Resilience Development in Action
Discover practical resilience strategies that transform lives. Join Steve Bisson, licensed mental health counselor, as he guides first responders, leaders, and trauma survivors through actionable insights for mental wellness and professional growth.
Each week, dive deep into real conversations about grief processing, trauma recovery, and leadership development. Whether you're a first responder facing daily challenges, a leader navigating high-pressure situations, or someone on their healing journey, this podcast delivers the tools and strategies you need to build lasting resilience.
With over 20 years of mental health counseling experience, Steve brings authentic, professional expertise to every episode, making complex mental health concepts accessible and applicable to real-world situations.
Featured topics include:
• Practical resilience building strategies
• First responder mental wellness
• Trauma recovery and healing
• Leadership development
• Grief processing
• Professional growth
• Mental health insights
• Help you on your healing journey
Each week, join our community towards better mental health and turn your challenges into opportunities for growth with Resilience Development in Action.
Resilience Development in Action
E.111 Exploring the World of Holistic Therapy with Chris McDonald
Join us as we embark on an enlightening journey with Chris McDonald, a fellow PsychCraft Network podcaster, holistic therapist, yogi meditation teacher, and author. Our conversation delves into the captivating world of holistic therapy, its intersection with traditional practices, and how it aids in achieving mental resolution and growth. An advocate of yoga and meditation, Chris discloses her favorite holistic routines providing intriguing insights into the life of a holistic therapist.
In the episode, we explore the significance of harmonizing the mind, body, and spirit, and the unique experiences of group therapy. Chris illustrates how these collective sessions pave the way for sharing common struggles and identifying unresolved issues. Get ready for a deep dive into various therapeutic modalities such as breath work, meditation, mindfulness, and the much effective grounding techniques. Discover how these methods can help manage anxiety and trigger a sense of safety in the brain.
We round up our conversation by discussing ways to incorporate meditation and yoga into daily routines to achieve better sleep and relaxation. Chris shares snippets from her podcast and her episode about breathwork as a technique for stress reduction. And don't miss out on our next episode featuring Megan Garvey, where we continue to shed light on mental health and substance abuse issues. Remember, this podcast is for your information and entertainment, helping you better understand and navigate the world of mental health.
Claim your 30 day Aura app pass from Chris McDonald here!
Her podcast can be found here.
The PsychCraft Network of podcasters can be found here.
Hi and welcome to Finding your Way Through Therapy. The goal of this podcast is to demystify therapy, what can happen in therapy and the wide array of conversations you can have in and about therapy Through personal experiences. Guests will talk about therapy, their experiences with it and how psychology and therapy are present in many places in their lives, with lots of authenticity and a touch of humor. Here is your opportunity to learn more about your host, steve Bisson.
Speaker 2:Okay, so I clap for myself. Let me know what you think. But welcome to episode 111. If you haven't listened to episode 110, this was the second part with Lynn Key, who talks about treatment and something that I've done for a long time. I do not work with Lynn, but I have done treatment for many years on sexual abuse, sexual trauma, substance use. So please go listen to it. She's very open and honest. But episode 111 is with Chris McDonald.
Speaker 2:Chris McDonald is someone I met through the Cycraft Network, which I'm part of. She's a holistic therapist, yogi meditation teacher and author. She's certified in brainspotting. She's someone who offers gentle yoga to clients. I hope that she talks about that in her group practice and uses it as treatment for anxiety, depression, trauma and grief in young adults. She also offers therapy for therapists and is a host of the Holistic Counseling Podcast. I will link that in the show notes. Her favorite holistic daily routines include yoga and meditation.
Speaker 2:I'm just looking forward to talking to someone about holistic stuff. As some of you know, I am big on that and I think it's so important to discuss. So here is the interview. Hi everyone, and welcome to episode 111. I'm so excited because Chris McDonald is someone who is part of the Cycraft Network. I had no clue about her podcast and then I jumped on a podcast and now she has at least one more subscriber thanks to me and the Cycraft Network. Free plug, here and now, nothing being told to do. But really there's a lot of great therapists, but easily one of my favorites that I had not discovered until I got on there was Chris's podcast, and so happy that she also voluntarily said that she's going to come on to this podcast, which is really weird to me. But, chris, welcome to Finding your Way Through Therapy.
Speaker 3:Thanks, I'm so glad to be here.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, you're lucky, you get to see the first setup of this, my office slash podcast studio. Hopefully everyone hears me really well. Usually we start off with a few basic questions. The first basic question is tell me a little bit about yourself.
Speaker 3:Sure, so I have, I own a holistic virtual practice, which is online, and we work a lot with young adults with anxiety, depression, trauma. That's usually the age group that I work with the most with. I have one other clinician that works under me, but she's willing to work with some of the older people, so we kind of spread that out a little bit. And I also have a podcast called the Holistic Counseling Podcast. That's geared towards mental health therapists who want to deepen their knowledge of holistic modalities and build their practice with confidence. And I actually, surprisingly, do have a lot of other kinds of listeners.
Speaker 3:I'm learning to Some people that are just curious about I call it holistic curious, curious about holistic modalities in general. I also have I've heard some other people like massage therapist listening some other doctors. So yeah, there's, there's a wide range. I think there too. But yeah, I love everything. Holistic is is one thing that I'm super passionate about and that's what kind of brought me to this podcast, and allowing people to know that these are okay modalities to learn about and integrate into therapy. So it's a little bit different than traditional therapy. So that's one thing I talk about, too, is is the differences in and how that can be integrated into sessions. So so I do help therapists a lot. I offer therapy for therapists and I also teach therapists, so I offer courses for therapists to teach them how to do this, how to use some of these modalities like yoga, breath work, meditation, mindfulness, those kinds of things.
Speaker 2:And I certainly enjoyed a holistic process of your podcast. I listened to it. I. I practice reiki myself, oh nice. I practice Buddhist principles myself. I do breathing mindfulness meditation, all of that, yes, that's not what people would expect from me. I know that and that's fine, think I. People know how I don't keep to one subject but all the time. But I want to hear more. Yeah, we don't just wake up one day and go like, oh, you know what this private holistic that sounds like a good idea.
Speaker 2:It's like people who tell me about substance. Oh, I know Someone wakes up and go yeah, I'm going to get addicted to some some sort of substance. That's what I'm going to do today. So how do we, how do we go from being a therapist to a holistic therapist and have even a podcast and everything else that goes with?
Speaker 3:that it's been a journey, steve, I got to tell you that it's no. There's no way I thought I'd be where I am right now. There's no way years ago. So what? I originally started out as a school counselor so I went into that and what we do in the school system is provide more brief solutions, which means just, you know, short-term problem solving basically, and you know we're we're technically not supposed to provide the quote unquote therapy, but really it is because we would have kids that would stop by, we'd see all school year long. So, but I did find my.
Speaker 3:My journey started with breath work because I had kids that I'd see regularly and they would just struggle with just the problem solving part and they're still like I can't relax, I'm still having difficulty focusing because of the anxiety. So I started using breath work at a teacher retreat I had gone to and I was like whoa, this is really cool. So I started to study it on my own. There were no podcasts then I'm aging myself but there was a lot less resources out there. There wasn't YouTube. So I had books I had bought that I was learning on my own and practicing and it was harder to find trainings then.
Speaker 3:So but once I started to use this and saw the difference with clients and how they're able to regulate their nervous system more, it was amazing. So I really started there and practiced personally and professionally and then just kind of shifted to meditation, started to learn about that. So it's been a gradual process for me. I actually joined a Buddhist group a Sangha we call that and started to meditate with them weekly. That really helped me to get consistent, because I meditate just about every day, do some kind of meditation, and I do yoga most days as well, usually every day, usually for yoga, but meditation sometimes it's hard to do it all. I love all these practices so that's my goal for retirement to be able to do all these every day, to do more of these holistic practices for sure.
Speaker 2:So when you say that you went to the breath and then you got more curious and more curious, I think that that's one of the things that people think we do right, like we're become holistic. So, therefore, you know, we meditate while we're driving and we close our eyes and we do deep breathing, bring our heart beat to two per minute. How do we debunk some of these myths that people think that like because when they hear holistic, I think they expect us that we don't have any emotions, we're always happy, or we're always or Zen right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, not true? Well, I adhere to a lot of these principles. To say that I'm a Zen person, that probably would be quite a lie, because I'm a very passionate person and I think both can coexist. And how do you explain to people that you don't need to be holistic everywhere in your life?
Speaker 3:Oh, no, not at all.
Speaker 2:How do we explain that to people, though, because I think they don't get it?
Speaker 3:I say that's like a continuum right.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:Some people, like I said, are holistic, curious. Maybe they've heard about some of these practices and they're just kind of investigating and there's no judgment either. You don't have to be all in, like me, it's okay. So maybe you just want to learn about one thing and just get more information. Listening to this podcast, you know you're just seeing what's out there. And the same with therapists. If there's any therapists here that are just like what is this holistic therapist business and how is this different, right, and how can this make a difference for people, myself and clients?
Speaker 3:Because to me this is, like I said, personal and professional. It's not like, hey, I got therapy sessions, I want to teach them breathwork. No, these aren't practices I do on my own. I embody these for myself and I believe in them. That's why it's so I'm so passionate about it, because it helps me to regulate my anxiety and my issues. No, it's not 100%. Yes, I get anxious, like this morning I was very anxious with some things that came up and a little bit overwhelmed, but I did want back to my breathing before this interview and got myself more regulated so I could focus.
Speaker 3:So it's just having these tools available to you, but just know that you know you don't even have to identify yourself as holistic. I did not identify myself that until I'm trying to think if it was right before I started this podcast that I offered these. But I didn't even call myself a holistic therapist. I just started to embrace that. I got my yoga certification and I didn't call myself a yoga teacher until like a year later. So it's kind of stepping into that role and really feeling it mind, body, spirit For me. That was kind of my process.
Speaker 2:I think that I've identified to the mind, body, spirit process for many, many, many years at this point and I think that that's so important. I think that for me you can get the best mental health treatment in the world, get into the best physical shape in the world If your spirit's not right, does it really matter?
Speaker 3:Nope, and they're all interconnected.
Speaker 2:Right, I mean it's. I know that people use the word soul or religion or stuff like that. I like spirit.
Speaker 3:Spirituality yeah.
Speaker 2:I think it's good to balance all that stuff up, but you brought up a question about your managing your anxiety and holistic stuff really helped. Well, I'm going to twist that question a little bit, because this is a standard question on finding your way through therapy. Have you ever been in therapy? Because you know, when you talk about anxiety, I know sometimes you need help to manage that.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. I've been in therapy a lot. I actually just took group counseling for myself recently, so that was a unique experience as a therapist. I've never done that before. I was a nervous wreck to start this group. I was like, oh my God, and it was virtual. So it's a little of an odd experience, because you see everybody in little squares on your screen and when do we say something? When do I sit back? It was really difficult. It took a while to really feel comfortable, but I appreciated other people it was all therapists in this group, by the way and it took a while for everybody else to get comfortable, and once we got rolling, we were all opening up more. And it was nice, though, because everybody was sharing like how hard it was, even as a therapist, to open up in group.
Speaker 2:Well, I don't think that it because we're therapist. Things are easier for us in therapy?
Speaker 3:No, not at all. Yeah, it was uncomfortable because, especially because in the beginning, like there was a lot of the silence, she would ask her question and for me I was. I felt like I had to break the silence. I was like wait, I got to say something because this is just so uncomfortable it is, it really is.
Speaker 2:But I think it's uncomfortable for silence, but it's also uncomfortable for me, one of the things that I did not think about until someone mentioned it to me. They're like yo, so you do treatment with therapists. I'm like, yeah, aren't you afraid they're analyzing you too? And I'm like, until this moment, no, never thought about it. But does that also play a factor? When you're in a group therapy with a bunch of therapists, you're like am I going to say the right thing? Does that play a factor?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think. Initially, I think it is kind of finding your way through, like you said, finding your way through therapy, finding your way through group therapy, because it's a totally different experience. It's almost like that sensation I raise eyes, are on you right With the video, and it's just a different feeling than individual, I think, and just being open to listening to other people. And yeah, because it's not all about you and the group.
Speaker 2:No, it's not and that's it.
Speaker 3:It's the group process and how are we supporting each other and the group. But I guess the best part for me was the commonalities and just knowing the struggles everybody else has and are similar to mine, so I'm not alone in this. That universality, I think, was what really helped me. And you know it's interesting. So I'm 52 and in my life I had gone to individual therapy but this brought up some things that I didn't even know affected me until now.
Speaker 3:I mean, it took me this long to figure this out. So guess what Therapists are still learning about themselves? To me, it's a lifelong process of growth and understanding and okay. So this is something for my childhood that still impacted me, that I didn't realize till now, but that's okay and this is something that I've identified and have awareness so that I can work on this issue.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Well, I also think that what most people, I broke that little barrier A couple of months ago. I had my people like, oh, it must be great to be your therapist, must be great to have friendships with you or be dating you. And my girlfriend came on to the podcast and a lot of people like, wow, I didn't think it would be that much of a challenge to date a therapist. And I'm like, oh, because I don't have any feelings, because I don't have you have it all together, don't you? Do you?
Speaker 3:No.
Speaker 2:What I'll do. Respect all my psych-craft members. I mean we sit in those meetings and I could clearly tell we don't always all have it together and that's okay and that's cool. For me anyway, it's all absolute.
Speaker 3:We are human. Yes, yeah.
Speaker 2:Do you help your clients sometimes to see as a human? Because for me, one of the hardest, the first thing I ever was told by my intern supervisor and I always remember that I did the interview thing. She asked me how I thought I did this, how I asked all the questions and all that she said to me where the hell were you in that room? Because you just ask questions. You were not there and ever since then I've always integrated myself and I think that's important for people to see us as human beings. Does that happen with you?
Speaker 3:Absolutely, and I don't as a therapist, I'm not into that model of that. We're blanks, like we don't say anything about ourselves. And for me, I use some self-disclosure just to make me more human. And the clients are always like. It's like a sigh of relief almost when I say something or I curse in session and they're just like, they laugh and they're just. It helps them relax and be more of themselves.
Speaker 3:Because I feel like sometimes when people start, they're just like afraid to. They have to put on this role that they can't relax into it and they can't curse if they want to curse. And I think the more that I'm genuine myself, the more they pick up on that. And I think it's okay for therapists to say you know what? I had a really shitty morning, so I'm going to do my best to be present and just, and you know, a lot of times they offer support and you know it's not my session, but I just want to let you know that. But it's okay to let them know that we're not gliding by. I'm just yoga and meditation and everything is peachy keen because we have our struggles too.
Speaker 2:Well, speak for yourself. I'm perfect.
Speaker 3:I know you.
Speaker 2:This is on my desk. I don't know if you can read this, so for those of you on YouTube will love it and see that that's awesome. But my on my desk it says maybe swearing will help, and I've always most people say that makes me comfortable. When I saw it out on your desk because I didn't have to worry about if you're going to be offended, and I think that that's the other part too right, because we, we think our secret. I tell people that the reason why you got to bring yourself into a room as a therapist and for those who want to be blank slates, good for them nothing against them.
Speaker 2:Someone needs that too. But what I say is that when you bring in yourself into the room, it brings out the other person even more. But I think that to me that just gives them that permission to be themselves.
Speaker 3:The permission right and to be vulnerable too. That, oh yeah, I wasn't going to tell you this, but this happened this morning for me too, and for them to connect with that and to understand and I always think it's important for us to be us. Yeah, yeah, and I think, as I've gotten older, that I become more and more myself and more in my own skin, and and I think yoga has helped me to embody myself more just to be more present physically and spiritually too.
Speaker 2:And then my yoga practice, which has suffered recently, certainly has shown. But I also think that meditation and mindfulness is always something that kind of grounds me when I'm having a tough time. Even my my therapist. What he does with me sometimes is that if everything's going hunky dory, he's like let's do some body scans. I'm going to say some comfortable things. I'm going to do a body scan. I know what your experience is what body scans are. But you know, this morning I realized I actually am doing pretty good knock on wood. I'm going to knock on the mic because I think body scan is also part of the holistic stuff that become more mindful and know what's going on with your body.
Speaker 3:Absolutely Just knowing, because sometimes we, if we don't do that, we can disconnect and not really be paying attention to what's going, Cause I know for me if I've done the body scan I'll be like, well, wait, a second. Wait, I do have a lot of tension there in my shoulders and didn't notice that before and it's it's that interception really tuning in, Cause I have a lot of clients that I have a lot of clients with trauma. So they come to me and they're a lot of times disconnected from their body and sensation. So getting them back in the body can help with emotional regulation and being more connected and centered.
Speaker 2:Emotional regulation. That's a very much a therapeutic standpoint, you know, like traditional therapy.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Is that so? You talked about doing that in holistic counseling also, is there any particular big differences between holistic counseling versus I don't know what to call it original or traditional?
Speaker 3:whatever.
Speaker 2:I don't like to play too much semantics either.
Speaker 3:Whatever you want to call it.
Speaker 2:Is there a huge difference between the two?
Speaker 3:I think there's a difference and a lot of people come to me because traditional therapy isn't enough for them. They've tried that route for years and it's just they've only gotten so far. I called the CBT wall the kind of behavioral therapy wall. They can't outthink their trauma or outthink whatever issues going on and they need something more, and it's more. First of all, starting it from a holistic perspective, looking at the whole person. Is there other things that could be impacting their anxiety or depression that's mostly what I treat and trauma. Is there anything else that's going on? So I really have a holistic assessment that really digs deep.
Speaker 3:I take a little bit longer, I think, than other therapists to really get more background, to take my time with assessing everything. So I have a clear picture of how all these are interacting and I ask spirituality questions and if they're comfortable discussing that and going to that as well as physical issues. Is there any physical issues they have? What medications, which I know that could be standard. But looking at supplements too, because that can impact them if they're taking those. Are they going to any functional medicine doctors, Any other holistic providers? Those kinds of things. And really getting clear when I first start with someone is how I start my sessions.
Speaker 2:I like the idea of the longer history taking. When you talk about that, do you mean you have specific questions? You ask everyone Like what.
Speaker 3:Just like do you have any spiritual practices?
Speaker 2:And how many people actually answered that.
Speaker 3:Everybody. Yeah, most people are pretty open. Even I have atheist clients and they're like yeah, sure, I'll talk about my beliefs and what that means. And also I ask about what are some of the holistic practices they use, because that could be a starting point too, to see what are they already doing and are they using meditation, mindfulness, crystals, whatever it is that they're doing, and kind of talk about where they are with that and how that is a part of their coping skill and that brings to treatment planning. So can we use some of these things that they already are familiar with to start, because a lot of people know the right things to do or not right, but the things that help right. But they don't always do that Right. We're human.
Speaker 2:It's the irony of homeostasis right.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:We all aim for it, but when we get there we're like ugh.
Speaker 3:Right. So getting them back into those practices because part of what I do, too, is try to teach them how to be more consistent in these practices. How can you create a daily yoga practice or meditation based on what they are feeling is most helpful for them? And if they already have some things they're doing well, let's try to build on that. Maybe they meditate just when they're anxious. How about we try to do that when you're not anxious? Because that's going to help open your window of tolerance so that you'll be less reactive to stress, and it's going to help overall with the emotional regulation. And the holistic also brings in some different modalities. So there's a whole range that therapists can offer. So I offer a breath, work practices, meditation, mindfulness, grounding. It's a more somatic approach too that I use, really getting the body involved, not just the cognitive, because if you think about traditional, it's more about cognitive strategies and it is partly with a relationship too that helps therapeutically.
Speaker 3:Right, but we go a little bit further to try to get the body involved in spiritual practices too. What do they like to use? Is there anything else they could use and talk about their beliefs and dig a little more on that? Thank you all. Thanks for listening.
Speaker 2:Well, you mentioned grounding, and the reason why I want to bring that up is because what I also want to do with funding your way through therapy is to get people to think about there. What does that mean? So, for I'm sure that people had grounding, as you stay in the corner till the end of the session and think about what you just said and don't move from there.
Speaker 1:Oh.
Speaker 3:I see what you mean.
Speaker 2:You know you've been grounded, you can't do anything. So grounding, like I think that I've said to people have you ever tried some grounding techniques with my kids? Yes, and I'm like no, no, no, no, not that. Can you explain a little more about grounding techniques, Because I think that people don't get that? Like I said, I want to just demystify therapy as much as I possibly can.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. And again, I know I just mentioned some of these practices, but I always make sure clients are clear about what I mean by this and, of course, to practice these to see what it's like in session. So we do these in session and I teach them how to use it outside the session. So grounding is to me, it's connected with mindfulness. I don't know the differences sometimes, honestly, because they're very similar. Connecting to your body, like the body scan to me, could be grounding. So noticing where you are from head to toe, noticing sensations, what is coming up for you, temperature, did your body feel warm or cool? Where do you notice tension? And sometimes it is just noticing we're not changing anything, just being present with what is, noticing your energy level, noticing what emotions might be coming up. How is your mind today? Is it racing or is it more still To seeing what's there being present, which I guess is mindfulness too. So it's all interconnected, I think, with mindfulness.
Speaker 2:I think the reason why I ask, because I use a lot of grounding techniques, especially when people are having trauma issues.
Speaker 2:Yes definitely that's one of my go-to. When people are having a lot of trouble with their anxiety, they're aware of their body but they're not aware how to address it. So we do a lot of grounding techniques and for me again, just to give you my work on grounding, that's why I wanted to hear yours. I also talk about all right, look around your environment and look for four red things. Okay, look around your environment and look for three blue things. Look around your environment and see five yellow things and most people are like what are you doing? I said I'm bringing you back to the moment. What's here?
Speaker 3:Exactly.
Speaker 2:And so I think the trauma helps a lot. I didn't know.
Speaker 3:Yeah, orienting a response, and that can be just turning your head to the right, just looking around your room, going center and then left seeing what's there. So that actually triggers something in your brain that you're safe and your surroundings that you're okay. So just seeing what's there in your room, looking at shapes tell me what shapes you see in your room so it's kind of that mental grounding. So I use a lot of the physical grounding with yoga, which is breath and movement, or just noticing with awareness. So it isn't just increasing that awareness of what's coming up in the body and self soothing.
Speaker 3:I use a lot too. So that could be with self touch for clients that are okay with that, which could mean just putting like a hand on the chest, hand on the belly, just being present and just in that pose that's a yoga pose, staying in that pose for just a little while too and noticing what comes up, because what happens is that actually calms the nervous system, turns on that parasympathetic. So these simple things, that these are tools that clients can use, and I think that's a little different than talk there, because I know some there are some clients want more hands on tools and that's what I offer too, is just bringing some of these tools. They can practice.
Speaker 2:So what that brings to mind is that and I've joked around with my other another gas of mind, who's a friend of mine, who does dance therapy and then, like you just don't start like, all right, we just talked about very difficult things about your past. How about we just break out into a yoga pose? Everybody get into downward dog, but I'm joking around, of course, here. How do you integrate yoga into your therapy sessions?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so lots of different ways. So initially too, with clients, I let them know that I want them to have the agency to decide in their sessions if what they want to do. And I'll be like you know, these are some skills I'm going to be teaching you and just let me know if there's something at the beginning of a session that you want to address. We could do some yoga or meditation. They know all these because I go through all these and a lot of them will be like, oh my gosh, I have to do some yoga today. They let me know. So again, giving them the agency. But some clients also like to do at the start of a session how would you feel about doing some grounding to start today, or breath work, especially if I notice when they come on that they're just like having trouble sitting. Still, they're really having difficulty just connecting right to their bodies. Sometimes we'll just do that organically too. Just, I noticed that you're moving a lot in your seat and it's harder on video. I wouldn't say that.
Speaker 3:So, you don't see the whole body. So I don't always know what's happening from the beyond the shoulders and now. But if I notice in their face or if they're really struggling, then let's see if we could start the session with something. But sometimes I do it in the middle. It just depends what's going on. So it's kind of the clinical judgment.
Speaker 3:So let's see, because I've had some people too. They'll, you know, we'll talk about an issue, we talk about ways to handle it, what's going on, how did they handle it? And then they're like well, that's all I have for today. So I know we have a little bit more time. So is there anything else you want to focus on? They say no, well, would you want to work on a coping skill? And we could do XYZ or some people to end the session. So we have five minutes left. I'm noticed. So I wanted to teach you a new breathing technique today. How would you feel about that? And this could be used for homework, and so, again, we get informed consent. So this is not. None of this is forced on anybody, and this is if they say no, then we don't do it. But most of the people that come see me are interested in these techniques, and they have learned that traditional therapy hasn't worked for them 100%. It helps, but only brings them so far, so most of them are more motivated to try to integrate these into their lives.
Speaker 2:I mean, I think that you're absolutely right about traditional therapy. I think that as you evolve in therapy and again it could be wrong, but sometimes I need my therapist to just sit there and be a therapist about different things. And you know, like my therapist constantly talks about, what are you doing for exercise? How is your spiritual life? Are you paying attention to your body? All things like that. How do we like?
Speaker 2:For me, I think that there's some people maybe they've had trauma, they start therapy at 45, and they may need traditional therapy for the next five years, 10 years, whatever the case. Maybe I'm not trying to put any time frames here, but for some people they're in therapy for about a year and they go like kind of hit a wall here, and that's when you kind of go. How do we tell people about this? Because it's there's some people who take it the wrong way, like, well, maybe it's because we got to maybe work on a more holistic approach, and they say, well, no, you're just trying to milk me, or you're, I don't need that crap, or what have you and I know I'm asking you a little harder hitting question here, that is. But this is what this it's like hard copy. See, no one will get that reference except me and you From the years ago. But anyway, how do we get the people to think about it that way?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think so. We have traditional therapy, but this is integrative with talk therapy, right? So this is in addition. So I don't want people to think like we have traditional therapy and holistic but no, we do these holistic modalities or perspectives integrated into the session. So I don't do yoga for the whole 53 minutes, unless they're. They don't take unless they're not insurance and they that's what they want. But the insurance we typically don't.
Speaker 3:It's integrating just parts of the session and parts of these practices. But again, if it's yoga every time, then they're just coming for yoga. That's not therapy, right? We need to integrate all this with with the talk therapy as well and not to put down talk therapy is very helpful and very effective, but it's just for some people. They want something more, and I have a lot more people I say it coming out of the holistic closet, cause they're people are afraid sometimes to say that they have these practices. They use tarot cards or they like to use incense and crystals and and I'm talking clients they're even afraid to admit that, cause some people judge that or say there's that's the devil's work or so sometimes I think just allowing space for people to be themselves, or if they practice with God. I get some people that have alternative spiritual beliefs and that's cool, but they don't want to tell something, or just that.
Speaker 2:Well, I call it woo-woo stuff.
Speaker 3:Woo. Yeah, we jump in the woo on my pockets.
Speaker 2:yes, yeah, yeah, thank you Head first. But yeah, though, I think that doing that stuff is so important because I tell people we all have that side.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:You know, like you think that sitting in your favorite chair is going to make your local team win the game, I'm pretty sure the New England Patriots are not going. Oh, Steve's sitting in the couch at the right spot, let's play a little harder. But obviously we all have these little belief systems and I tell people you can call it whatever you want, but that's kind of a holistic approach. It's more like in the superstition realm.
Speaker 2:But who am I to as I just made fun of myself here, but I also who am I to dismiss what people's beliefs are?
Speaker 3:That's it. As therapists, we got to accept where they are.
Speaker 2:Because I think that what I've, being someone who practices Buddhist principles, I've learned that I can learn from the Native Americans as much as I can learn from any traditional religion or the Wiccan or you know like there's a lot to be said about different religion and what, or belief system or spirituality. I think I draw my line onto cults.
Speaker 3:For sure. Anything that causes harm yes.
Speaker 2:Right, I don't. I do know harm is the most universal spiritual belief system of them all. Yes, and I think that that's why I tell people if you want to think that your tarot cards are going to help you and if it's not harming you, who cares Really? Who cares?
Speaker 3:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:No I agree. And I know that we talked about it a little earlier, but the other one that I recommend to a whole lot of people is something that you actually are on to, and it's insight timer. I'm a big fan of insight timer and I recommend that to people who you know. I just wanted to do it for two minutes. There's probably one for two minutes.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's why I love that too, because you can put in how much time you want, and there's a meditation for that.
Speaker 2:Again, I personally don't make any money from insight timer. I just want to make sure. But if you do, go and find Chris's insight timer, I'm sure that there's a few of yours on there. Yeah, and there's breath work too.
Speaker 3:So I also teach breath work on there too. I think the other part too.
Speaker 2:That I really like about insight timer is, if you just want to do your own meditation, you can join other people starting at the same time as you, almost, like you know, in a cosmic way, and so now it's no longer cosmic, it's on your app. They show it Exactly.
Speaker 3:Exactly a building community.
Speaker 2:So I'm a big fan of insight timer. But again, moving on from insight timer, the other thing I wanted to ask you about is something called Aura. I don't know how, I'm not as familiar as most people.
Speaker 3:That's okay.
Speaker 2:But I'd like to hear more about the Aura app, because it's something that I feel is going to be something I'm going to be turning to very soon.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so that's also an app that provides meditations, breath work. They have some talks on there. They're integrating some yoga as well. They also have coaching on there. I don't do coaching on there yet, but they're integrating more of these different modalities and being more open to some of these practices and I also have some grounding meditations on there, kind of my whole widespread thing. I do lots of different things with Aura app now, so providing these and again, most of mine are short. I think that people don't want 25 minute meditation. I don't do 25 minutes, I don't always have time for that, so my five to 10 minute meditations, I think, are really helpful. And for sleep, that's the biggest what they found with Aura. The research they found is they really need help with sleep Most of the listeners. So sleep is so important and so essential to our overall well-being, so using some of these meditations for sleep Yoga nidra is a great one.
Speaker 3:That's using a body scan, but I can't tell you what happens at the end of yoga nidra because I always fall asleep, but I do have one that I have on there. But yeah, there's so many different sleep stories and I think that most people that's a good way to do that too, and you don't have to add it to your schedule. You're already in bed. Put it on some earbuds or headphones and listen in and see if that helps.
Speaker 2:And you know what I'm going to do is I'm going to attach the aura app to the show notes so that people can go and click and listen and see what they like, because I think it's important and I definitely will be exploring it myself.
Speaker 2:So, besides that, I'd like to hear more about your podcast too, because I you know like I listened to a lot of things, no, but this is, this is the important part, because you know, part of being in therapy, I tell people then sometimes I'll pick up more from therapy on podcasts that I might bring up to my therapist or what have you. So just something to keep in mind and I think that, listening to your podcast, it may be geared towards a certain crowd, but I think that everyone can really benefit. This is, this is geared towards therapists. I think that I've more. Mostly, I want people to pay attention to what can bring them the therapy, but I also think therapists can gain something from this and all that. I listened to your podcast and if, if, if I I don't know what your population that you're going towards, but I can see a whole lot of people really benefit from it. So I'd like to hear more about it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely. And one thing that I've started since April I do some shorter sessions or sessions. Call it sessions, podcasts, episodes, let's talk about it after this session.
Speaker 3:Yes, so because I would. I found from listeners is that you know they don't always have time for an hour long podcast. My friends, mine are not their 30, 45 minutes, but I started to do one solo episode per month, so I try. My goal was 20 minutes or under and that could be hard for me sometimes, but and then I do what I called holistic shorts, which is under 10 minutes, and that's super hard to get something quick, jump in. But I think it's helpful because I find that new listeners come and they I listened to one of your shorts that it was very helpful because they're able just to bam, just get in there and get out. They learned something real quick. And I have a recent one about how to find how do I find a holistic therapist, Cause that was a question I get a lot too. So I I'm interested in holistic therapy, but where do I find one? So that that's something that I dive into with that and I had an episode.
Speaker 3:I think that everybody can relate to how, how can I slow down more? I can remember the title of my podcast, but that was about how do I slow down more, Cause I know that people move so much and have difficulty relaxing, so that this is in general, too, for anybody. And I also have some topics on breath work, meditation, adding meditation to your day. So many holistic things I'm talking with angels, spirituality practices, tarot cards. So yeah, you name it. We're hitting everything.
Speaker 2:And I think that tarot cards are something that people under appreciate a whole lot. But that's just me.
Speaker 3:Yes, yes, and they can be used in therapy too.
Speaker 2:And so how do people reach you to get any type of information, whether it is the apps or listen to your podcast or a particular way to find you?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so my podcast is holistic counseling podcastcom. I just want to point out an episode for your listeners. They might be interested in this episode I found people have gone back to. There's a way that we as podcasters can see how many people are listening and staying with episode. This one was one of the most popular and I'm just shocked at how many people have gone back to this episode and listened again. So, as episode 105, it's breath work as a technique for stress reduction and it was with my guest, dominice Clifton. So great episode for you to check out to learn more about breath work and how you can use it. And I have a free 30 day guest pass for your listeners as well. And they can find more peace with meditation and get the sleep they need. So I have the link that you can put in the show notes for that.
Speaker 2:Oh, please go, and that's perfect. I think people will really appreciate it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, a little taste of it.
Speaker 2:And I think we all need a little spiritual practice in all our lives. I'll share this and because I think it's, it's part of what I used to, I grew up Catholic and then I was a recovering Catholic and then I was an atheist and I realized something was missing in my life. Luckily, I learned that in my early to mid 30s, and so I'm not saying that I'm Mr Guru on any of this stuff, but I certainly have increased my practice, my spiritual practice everywhere, and I will say that absolutely go to the show note, go click on it, because I think we all need a little spiritual practice. You want to call it holistic, you want to call it religion, you want to call it whatever hell you want. I really don't care personally. I just think we all need it, but I just want to plug that in there.
Speaker 3:Yes, absolutely. And if you haven't done any of these practices, sometimes it's good just to experiment, see what works for you.
Speaker 2:Worst case scenario you get you, you don't learn anything and you didn't lose anything.
Speaker 3:Yep.
Speaker 2:Best case scenario you gain an app that you're going to use on a regular basis. I think that's just an amazing thing.
Speaker 3:For sure.
Speaker 2:Well, chris, I can't thank you enough for your time. I know we're all busy, but I'll see you at other staff meetings, I'm sure. Yes, what do we call them? Hour or like office hours?
Speaker 3:Office hours.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Goren, don't fire me, but really great to talk to you. I really appreciate it. Thank you so much.
Speaker 3:Yes, thanks for having me. This has been great.
Speaker 2:Well, that concludes episode 111. Chris McDonald, thank you so much for joining me. Really enjoyed our conversation. Hope you guys got a lot of it as much as I did. But episode 112 will be with Megan Garvey. Megan's actually someone who works in my office and I just want to get to know her and since we're in the same office and we never chat, here's the way to do it. So she will be interviewed for episode 112. So I hope you join me then.
Speaker 1:Please like, subscribe and follow this podcast on your favorite platform. A glowing review is always helpful and, as a reminder, this podcast is for informational, educational and entertainment purposes only. If you're struggling with a mental health or substance abuse issue, please reach out to a professional counselor for consultation. If you are in a mental health crisis, call 988 for assistance. This number is available in the United States.
