When silence is no longer an option, the voice of change rings out. Join us as we sit down with Austin Ives and Justin Jacobs of Mindstrong Guardians, who channel their own battles with mental health into a force for good within the military and first responder communities. They're not guests; they're beacons of hope, guiding veterans like Justin, who after decades in the Coast Guard, now dedicates his life to coaching others through their transitions. And warriors like Austin, who openly shares his fight with PTSD and depression, revealing the lifelines of coping strategies and peer support that have saved him.
Navigating the stormy seas of trauma, especially for those in roles as demanding as the Coast Guard, can feel like an endless battle. But in our heartfelt discussion, we uncover the silent epidemic of cumulative stress and the urgent need for ongoing mental health intervention. It's not just about having someone to talk to; it's about building a continuum of care that starts from day one of service. Listen as we honor the history and sacrifices of our first responders, and recognize the invaluable skills, like active listening, they carry forward into future endeavors, transforming pain into purpose.
We wrap up with an eye-opening look at the evolution of Mindstrong Guardians' mission to reshape mental health support for those who've served. Rejecting the stigma associated with seeking help, Austin, Justin, and their partner, Stephen Chamberlain, share an inspiring vision for mental wellness that defies traditional boundaries. The shift from a not-for-profit mindset to a more sustainable for-profit model, influenced by the wisdom of Admiral Thad Allen, underlines their commitment to authentic, relatable programs promoting post-traumatic growth. These stories aren't just shared; they're a rallying cry for a cultural shift where mental health is as prioritized as physical fitness.
Go check out the website at https://mindstrong-guardians.com/
When silence is no longer an option, the voice of change rings out. Join us as we sit down with Austin Ives and Justin Jacobs of Mindstrong Guardians, who channel their own battles with mental health into a force for good within the military and first responder communities. They're not guests; they're beacons of hope, guiding veterans like Justin, who after decades in the Coast Guard, now dedicates his life to coaching others through their transitions. And warriors like Austin, who openly shares his fight with PTSD and depression, revealing the lifelines of coping strategies and peer support that have saved him.
Navigating the stormy seas of trauma, especially for those in roles as demanding as the Coast Guard, can feel like an endless battle. But in our heartfelt discussion, we uncover the silent epidemic of cumulative stress and the urgent need for ongoing mental health intervention. It's not just about having someone to talk to; it's about building a continuum of care that starts from day one of service. Listen as we honor the history and sacrifices of our first responders, and recognize the invaluable skills, like active listening, they carry forward into future endeavors, transforming pain into purpose.
We wrap up with an eye-opening look at the evolution of Mindstrong Guardians' mission to reshape mental health support for those who've served. Rejecting the stigma associated with seeking help, Austin, Justin, and their partner, Stephen Chamberlain, share an inspiring vision for mental wellness that defies traditional boundaries. The shift from a not-for-profit mindset to a more sustainable for-profit model, influenced by the wisdom of Admiral Thad Allen, underlines their commitment to authentic, relatable programs promoting post-traumatic growth. These stories aren't just shared; they're a rallying cry for a cultural shift where mental health is as prioritized as physical fitness.
Go check out the website at https://mindstrong-guardians.com/
Hi and welcome to Finding your Way Through Therapy. A proud member of the PsychCraft Network, the goal of this podcast is to demystify therapy, what can happen in therapy and the wide array of conversations you can have in and about therapy Through personal experiences. Guests will talk about therapy, their experiences with it and how psychology and therapy are present in many places in their lives, with lots of authenticity and a touch of humor. Here is your host, steve Bisson.
Speaker 2:Salut, mes amis, hello, my friends. Welcome to episode 149 of Finding your Way Through Therapy. If you haven't listened to episode 148, go back and listen. Episode 149 of Finding your Way Through Therapy. If you haven't listened to episode 148, go back and listen. It's about only children, the challenges, the good stuff, the bad stuff, what AI says about us, but please go back and listen.
Speaker 2:Courtney, jen and Brody were awesome, but episode 149 will be with two individuals that I'm working with, hopefully on a regular basis very soon. Austin Ives is one of them and Justin Jacobs is the other. They both work with Mindstrong Guardians and we're going to be talking about military support for mental health and how important it is. Let's talk about Justin. Justin is a retired Coast Guard officer that served 22 years in 45 different countries, lived on all four American coasts, and, after retiring from the Coast Guard, justin chose coaching as his next profession. It takes great joy in helping to unlock the true potential of individuals that have possibly have some restrictions in their success because of what they've done, and ultimately makes them live their life to the fullest. He's also a father, lives in Springfield, virginia, and has two sons, 17 and 27,. And that's for Justin. Austin is a retired Coast Guard veteran with PTSD and major depression disorder I think he's going to talk about that largely stemming from his time at the CG Search and Rescue for over a decade. Through different therapies, medication, peer support, he's learned to live with those challenges and co-founded this business that we're going to talk about, by Strong Guardians to innovate mental health tools for the military and everything else that goes with that, especially with first responders, which is, you know, near and dear to my heart. Today, austin is joining us with his living experience and as one of the three co-founders of this company.
Speaker 2:So I hope you enjoyed the interview. I think it's going to be great. So here it is. Before we go to the interview, please listen to this very important message from freeai GetFreeai. Yes, you've heard me talk about it previously in other episodes, but I'm going to talk about it again because GetFreeai is just a great service. Imagine being able to pay attention to your clients all the time instead of writing notes and making sure that the note's going to sound good. And how are you going to write? Writing notes and making sure that the note's gonna sound good, and how are you gonna write that note? And things like that. Getfreeai liberates you from making sure that you're writing what the client is saying, because it is keeping track of what you're saying and will create, after the end of every session, a progress note. But it goes above and beyond that. Not only does it create a progress note, it also gives you suggestions for goals, gives you even a mental status if you've asked questions around that, as well as being able to write a letter for your client to know what you talked about. So that's the great, great thing. It saves me time, it saves me a lot of aggravation and it just speeds up the progress note process so well, and for $99 a month. I know that that's nothing. That's worth my time. That's worth my money, you know. The best part of it too is that if you want to go and put in the code Steve50, when you get the service at the checkout code is Steve50, you get $50 off your first month and if you get a whole year, you save a whole 10% for the whole year. So again, steve50 at checkout for getfreeai. We'll give you $50 off for the first month and, like I said, get a full year, get 10% off, get free from writing notes, get free from always scribbling while you're talking to a client and just paying attention to your client. So they went out, you went out, everybody wins and I think that this is the greatest thing. And if you're up to a point where you got to change a treatment plan, well, the goals are generated for you. So getfreeai code Steve50 to save $50 on your first month.
Speaker 2:Well, hi everyone, welcome to episode 149. You know, this is an episode that's very important to me. You've heard a few episodes on first responders. You've certainly heard me talk about the armed forces in particular. Also and this is just an organization that you know I feel like very close to, and I'm not quite part of it yet, but we're hoping I will be part of it and, uh, the mindstrong guardians and I have two great guests that are already part of my strong guardians. They want to talk a little bit about what they're doing, as well as a couple of more things. But welcome, uh, justin jacobs and austin ives. Welcome to finding your way through therapy. Thanks, steve, thanks d, but welcome, justin Jacobs and Austin Ives. Welcome to Finding your Way Through Therapy. Thanks, steve, thanks, steve. I start off the show with two basic questions. The first question I ask everyone is how about you tell us a little bit about yourself? So how about we start with Justin on that one?
Speaker 3:Yeah so 22-year Coast Guard veteran that got out in 2022 and decided I couldn't work for anybody else ever again, so I instead decided to go start my own business as a life coach and specifically helping veterans both do their job better while they're in the service and then, as they're getting out, helping them figure out how to transition successfully to the civilian world and find work that continues to want them to wake up in the morning, and so I've been doing that for about the past two years.
Speaker 2:That's great and you're enjoying it so far.
Speaker 3:I think that it's exactly what I should be doing. I love coaching, I love helping people have light bulb moments, and I get a lot of satisfaction out of seeing them grow through the process.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you for your service, number one. Number two appreciate the coaching. The more coaches we have to help the mental health people. We hopefully will bring that up a little later on, but that's so important, so thank you. Thank you, austin. How about you introduce yourself? Sure? Thanks, steve.
Speaker 4:So I've been married about 25 years, about to have two girls in college, and over the past 21 years the Coast Guard had sent us all over, had wonderful assignments on the Gulf Coast, east Coast, great Lakes, but when I retired two years ago it was with service-connected PTSD and major depressive disorder all from my time in search and rescue over a decade ago that only surfaced about five months before retirement Never even knew I was carrying this subconscious debt of emotional trauma for 10 plus years until I started to slow down, delegate things, prepare for retirement, and my therapist told me that's when that creates space in the brain for all those repressed and internalized emotions and experiences to come forward.
Speaker 4:And so, yeah, so it's been a, it's been a challenge. These last two years been in different kinds of therapies. Therapies as you alluded to. We started a business called Mindstrong Guardians which basically models what peer support can look like for our audiences, which up until now has been mostly Coast Guard units but, as Justin said, very directly applicable for first responders as well. And so that's what we've been focusing on, and kind of using our experience in the Coast Guard but also just with life, to really help military and first responders improve mental health outcomes for their members.
Speaker 2:Welcome and thank you for sharing that and thank you for your service, also really appreciate it.
Speaker 2:As a therapist who's worked with trauma for many years, including with first responders, one of the things I kind of tell people it's usually not the first trauma that screws you up, it's the 27th one, and I say 27 just by saying a number.
Speaker 2:And I also, when I have individuals who are getting ready to retire out of first responders or the armed forces in general, I'm like don't come to me. Six months prior. We got to start doing the work about a year before and just because you need to prepare people for that, because it is a change, there's a lot of stuff that comes back about your service and you know not because of anything else, but you know you see a lot of screwed up stuff and, particular before the interview, we were having a pre-interview and you were talking about it. Maybe you can talk a little more about that either, or it doesn't matter who brings it up, but being a Coast Guard of all the armed forces, they're essentially the first responders of, you know, the DOD. Can you tell us more about why that perception sometimes gets lost? Whoever wants to go? Justin?
Speaker 4:Well, I'll take a first step, just because it's front of my mind. But we straddle this line between military and first responders, and so we don't fall squarely into the military because Coast Guard also has civil law enforcement authority as well as military mission, and we're the only federal agency that straddles the line like that. So we don't fall squarely into the military because we are first responders. We don't fall squarely as first responders because we have military authorities as well, and so because of that, the Coast Guard really doesn't have its own kind of organization, as do the other services, as do police, fire fraternities, things like that, where we feel totally comfortable within our own space. Other organizations always welcome the little coasties in and say, yes, you can join us and be part of it, and you know, but we don't have. We don't have our own, and it's because we kind of straddle this line, almost as if we don't really know what side we're on.
Speaker 4:But, I'll let Justin go ahead and share your thoughts there.
Speaker 2:So that little no man's land area, but yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean the Coast Guard is an organization that was cobbled together in 1915 from a half dozen or more agencies that were separate at the time, and you know we've been under the Department of Treasury, department of Transportation, now Department of Homeland Security.
Speaker 3:So nobody in the government really knows where we belong either. But you know, I think first and foremost we are a first responder organization. We do search and rescue, we do counter migrant, we do counter drug, we have law enforcement authorities, we have, you know, humanitarian missions, but when war starts, the Coast Guard's there. We've been in every war since the country was founded, and so it's this difficult piece of each day. We're going out and doing really difficult missions that lead to operational stress and trauma, that lead to operational stress and trauma. We're also training for future wars to go alongside our DOD brothers and sisters and fight when we need to fight. And so as a small organization that kind of has this difficult place of figuring out exactly who are we and where do we fit, we also are doing the job every single day and we're being exposed to stuff that we're not prepared to handle, just like the first responders you know, serving in EMT and fire and police.
Speaker 4:Yeah, you know, steve, your question or statement earlier about, you know it's not usually the one and done trauma that really gets you. It's the 27th that representative of of what coast guards men and women are exposed to. So my trauma is from doing 30 next of kin notifications and you know some just being extremely difficult involving children and uh so when you said 27,.
Speaker 2:I'm like, yeah, that's that's spot on and I think that that's what you were. You know both. Both alluded to is that the, the operational stress. I like that word because it really is the operational stress that really just builds up and I think in the longterm, you know, maybe, if I could turn to you, Justin, a little bit, you know talking about this operational stress and the stuff that you did in the Coast Guard, how did that prepare you to be a coach nowadays?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think that the work that I did in the Coast Guard was a slightly different flavor from Austin's. So Austin responded to the bad thing after it happened. I tried to stop the bad thing from happening and so I didn't have as many opportunities to get exposed to the operational stress that he did. But I worked alongside those folks and when the really bad thing happened, you know it's all hands on deck, we're all working together to try to respond to whatever emergency situation we're dealing with. But as a person who was kind of on the sidelines watching other people do that, I learned how I could step in and assist them and kind of be a person to serve as a confidant or serve as another set of eyes to help them see things differently, to process them differently. And as I got into the coaching space, I realized that I did not know how to listen.
Speaker 3:Well, becoming a coach and going through the formal training and actually listening with the intent to hear what's not being said, the subtext, the stuff that's underneath the you know, the surface, helped me to realize that when folks are coming to you and telling you this is my problem, you, this is my problem. You know the bathroom remodel. It's been going on six months and I'm having trouble, you know, getting it to finish up. Well, maybe three to six sessions later. It's not the bathroom remodel, it's the fact that you can't stand your spouse, you know, or whatever else and so being the leader in the organization that helped me to respond to emergencies quickly helped me, I think, as a coach, to listen more intently to what's really going on, what's really the issue that we're talking about right now, and then reflect that back to the person so that they could see it differently.
Speaker 2:Yes, the reflective listening is so important and you know for the record, just for anyone who's listening to this podcast most of the time the presenting problem that people come in with is not what we'd end up discussing by the third or fourth session. Most of the time, 95% of the time Does it happen that it's straight up that? Sure, regularly it's not. You know, and my experience also maybe you can speak to this too, austin is that you know someone came in with X, y, z due to being in the service or being a first responder. Then it brings up oh, but that story and that story and how that affected their life at home and things like that. So sometimes it's also what you present with is also bringing back up the 27 or so things that came from the past. I don't know if that's your experience, austin, if that happened to you or yeah, interesting.
Speaker 4:I was sitting at my desk one day, I was typing up an email, I think it was, and I just started crying and kind of braced myself at my desk. I'm like, oh my gosh, why am I crying? I had no idea, no idea why I was crying. And then, um, it was the next day, I was mowing my lawn. I started crying again, no idea why, and then that it started happening every day, and then it started happening twice a day, and then the nightmares started coming every night, very, very intense.
Speaker 4:And by this and by this time I had a pretty good idea of what was happening to me, although I still wasn't sure. All the dreams focused around drowning and family friends, my dog, it's like I even started dreaming about individual cases. I even started dreaming about individual cases and so I thought I knew what was going on. And it got so bad, steve, that you know I had the suicide ideations, I had the hallucinations and I finally called CG Support, which is the Coast Guard's kind of primary organization where, where you know, you can call and be connected with a therapist or for a certain number of sessions, and they, they have other services too. But I reached out and, um, just crying so hard I could barely get the words out and describing what I was going through.
Speaker 4:And and the therapist who had specialty in trauma specialty in trauma and she said. She said it sounds like you're starting with PTSD and and depression. She said you need medical attention. So first thing tomorrow I want you to go to the coast guard clinic and ask to see a doctor and so that's how it started with me and there were all all kinds of symptoms and manifestations in between. You know, then and there.
Speaker 2:So I'm not sure that answered your question, steve, but that's no, that's how I think it absolutely did, because I think that the other part too is you know and this goes to a little bit of both of you, because I'm not in the service obviously one of the things that I've heard from my service men and women that I've served um as a therapist, they said the making that phone call is one of the hardest things to do because it shows vulnerability, and when you're in the service, showing vulnerability is the kiss of death. No pun intended, I promise, but both of you, I want both of you to answer that question. Do you feel that that's probably one of the biggest barriers that people face when they have a mental health crisis or situation when they're in the services?
Speaker 3:Particularly, we'll talk about the Coast Guard, obviously- yeah, and in fact that's one reason why we formed the company is to help to remove that stigma.
Speaker 3:It took us getting out of the organization and reflecting on our experience while in it to realize that once you join the Coast Guard and you get used to that tempo of operations and that stress level, it becomes your new normal. But it's not normal and if it's not addressed in the moment when you're experiencing that operational stress, it will turn into trauma and then it could turn into what Austin had to go through as he started ramping down from that constant stress and that constant workload. And so one of the major focuses of the work that we're trying to do is to make having mental health conversations as routine as talking about running around the track or doing push ups and sit ups just another part of your, your overall health before I, right before I retired, and after I had been dealing with this for several months, I wrote a note to all my colleagues, so senior officer colleagues, across the service, and there there were probably 50 or 60 on the on the note.
Speaker 4:But I just kind of came out to them and told them what I was going through, because we've all held the same kinds of jobs and I wanted to give people a heads up that say, hey, this is a potential outcome for you as well. So you know, while you're in, start taking care of your mental health. You know, while you're in, start taking care of your mental health. So I sent this note out Within the next few months. I got just about 100 responses because I asked those unit commanders to propagate the email. So it went to all kinds of people everywhere across the service, got about 100 responses. If they were colleagues, they got back and said Austin, I've been in therapy for two years now, off books, I don't want anybody to know about it. And so why were they telling me that they're admitting career fear? So these are senior officers who are competing for really tough assignments, consequential assignments and, just as you said, no one wants to be viewed as vulnerable they want to want to be known as having reached out themselves for help.
Speaker 4:I also got emails from like very, very junior folks. E3 and one of our command centers wrote to me and said, sir, he was in the comms unit. He said I, really I heard this, you know, heartbreaking mayday call the other week and it's, it's really stuck with me. And you know, he said I've never heard a captain come out and talk about this stuff before, you know, and so had a conversation with him. So there's um, the. The stigma is real, although it's gotten better since justin and I were in. It's gotten a lot better since we were in, but there's still a way to go and the career fear is there. And even though the military in general has come out with guidance saying, hey, if you seek therapy, even if you're on medications, you won't lose your clearance over this, as many times as that's been communicated, there's still a steep misconception about that.
Speaker 4:The number of people that lose their clearance over mental health issues is a fraction of a percent.
Speaker 2:It's it's very, very small you know, and I think of it as we talked about generational stuff. I think that you look at the older generation, that was a fear that was unfortunately valid in the time. If you reached out for help, it was not always seen as strong. I could be wrong, but that's what the older military personnel tell me, and I don't mean old like 75, 80, I'm talking about 45, 50. Um, we're not talking about old people per se, I'm just saying that older and I, and I think that that's changed and I think that the one thing that you know, you know I, I can't wait to hear more about you know, I know a lot about Mindstar Guardians, but I'd love to hear more.
Speaker 2:But one of my missions with most of my clients is I talk to them about you had a stress today. Let's work on it for the next couple of weeks so that it stays acute stress disorder and it doesn't stay with you for the rest of your life. You don't address it today, which is fine. You're going to talk about that 27 stressors, bringing up the last 26. And I think that's an imagery that people can get behind and I certainly talk about that with my clients.
Speaker 3:Yeah, one of the things that we realize about our company is that as a non-therapist you know non-practitioners of mental health stuff we can't come in and do therapy. What we want to do is we want to come in and we want to say, hey, we were in the organization that you're in now. We've lived the stress of that job. We're telling you now that if you don't talk about this with a professional, that it's going to bite you in the butt later in life. And so we're trying to, as easily as we can and as gently as we can, tell them that old bootstrap mentality is not sufficient anymore. You can't just tough it out. You've got to find a way that you can talk about this stuff with people you trust professionals if they need to be, so that this doesn't happen to you. And all the work that we're trying to do really is preventative. If you've reached a point where you've had a mental break, where you need to see the therapist, go see that expert right now. Go see that professional, because that's not us.
Speaker 4:But just to kind of emphasize the point of operational stress and trauma, several years ago the Coast Guard partnered with the VA and several major universities and they did a study of mental health outcomes at Coast Guard boat stations.
Speaker 3:I think we have what do we have, Justin?
Speaker 4:We have about 160 or 180 boat stations, I forget. It was across a wide swath of boat stations, and that's where the rubber meets the road for your audience. That's where the search and rescue happens, that's where a lot of the migrant interactions happened hurricane response, things like that. And, to sum up, what the researchers found was that serving at a Coast Guard boat station has similar, comparable mental health outcomes to those of larger military services returning from combat deployment. So no one ever tells you that when you join. And so that was a mic drop moment for me, as all this was was coming out and manifesting. I started doing some, some research and reading just to educate myself on what was happening. I found this study, legit study, and, um, I was like, oh my gosh, similar, comparable mental health outcomes to those returning from combat deployment.
Speaker 4:And so I think that drives home the importance of reaching out when you need to, or even beforehand.
Speaker 2:I mean, I'll tell you this is not necessarily the mission of you guys, but I'll tell you. My mission as a human being and part of why I do this podcast and why I do my job, is one day. I want it to be that you have a physical a year and you go see your mental health counselor once a year. Even if everything's going great, you just go see him. Hey, everything's good, everything's fine, great, see you in a year. And that's my goal in life, so that we make it as common as it is for a physical. When you go for a physical, no one goes. Oh my God, I got to go for a physical. When you go for a physical, no one goes. Oh my god, I gotta go for a physical. No, they just go to a freaking physical. I want one day to go.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, it's my time to go see the shrink. Even if you use pejorative terms and I don't care, shrink is not pejorative to me, but for some people it is. Oh, I gotta go see my shrink. Believe me, I'm always happy because people come in and they go hey, I haven't seen you in a while. It been six months. I just can't coming in for my oil change Perfect. How's the oil? It's pretty good, blah, blah, blah Great. See you in the six months to a year, and I think that that's a little bit of the mission that I hear from you guys, that basically we need to break down the stigma but also normalize that mental health is as important as physical health and that's why I love this company overall.
Speaker 4:Personally, to elaborate on that. Steve, we created an analogy. Most people in the first responder communities have heard of personal protective equipment, ppe, and so militaries, and Coast Guard included, normally do a very good job at providing our service members PPE to protect their physical well-being. So we give our marine inspectors four gas meters, we give our boarding teams Kevlar and you know helmets for the boat crew and just all these different things to protect their physical being. But what do we really do to prepare I'm speaking about all military now what do we do to prepare members for the mental aspect? What mental PPE do we provide to our service members that can prepare you for outcomes like those of larger services returning from combat deployment, like we just said. And so I think the services are in general. They've struggled with that in the past. I think it's gotten a lot better in recent history.
Speaker 2:The mental PPE. I think that mental pp will be very good and I like that analogy. I'll probably steal that from uh you guys, if that's okay. Well, since I hopefully will be part of these guys, I guess I will not be stealing anything. I'll be part of the mission, uh.
Speaker 2:But um, all joking aside, I mean, like you know, we talked a lot about my you know Mindstrong Guardians and we talked about a little bit of where you guys are working and what you want to do. But how did it evolve to this point? I mean, it just didn't wake up one day and say this is going to be a great idea, let's do it, because this is not a one night like. I don't like when people think about everything as overnight success or overnight ideas, because there's no such thing in my opinion. So maybe both of you can talk a little bit to that evolution and how we got to a point where I know that there's been events in March and April of 2024 that you've just participated in. So I would love to hear a little more about that evolution.
Speaker 4:So I'll start and bring us up to a point and then kick it over to Justin.
Speaker 4:So I know, steve, I mentioned, all this started to manifest for me five months before retirement, spent the last five months of active duty basically in bed on meds in therapy, very isolated. But during that time I had time for reflection and you know, I thought this. And after I learned I wasn't alone from sending out that email and I'm getting those responses, I thought my gosh, like I have to do something to let people know this is a potential outcome of the very, very tough jobs the nation asks us to do. And so I started talking to some colleagues and we had a fabulous commander up in Anchorage, alaska, where Justin served for several years, and she was very forward leaner. Her name was Leanne Lusk she's an advisor to us now and she invited me up to Anchorage to talk about my experience of this kind of cumulative emotional trauma that had built up over time for me. And so we put together a panel and on the panel we also had a PhD psychologist, we had the unit chaplain, we had um, two others call in, one of whom was um, our primary therapist now. Uh, live Landry and um.
Speaker 4:And so we had this discussion for a few hours up in Anchorage, alaska, and it was very well received. And so then thinking to myself okay, there's something to this. Having a conversation about this topic is a lot different than new policy or new training. There's got to be something in between there that can really make a difference. And it's having these lived experience conversations and that's what kind of solidified it in my mind.
Speaker 4:After that I was hired to speak to either six or seven different Coast Guard units and so we put together these panels, similar to what we did in Anchorage, and again I'd talk about a lived experience and the therapist would kind of comment from his or her disciplinary lens and experience. And I did that for about a year experience and did that for about a year. And then is when I linked up with Justin and our other partner, steve, and we considered incorporating as a not-for-profit organization to take this further. But we didn't want to cannibalize support that was already being given to the Coast Guard through different means. And we actually got some very sage advice from one of our former commandants, admiral Thad Allen, who said have you considered being a for-profit? And we really hadn't even considered that and I think from there I'll maybe hand it over to Justin on how we went about things.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So, all told, I'd say the process has been about two years in the making. So Austin was my last boss in the Coast Guard. He actually retired me out in May and then the week after I got out, now that I wasn't his subordinate anymore, he decided I could be his friend.
Speaker 3:Before that he was kind of a tight ass and so we went out for a beer and he shared the story with me of what he was going through and, as I had been in training to become a coach, I was kind of in this whole mental awareness, mental attitude, headspace of you know, how do you have conversations about these things, how do you listen intently, how do you help somebody process what they're going through? And we were having conversations about well, how does he go get a job if he can't even get through an interview? And you know he was sharing a lot of deeply personal stuff with me and I'm sorry if I'm kind of speaking out of turn now, austin, but I felt like we were kind of we were working together on trying to see how can we help what he's going through now be of benefit to others in the future, of like.
Speaker 3:Well, let me go share my story as a cautionary tale with folks who are doing the work now so they don't have to go through. What I'm going through Took about 18 months to materialize into programs where we go, and he shares that experience with a clinician who can explain how the brain and the body are taking this stress and turning it into trauma. And then, that's, you know, turning into illness. And then, in the afternoon, after sharing that story, turning it into trauma. And then that's, you know, turning into illness. And then, in the afternoon, after sharing that story, turning that into how can we as lay people in this organization, have conversations about mental health in a way that helps us to process the day-to-day activities we're all experiencing and maybe even help to identify like, hey, Joe and you know, or Jill, aren't doing so hot, Maybe it's time for us to intercede, have a conversation with them and then refer them out to a professional if that's what they need.
Speaker 3:And so, yeah, in March we were able to go and do that and we got great feedback, because what most people said was it's about time we start having these conversations. We've been wanting something like this for years, but nobody knew how to do it. And it's not death by PowerPoint. It's not sitting in a classroom for eight hours just being fed a bunch of you know technical jargon. It's people sharing real, visceral, difficult stories about their experience in the organization, such that people are like, yeah, that's exactly the way I feel. Finally, somebody is telling me something that I understand.
Speaker 4:And I'll just quickly add to that we don't necessarily focus on the trauma itself. I mean, we do discuss it because we explain what we've experienced and we share that, but that's probably 15% of what we discussed. The rest is how we reached out for help, because normally when you sit through one of these you know other types of presentations you get. These are the five ways to be resilient and these are the six ways to do this and these are the numbers to call.
Speaker 4:This is how you reach out for help, but you never hear from somebody who actually picked up the phone and what their thoughts were as they were dialing the number, and so we really that's the kind of lived experience that we really talk about and then your experience in different types of therapies and you know how you develop your own coping strategies and you know how did you apply kind of strengths-based healing techniques and you know what are your, what are some of your lessons learned for others and the organization. So, even though it is a very serious conversation and the part that discusses trauma can be intense, that's the beginning and then we start talking. Trauma can be intense, that's the beginning, and then we start talking really it's more about post-traumatic growth and recovery.
Speaker 2:I like that a lot and I remember one of my military people once said to me you know, you worked in the military. When everything is six points to blank or eight points to blank, there's always a number somehow attached to something instead of real life, real example and real stuff. So wanted to mention that, because you were talking about the six points of resiliency and all that that's. That's not only death by PowerPoints, death by numbers, but that's the military for you, and I'm not putting down the military by any stretch. I understand it's a hard thing, but I always find it funny when I hear numbers. It's the only organization that works like, with numbers all the time, instead of like how about resiliency? Let's talk about it.
Speaker 3:No, what they do better is take a word like resiliency and turn it into an acronym and then give you you know all the words that come off of resiliency.
Speaker 2:That sounds about right actually yeah well, gentlemen, I know that you know this has been going really well. Like I said, you know, kudos to you guys. What's the long-term vision for you guys? I know we didn't put this into questions, but it's like kind of like are we, are we just doing this for the coast guard on for one year, or are we thinking about long-term and expanding it? Or what's the goals for you guys?
Speaker 4:Yeah, that's a great question. Thank you for asking. The vision is to build almost like now he's a military almost like deployable teams where, whether it's military or first responders, we envision being able to construct up a panel engagement which involves the lived experience, discussion and some practical workshops that Justin leads in the afternoon. So it's a day event and of course there are breaks and lunch and things. But we envision having different teams being out at different times putting on these engagements for different military and first responder organizations. And the unique thing about our construct is, you know, I am not the only peer with a lived experience. So if we were to do a firefighting organization, we would do our prep work and identify a firefighter with that same type of operational stress and trauma. We have a process where our clinician vets peers to make sure it's safe for them to present, and so we have this vetting procedures and we have what's the word I'm looking for?
Speaker 1:Protocols I'm sorry. Protocols.
Speaker 4:And so we envision, almost like a plug and play, so we're in the process now of building up a cadre of different types of peers, screening them, training them, getting ready to deploy them and pair them with different clinicians or chaplains or you know whoever it may be, to go and address operational stress and trauma wherever it, wherever it lies really.
Speaker 4:And so, yes, we've started with the Coast Guard, because that is our organization, from which all three of us, the three co-founders, came from. So it's kind of focused on Coast Guard right now. And you know, we have boat stations, we have cutters, we have boat stations, we have cutters, we have air stations, we have special teams, we have, you know, we have all these different types of units, many different types of units. So there's a lot of work to be done in the Coast Guard. And then, of course, you have all the DOD services. And then you know you talk about police departments, fire departments across the US. You know there are other DHS agencies as well, customs and Border Protection, and you know even State Department grand vision that we have these impactful conversations, kind of on demand, where needed, with the right peers that have been screened and trained, with an outstanding clinician to kind of facilitate these conversations and workshops.
Speaker 4:I don't know if you wanted to add anything to that, Justin.
Speaker 3:No, I think that's right. And maybe, just to wrap it up, the protocol allows us to take somebody with street credibility in that organization and place them in a position to tell their story, supported by a clinician and a facilitator, so that that audience says, oh, this person does the work that I do. I know them personally. I can't believe that this is their story. I've never heard it before, probably, but it's exactly what I feel like, it's exactly what I've experienced.
Speaker 3:It's relatable yeah, a fire department, the Marine Corps, any other organization would rather listen to somebody from their organization than some guy from the Coast Guard, right? And so our business is trying to use the best of all resources to maximum effect when we go in to talk to that organization.
Speaker 2:I think that that's what I wanted to make sure that everybody heard, because that's a very important part.
Speaker 2:I have many jokes I can make about the Coast Guard and Marines and stuff like that, but I'm going to hold off those for now.
Speaker 2:We've heard them all, steve, I know, but we've got to be respectful here. We want the Marines to buy into it first and I'm going to hold off on that joke that I wanted to add to that. But anyway, point being is I think that one of the most important things and why the reason why I'm so excited to have at least you know, hopefully a part in this organization in the long term is that lived experience from people who have been there, done that, have a few t-shirts and can tell you from that perspective is probably more important to me than some therapist who goes you know what this is, what PTSD is, compared to acute stresses. Yeah, it's nice to have that experience, but having someone tell you what the real life experience was and how that therapist, counselor, whatever you want to call them, can contribute to the wellness coaching Obviously, I don't want to forget about coaching, but the wellness of those individuals. That's where I feel like my complimentary support will be helpful, but a real life experience, there's nothing like it, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we need the person who is able to explain what that person's story means. As you're saying, it's like this is what stress does to the body. This is what stress does to the brain. This is the reason why so-and-so reacted the way that they did, like oh okay, well, that makes a lot more sense because I heard the story and then I heard the explanation why they responded the way they did, rather than just a powerpoint slide that says stress does this to the body. Well, so what? Let me go do my job right.
Speaker 2:Well, the great thing about where we're at now we're no longer talking about uh, was it a 500 yard glare or whatever they used to call it before we gave it a real name? Um, and I think that you guys are just gonna. You know you're you're just starting, but I can see great things coming and the whole vision is there, and obviously you already know this. We've had private conversations about this, but anything I can do to contribute, I'm more than happy and humble to do so and I really want to thank you for your time today. I really want to thank you for this mission. And how can people find the mindful? Uh, guardians, our mind strong guardians. I'm sorry, sorry, the therapist and me kicked in.
Speaker 3:I'm sorry, mine strong guardians go ahead justin yeah, so, uh, we're on linkedin, uh, we've got a page MindStrongGuardians, and then also our website is wwwmindstrongguardianscom. And uh, we're not out on social networks yet, we're not that cool, but uh, yeah, maybe you're too cool for it yeah, that's right, we're too cool well, gentlemen, thank you very much, Looking forward to having more interactions with you.
Speaker 2:And please, guys, go check out mindstrongguardianscom Very, very important stuff going on right now. So thank you guys. Thank you, Steve. Well, this concludes Episode 149. Austin, Justin, thank you so much for your time. I can't wait for you guys to go to mindstrongguardianscom and see what we're doing and what they're doing. I'm not officially part of the company I shouldn't say we but episode 150 is coming up and 150 will be with lee and and then we're I'm not going to give too much Lee in and she. She's going to be talking about something we're going to be doing in Worcester very soon uh, Worcester, Massachusetts. So please listen to my episode then.
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