, we kind of made it our own, our own little, uh little group there. But yeah, I don't think I ever really thought about it because I think my parents, like it was just inherent that I was just with my parents.
Speaker 3:You know, I was either alone or I was with my parents and like that was, that was my experience yeah, I think too pretty reminded me I was also blessed to have such good friends that they became my siblings, like we're just so close that they you know I was with them often enough, definitely a few um growing up that they were, they felt like my siblings, um, but I think and I'm sure we'll go into this a bit more as I get older I wish I had a sibling. Just life stuff that's coming up, but as a kid. Yeah, brody, I think you said it right, like it didn't, I didn't know any other way.
Speaker 5:Yeah, it's funny, I actually so my neighbor, his name's Kyle when we were growing up we're both only children, and so him and I were the same age. We grew up right down the street from each other. We basically became brothers, so much so that we're both 34 now. We've gone way different life paths, but we actually live three houses down from each other now, uh, in center city, philadelphia. So like we've stayed, we've stayed in that realm of you know of kind of brothers, um, which has been really interesting to to play out uh, does anybody here have step brothers and sisters?
Speaker 3:oh, that's like a totally other thing.
Speaker 4:Yeah, ooh, I have two steps. Loved every second of it, even though didn't get to really grow up next to them as much as I wanted to. But again, single child life, we're out here trying. But you know, it's interesting to see yourself in the format of, for example, a different gender and my brother Exactly, it's like he is me, but with way more hair. So I really enjoyed the idea of at least having step siblings to connect with at some point in life, as much as we've connected or disconnected and reconnected again. I was wondering if anybody else had that experience.
Speaker 2:But well, I had a different experience in quebec. Growing up I went to my grandmother's house every single week with, you know, anywhere from five or six people to 22 people, and imagine that in a two-bedroom apartment, and that was every saturday, we would have that. So, you know, part of me grew up with my cousins, and they're not step siblings, but they're like brothers or sisters and you know, I always thought that until the passing of my grandmother. And what happened is my grandmother was the glue of the family. And when she passed away, you know, do I talk here and there to my cousins? Sure, but they're nowhere near, and not even siblings.
Speaker 2:I, you know, and this is. You know, I'm closer to Courtney and Jen than I am to my own cousins and Brody. Sure, we'll get close soon. But just giving two examples of people who I consider close, who know a little bit of me and my cousins. I wouldn't know if they're struggling or they're doing well, or they want to work in a different industry or what have you. So I have no clue. But we did have that family thing. So I learned to do some of the non-traditional, only child stuff there, so to speak.
Speaker 5:I think it's a really interesting point, Steve, because this is something that I've thought about quite a bit, because my fiance is very, very close to her family and her sister and I often wonder, it feels to me like I have very much been a part of choosing my family right, so, as an only child, of choosing choosing my family Right, so like as an only child, I, as I got older, I came to realize that I choose. You know, I much more appreciate the family that I've chosen than the family that I've been given, and I and I wonder if that's an only child thing, Like I'm, you know, I I love my parents deeply and I love, you know, my grandmother, and but I feel like the communication style is very different, you know, to your point, Steve, in the very beginning, like maybe we're too independent, but like that's that's something that I kind of pride myself on is choosing the family that surrounds me, and so I wonder if that's a similar experience.
Speaker 3:I think, maybe as only children again, I don't know, because I don't know what it's like to be anything else, but maybe we're given or we have that opportunity to choose our family without the guilt of having family that we're supposed to love and cherish and be close with and have this bond with that. Maybe some siblings don't feel at some point or in their relationship, I don't know. It's interesting to think about. We definitely get to choose our family. It's nice. I think it's nice.
Speaker 3:But it also comes with some hardships at the same time.
Speaker 2:Jen, I want to hear from you. You've been contemplating.
Speaker 4:Just thinking about chosen families, that's a good point to bring about my only child, because when I think about my chosen family and how my mom had only me as a biological daughter, but the amount of kids that she essentially fostered because of my upbringing and the people at my school, it ended up being that my mom, kind of you know, took in a lot of the kids from the LGBT community that were being displaced from their homes or mistreated at home and guess what? They always ended up at my house. So I'm not surprised that my chosen family is how it is now that you know, in thinking back now, my mom set it up so that the family was ever changing and ever flowing and depending on who needed it. And when I and when my mother, for example, passed away, there were numerous other people who were grieving with me the loss of a parental figure. In that moment and in that moment I did not feel like an only child. Actually come to think of it. So good stuff. All the traumas.
Speaker 2:Well, maybe that's a good. Another jumping point from what we just talked about is only child, just on paper, so to speak. Is it just a feeling? Is it just like you know? Because there are times where, I will be honest, I feel like an only child and there's times where I'm like, no, I don't feel like an only child, I don't feel like I'm the you know, and I think that I'll spare right now. But I want to go back to what AI popped up as only children and our different reactions to it. But I don't know, maybe it is, you know, when we think about it it's, maybe it's a state of mind, I don't know. I mean on paper, maybe it's, you know, true, but do you think it's a state of mind? Anyone?
Speaker 5:So I'm, I'm, I'm kind of like channeling my dad here. So my, my dad does have a sister, but she's 11 years or nine years older than him and he always said that he felt like an only child because, you know, she was significantly older. And so you know, although you know, and they were, they were born in different decades. Of one, you know, one was born in the forties, I think, and one was, you know, one was born in the late fifties and so like very, you know, very different thought processes, and so that's an interesting question of whether or not you know it's a feeling instead of a biological response.
Speaker 4:I definitely had the feeling while playing Hungry Hungry Hippos back to Courtney, during the play time of specifically Hungry Hungry Hippos circa 1991, perhaps of specifically Hungry Hungry Hippos circa 1991, perhaps I had a feeling of, hmm, if only I had another person to just tap the hippo in front of me. But you're right that the neighbors would step in and best friends would step in, and then you know other spiritual siblings if you will. So, but then, ooh, then we could go into a whole different topic of step parents and how that feels.
Speaker 2:Whoa, that's a definite, definitely a different show, but I I think that that's not a bad question. I I can host that one. I never had a step parent, so I don't know how that feels. But uh, brady, you were gonna go.
Speaker 4:Oh sorry, jen I was just gonna say, like I'm an only child of you know, biologically two people, but I have had so many parents, even you know, after my parents split up or uh, they moved on each in each direction, I got to have parents. I just again just adding to the family, adding to the homest.
Speaker 2:Well, I think that it's also interesting to think about. You know, I recently was listening to a book on tape and then I looked it up just to make sure it's true. So there was a book written with over 2000 characters, but the 2000 characters only interacted with 150 of the other characters. And the reason why is that neurologically we can only connect closely, or at least somewhat closely, to 150 people. It's actually proven by neurology, that neurological research, that that's how it is. So as a normal child I have that one less connection, or two or three, depending on the situation. So I think it's just neurologically sound for us to not have siblings. What do you guys think?
Speaker 4:well, you mean like there's a benefit to having less people or there's a disadvantage to having less people in your inner circle?
Speaker 2:I guess it was my funny way of saying I don't get to choose my sister, but I can choose, you know, jen or courtney as my friend, but my, my sister and my brother couldn't choose them if I had one.
Speaker 5:I mean, I always thought that it was a good thing, you know, looking back and being able to reflect on what skills I think that I've gained from being an only child that are different than, I think, people with siblings.
Speaker 5:I think that that is certainly one of them, right. I think people with siblings I think that that is certainly one of them right. Like just the, the, the number of, of connections and networks, and and the way that I've kind of grown and expanded that and been able to choose, choose that path with very little restriction, you know, very little influence from an older or younger sibling, or you know, I I never had a sibling who had a bunch of friends that I was jealous of or wanted to be a part of that group, or you know anything like that. Like I, I had very little social pressure which allowed me to kind of forge my own path, but also forced me to forge my own path, which I think is is also a unique skill and and um, something that I I value highly, uh, in my adult life, yeah, I think you know, stevie, where you had asked.
Speaker 3:Is being an only child a state of mind? And maybe but I think it definitely, like anything else, forms our personality and each who we become as human beings in this world and then I also want to.
Speaker 3:You know, there's the um, the stereotype of being an only child, and what you know. I mentioned feeling triggered by clients or people in general and they say, oh well, they're an only child, so yadaada, yada, yada. I'm like well, yes, and there are good things about being an only child and strengths and just like anybody else, such as being able to really forge your own path, and maybe we are too independent at times, but being independent isn't a bad thing necessarily. I think Steve too, too. You would mention to ai said selfish or something like that, and I think that's all relative as well well, let me uh, since you're both bringing it up in different ways, uh, I'm gonna.
Speaker 2:And then turn to jen and tell her, ask her for a reaction. Even though I did it pre-interview on On pre-interview, I actually AI'd this question about. You know how do you define it? Like I can't remember the exact way AI, what is it about? Only children, or something like that. I can't remember the exact words I put in and it said this is how we characterize only children Lonely, selfish, lack of social skills, perfectionist, too independent, difficulty to share and introverted. So I know I had a different reaction to it than most people. But, jen, what was your first reaction when I said that?
Speaker 4:My first reaction is that everything has pros and cons, right Like is being an only child lonely at the time of playing. Yes, is being an only child lonely at the time of playing?
Speaker 4:Yes, is being an only child worse? When it comes to generational wealth? Yes, is being an only child something where you might feel lonely or maybe kind of selfish, but it's just like, yeah, but then all the resources of your parents are going to you, and I know that brought up different dynamics in my family at some point. Just because I was an only child. I mean, there were conversations about like, yeah, well, you get more of the shares. I didn't even know what that meant really, but it is true that I had way more undivided attention.
Speaker 4:So, in the same way that I was selfish and lonely, you know, then there's like you know, the soul hair of something. But also, when we get in trouble, for example, or we need help or we need family, when things get real is what I'm trying to say. I think that would be a disadvantage. Right, it's less people to call upon and say, hey, I really need this right now. I need you to bail me out, please show up, keep it in the family, don't tell anyone, don't tell anyone. And so you know, it's like I feel like I missed out on that, but also got loads of benefits.
Speaker 2:Well, how about we hold on to the benefits, because I think that would be a good other question for us to think about all the benefits. But, brody, I turned to you a little bit here. You had a different reaction. Also, I know what I thought about this list, but, brody, I saw you react in a different way. So how about you tell me what your reaction is to that list that AI created?
Speaker 5:I think my reaction is it's the same as my reaction for almost anything which is like own it, whatever. Like you know, it's just it's, it's.
Speaker 2:I don't time out, time out, time out. I gotta stop this interview right now. I own shit. All right, this is not who I am. I am not that anyway, I'm just joking. Of course.
Speaker 5:Go ahead, brody you know, I, I'm a, I can judge me, I whatever it's fine you know, I know who I am inside.
Speaker 5:I know who I am inside. I think it's really interesting. I agree with some of it. I don't agree with all of it, I think. For me, yeah, I was absolutely lonely but and I know that we'll get into the benefits but like that has allowed me to be extremely comfortable with boredom, which I think is one of the most important skills that no one has, uh, anymore, uh, so I think that's, you know, I'm super comfortable with that. But the, the social, the socializing thing, I think is really interesting because I, I am very social, but I have explored this in therapy many, many times because it always keeps creeping back up, which is I'm extremely good with adults and I am terrible associating with people my own age and it's getting better now that everybody's kind of an adult, but I will say growing up.
Speaker 5:Speak for yourself again, Brody adult, but I will say growing up Speak for yourself again, brody Growing up as an only child, my parents would take me to all their friends' parties and I would go to these places and I became really, really good at talking with older generations and associating with them. And then I found myself when everybody went off to college, and the other thing is I never went to college either, and so I never actually even got that exposure or that experience to socialize with people my own age, and that really really has, I think, impacted the way that I have associated or assimilated into, you know, into different scenarios within my life. And so I think that is a big impact from a socialization perspective is that, you know, I don't feel like I'm not capable of socializing Well. I'm very capable of socializing well, but who I socialize with and how I socialize with them varies. Good point.
Speaker 4:So what you're saying, Brody, is that you're more popular on Facebook than you are on TikTok.
Speaker 5:Oh my gosh. Well, I have neither one of those.
Speaker 4:Oh, wow, okay, yeah, see, I found that's hanging out with my mom's friends, which are still very much involved in my life, interestingly enough. Talk about step parent behavior. It gave me a way better window to complicated subjects, things going on in the world at the time. But I feel like I also had a healthy balance of community kids where I lived as well, not just school, so that's interesting and, of course, college, but I feel like AI missed on a specific word that I maybe wanted to use is narcissistic. Everything for me, right, selfish, everything towards me, all the resources for me.
Speaker 2:So basically we're doing a podcast that no one else would understand, because we were two narcissists.
Speaker 3:I'm not a narcissist.
Speaker 4:I grew up. I just own it.
Speaker 5:Well, like on that topic, because I've had this conversation with my fiance before Because I have a coffee mug, don't drink out of my coffee mug, it's for my coffee. I have it every morning. Don't do it like it's mine, right, or and like that. That. That happens on a regular basis and she's like who cares? It's a coffee mug, you know. But like I do wonder, is that just me, or is that like an only child thing, where I feel a sense of like ownership over certain things, some things I don't care about, but some things I'm like don't touch that, like that's that's mine yeah, like the, the socializing part, I feel like I don't know if my social skills were lack of or whatever has anything to do with being an only child.
Speaker 3:I think there are other parts of my life or my personality or whatever that comes into play with that stuff. But I've had similar experiences with the older generations. I'm still, at this point, feeling more comfortable sitting with people who are older than me than maybe necessarily people more my age, my closest friends aside. But, yeah, there's a safety almost with the older, older generations and that, that's the word.
Speaker 3:It's safety, it there's it's like a comfort and comfort yeah um, but I also, too, just want to um hit on the, the boredom piece that you mentioned, brody, that like, yeah, I had to play hungry, hungry hippos, right, not to just keep bringing up that game but, like I problem solved that right. I got creative with that.
Speaker 3:And there was a lot of creative play in my life, especially as a dancer, that I'm very grateful for that. Maybe would have been different if I had had siblings and didn't have to play, and I think that that's a part of me that I still love and appreciate that maybe, again, would be different had I had siblings growing up.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I always say that, like it's, I accredit an intense curiosity to being an only child because I, you know, I look at other people and I, who, who have siblings, and they just got direction. They constantly got direction. You know, oh, you do it this way, or like, oh, do this, try this, do this, whatever right, it was that feedback and I didn't have that and so it was just a. I always say, like one of my traits is is intense curiosity and like that's I. I credit that to having to figure it out.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, one of the things I want to talk about is that and you know, again, I like to joke a lot, you know that. So, courtney, is that why we're friends? Cause I'm older? That's, that's why I was wondering. Thank you very much, I thought I was special. It's just because of my age. Thank you so much.
Speaker 3:You make me feel safe. That's a compliment that I'm choosing you as my friend.
Speaker 4:Let's get a little Freudian Shall we.
Speaker 2:Let's Jen.
Speaker 4:Because now that I think about it it's like damn, my partner is older than me, what the and? So yeah, I don't know if you guys really think about psychodynamic lenses, always go back to freud somehow, um, or try to anyway. But feeling comfortable and safe with folks who are older, I mean, that's definitely something that I look for in relationship.
Speaker 2:Oh no, so yeah, a little fre Freudian there, interesting you know the other part too that I was listening to and I was going to go to you, jed, because when she said older people, I saw your face go. I didn't know psychoanalytic, but I saw your face change. But the other part too is, you know, again, I'm a, as some people know, I practice Buddhism and the principles that go with Buddhism and I think that maybe for us we found a way to get a better balance because we are only child, we had a lot of time to reflect and being lonely is not the worst thing in the world. I, you know I, because people were busy this weekend, I think I interacted with the people at the supermarket all weekend and I was fine with me. I just, you know, stayed home, went for walks, worked on the garden, get ready for the spring, didn't bother me at all.
Speaker 2:Being introverted. I'm an introvert. I will admit that freely. People say that's weird. Because you know people see my personality. You know I need to recharge every single time. I have, like, large interactions with people and it's not because of the people there necessarily, it's just my person. So I can be extroverted in the right situation. Like, obviously I run a podcast, you got to be a little extroverted to pull it up that shit. But I also know that for me the introversion is so important in my life to get my energy back and difficulty to share. I'll be the first one to give the shirt off my back if someone needs a shirt. But I also know that it's my fucking coffee mug. So I'm with you, man Right there.
Speaker 5:Right, I'll give you my shirt, but, like, acknowledge that it's my shirt, acknowledge me. Acknowledge that I'm giving you this shirt off my back.
Speaker 2:I mean I'm being selfish and not the worst thing in the world. I've been working a lot and you know you can talk about all the techniques you want in therapy, I don't really care but for me I've been letting a whole lot of working with older gentlemen who are getting either are retired or getting ready to retire and I'm like it's time for you to be selfish. And they all look at me like I have five. I'm not selfish. I'm like, yes, you are, give me your wallet. No, that's my wallet. All of a sudden you're selfish.
Speaker 2:So you know, being selfish is not the worst thing in the world. I think that you know we're all in the mental health field, ironically for the selflessness part, but I'm sure that we have our selfish side and it's okay to be balanced. So I don't want to go through all of them, but I think that there's parts of me that also realized while we were talking that we're a balance and that's what life is. It's not about being selfless all the time and being selfish all the time. It's about a balance.
Speaker 3:I don't know what your reaction is to this, but this is definitely something that I had the opportunity to reflect because I'm an only child.
Speaker 3:Maybe what I'm sensing, steve, and what I appreciate is and maybe this is just my own defensiveness coming up, the ai definition felt like again, yeah, here are all the bad things about only children and like they're selfish and lonely and like negative, negative, negative. But you're, there isn't, it isn't just negative. These are, these are also positive things and there are also other positive traits. Yeah, there's a balance to it.
Speaker 5:Did I have a lot of toys growing up.
Speaker 3:Yes, I had a lot of toys growing up and I didn't always have people to play with the toys. There's that balance right and like yes, maybe this is my coffee mug, but also. I have another one if you need it, I'm very happy to share that with you, right? And so, yeah, I think it's.
Speaker 2:I am appreciating the sense of balance. Maybe it's a good reminder for me too. So we need to create a store online of only children. So it says this is my coffee mug, Don't touch it.
Speaker 3:But it comes with another one and like and this is the one you can borrow.
Speaker 5:Yeah, you can use this one. Yeah, but only for coffee. Don't put tea in it, that might just be my OCD.
Speaker 2:That's a different, that's a different.
Speaker 4:what's that, jen? I'm saying that not to change the subject like a crazy person, but I think that in the in the air right now in the world not necessarily in one part of the world more than the other I think the idea of having one child sounds very dangerous. Anything happens to your kid, there goes your lineage, there goes your empire, your legacy. And so I think, with the current political climate and just in general social climate, fertility rate lower than ever. I actually didn't know that we have dipped in fertility more than ever before in history, to the point where, you know, girls are getting their periods so much sooner and so much earlier than normal. So something's changing, something's shifting in the world and I think right now, the way that I would look at an only child situation as a parent would be my goodness, anything happens to my kid, I'm left with no one, I'm left with nothing. But again, that's a selfish way of thinking about having kids.
Speaker 5:only child, that's really that's really interesting because I was actually thinking the opposite from a just a climate perspective.
Speaker 5:I mean, we're, you know, we're all within within a certain generation and I think that that there's unique challenges that come with being an only child, because I think that it was one of the first generations to really have this large population of only children. Right Before the 90s, before the 80s, there really was very little only children, but now you see it much more, and I do wonder if that comes with different challenges or less challenges, things that may not be relevant to new only children and to the economic situation. I was listening to this podcast the other day called it Sucks to Be 33, was the theme of it, which is basically like economically, I mean, we're just in the worst situation possible, and so I do wonder, like, what does that? How does that impact this conversation? You know, is this like why? I mean, do you guys know, like, what was the impetus of of you guys being an only child? Was that a choice or or was it? Was it not a choice?
Speaker 2:no, my parents couldn't replicate, couldn't, couldn't have other children, and this is, uh, you know the 70s because I'm old, um, so there there was no like ivf or any of that stuff, so it just turned out that way a little overshare right now, but again, this conversation is just unlocking stuff.
Speaker 4:I don't know if it's because I've been doing a lot of shadow work lately, but it's definitely working.
Speaker 4:I was the winning sperm that made it through the obstacle of uh, making it through the canal to towards life uh and and I mean that in the kind of deep and heavy like domestic violence, lots of socioeconomic stressors going on, a lot of violence around where I was born. When I was born, even politically, who was not supposed to be and bear with me here, aborted Because I was supposed to have actually other brothers and sisters. But I actually know for a fact that that didn't happen for different family reasons and how interesting that that would happen in the 80s and 90s because that was, I don't know better or worse.
Speaker 4:Back then. I don't know if better is the word, more accessible, maybe, uh, but yeah, interesting what about you, courtney, were you like?
Speaker 2:do you know if your parents wanted to make siblings um?
Speaker 3:well. So it's not really my story to tell, so I'm not gonna really go into it, but a matter, a mix of health and choice okay, because I, because I think the other part too is we're all in the northeast.
Speaker 2:I know, uh, not originally, jim, and I'm certainly not originally from this country, but we're all in the northeast. And you look at the history of the northeast, and the irish catholics in particular, as well as the italians that came over, and yes, if you think I'm picking only on those two races, believe me, I pick on every race equally. But I think, at the end of the day, I think that what I look at is that we're not. You know, if you're from the Northeast, you know the phenomenon of Irish twins and if you're not from the Northeast, irish twins means that kids who are born nine to 10 months apart, which they're called Irish twins.
Speaker 2:And I don't know if we went from this extreme of having kids and having eight, nine, 10 because of the you know my, my grandmother, and she's no longer of this world. She gave birth to eight kids. Six survived, you know, and I know it's French Catholic, but they're as scary as the Irish, if you ask me. But at the end of the day, I do. Do you think it's more of like that whole this is? I think it's a phenomenon we see more and more is that pendulum going from eight, nine kids to make sure we survive to one or none, and this is I don't know if maybe that's also part of it. I know it's a bigger historical conversation than we can possibly have here, but I I'd like to think that that plays a factor. What do you guys think?
Speaker 3:I definitely think there's a financial piece in play right now. The people that I talk to right now who are having just one child also ease of life and wanting to do more with life than just have a child and.
Speaker 3:I'm not saying that lightly just have a child, but, like, um, we also want to have a child and travel. Or we want to have a child and we both have our own businesses, and, um, I think there's a more holistic look at life. Um, we also have more people who are choosing to not have children. Steve, like you were saying, one or none? Um, I myself, if I do ever have a child, I think I would only have one, even knowing what it's like to be an only child and the pros and cons that come with it. So I don't know exactly why the pendulum is swinging this way now, but I but I see it capitalism.
Speaker 4:I think it's the way we handle our farming, for everything from pesticides to the hormones that we add to our food, that then affect overall fertility rates. And when, uh, you know, puberty happens in different people, which then affected the development of a lot of kids, like now, we're saying, like, well, the new 18 is like 26, 27. The pandemic had a lot to do with that, of course factors, but, like from an evolutionary perspective, I think that what our forefathers were focused on was right, spread it wide, uh, and that makes sense, maybe not from a financial standpoint, now that capitalism has made it much harder and a much more toxic, literally, environment, uh, you know why would we want to have 10, 10 people running around with us all the time? It sounds very stressful to me, uh, but, but at the same time, birth control, the use of birth control, right, like as a choice, when it was not a choice.
Speaker 4:For example, puerto Rico in the 50s and 60s, when, you know, hysterectomy, hysterectomies were being performed and Planned Parenthood, began their practices by dispersing birth control before we really even understood, and that had a huge effect. Why? Because Puerto Rican women were known to be people who had more kids than usual. That's still kind of, I think, the misconception right now. But yeah, so it's interesting because, from an evolutionary standpoint, the body wants what it wants, but we're not there yet, and also who the heck wants that.
Speaker 5:Well, I mean to either expand on that or or to counter it. I don't know which one this goes to, but the utilization of humans is very different than it used to be. So humans are not as important in achieving tasks than they were before, and so you don't need as many of them, right? Because you can continue to live your life as an adult human without having to you know, have, have the kids, do, do farm work or, you know, support you, support you over time, like you know, and I I know that that's one thing that I think that we probably all share is is, when our parents get older, like that burden of being the one who is responsible.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I don't know that that felt like a weird tangent, but yeah, no, that's the utilization of humans, I think is has decreased significantly over time and it will continue to um and so what's that?
Speaker 4:just industrialization, right, the effects of things that have happened, uh, over time, especially since the 30s to now, from gender roles changing or evolving, that's a. That's a really good point. Feeling the burden of their, of their not creator, that's a really good point. Feeling the burden of their not creator that's a weird word but of their parents, of caring for their parents, and we know we're all going to descend into some type of old age or sickness or illness, stuff like that, and we can prevent that as much as possible. But a lot of people and this kind of bothers me kind of, doesn't they always say well, you got to have kids so that there's somebody there to take care of you later. I know plenty of people with tons of kids with no help. From a selfish single child, only child standpoint it is to think of To be by yourself at the end.
Speaker 2:Well, that's a happy thought there.
Speaker 3:That's my biggest fear. I'll bring that up with my therapist later this week apparently you know it's, it's something that I you know.
Speaker 2:I talked about my grandmother and having a large family. My grandmother was paralyzed half her body was paralyzed from a stroke, and we had to make difficult decisions. Being an only child and my mom being the new matriarch, at that point we were able to be us against the family, which probably affected the family, but I also maybe the independence of my own. Being an only child, I had no problem, kind of my making a harder decision. That wasn't something to me, like everyone says. It was about me and I made the decision and this and that. But no, we didn't want her to suffer and she never wanted to live in a nursing home. And, yes, that was a tough decision. It wasn't really respected by a whole lot of people, but I truly couldn't give a shit, because that's the good part of being an only child with my father who is we never figured out, we'll say cancer, but he had cancer pretty much everywhere anywhere you can name in your body. He had cancer in there, probably when you smoked since 14, in your 70s. I can't remember how old he was, but in his 70s, yeah, that, yeah, that's what happens. And you know, it was me and my mom to make the decision and in some ways I am so happy I had no other siblings to fight with. I know that sounds absolutely terrible, but I really don't care.
Speaker 2:And again, maybe there is some advantages to being an only child because I didn't have to consult with anyone. Me and my mom were on the same page right away. And, yes, you know, is it still bring tears to my eyes. Yeah, I love my dad and you know that's. He was an only child. I was. I'm the fourth generation only child. In my side of the family I had two children, wow. So you know there are some things that are difficult being an only child, but I think that the gifts that we get from it is also kind of like what makes like I, what I like to remember also. Well, on that happy note about death and being only children and all that, I think this is a good place to wrap up so that everybody leaves on a happy, high note. What I'd like to do is to go around the room and let's start with Jan Anything you want to tell us about your work, what you're doing right now, anything like that.
Speaker 4:We are hiring actually at Aon Counseling. We're looking for independently licensed therapists and now LCSWs and LMHCs. And LSWs and people who are pre-independent licensure can now bill commercial insurances. It just changed, thank goodness, so we are expanding in that way and also if you're interested in telehealth services or in-person services, please reach out to us at getaeonhelpcom All right.
Speaker 2:So getaeonhelpcom, all right, please go there. I can vouch for Jen, knowing her personally for a long time, love her. We're working on, hopefully, a project together that really can't share right now, but still I haven't forgotten about you, jen. Just remember that, brody, anything you want to plug.
Speaker 5:I'll just plug Coa Health. So we're a global company. Our entire amazing team is based out of Barcelona, spain, making sure that everybody has the care that they need from a mental health perspective for for whatever purposes that you may encounter. So you know, zero, zero costs out of pocket to to the employees, and so we're we're expanding there.
Speaker 2:Can you give us a way to reach you or?
Speaker 5:reach anyone at the company. Yeah, always feel free to find me on LinkedIn. I am always on LinkedIn. It's just slash Brody Clemmer, but the company is coahealthcom and you can find it coahealth on any of the social channels.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you so much, and I can go on and on about the importance of healthy mental health at work and something that I I value in my work with first responders in particular. So it's not about trauma all the time. Courtney, I know that in a couple of weeks you're going to have another guest coming in.
Speaker 3:Yes, so I've had the honor of being a guest host for Steve's podcast focusing more on the expressive arts therapy. So dance therapy, art therapy, music therapy, expressive therapy as a whole, drama therapy. So a new episode with a music therapist is coming out in a couple weeks. It'll be great.
Speaker 2:Well, you guys listen for that, but I want to thank you for being so selfless with your time today. I know that you're all introverts, so that's really helpful to me and I felt a little less lonely with this. So a little bow on the whole conversation. Well, that completes Episode 148. Brody, jen and, of course, courtney, thank you so much. Hope you enjoyed it. For Episode 149, we will be looking at a new project I'm involved with and I'm very excited about the military and mental health and I this podcast on your favorite platform.
Speaker 1:A glowing review is always helpful and, as a reminder, this podcast is for informational, educational and entertainment purposes only. If you're struggling with a mental health or substance abuse issue, please reach out to a professional counselor for consultation. If you are in a mental health crisis, call 988 for assistance. This number is available in the United States and Canada.