Ever felt like you're faking it, just waiting for someone to discover you're not as talented or competent as they think? You're not alone. Join me, Steve Bisson, as I unravel the complexities of imposter syndrome, a psychological phenomenon where self-doubt lingers despite evident success. This episode is a deep dive into the heart of those nagging feelings that whisper 'you're a fraud', a sentiment all too common among high achievers and professionals alike.
As we peel back the layers of imposter syndrome, uncovering its underpinnings in workplace pressures, social comparison, and parental expectations, the conversation becomes more than just an analysis; it's a beacon for anyone feeling isolated by their doubts. By examining the symptoms and sharing strategies to overcome the relentless cycle of self-sabotage, this episode promises both relief and recognition for those grappling with the paradox of feeling unqualified amidst their achievements. Remember, admitting what we don't know can be the first step to conquering the imposter within, and together, we take that step on a journey towards self-discovery and healing.
Ever felt like you're faking it, just waiting for someone to discover you're not as talented or competent as they think? You're not alone. Join me, Steve Bisson, as I unravel the complexities of imposter syndrome, a psychological phenomenon where self-doubt lingers despite evident success. This episode is a deep dive into the heart of those nagging feelings that whisper 'you're a fraud', a sentiment all too common among high achievers and professionals alike.
As we peel back the layers of imposter syndrome, uncovering its underpinnings in workplace pressures, social comparison, and parental expectations, the conversation becomes more than just an analysis; it's a beacon for anyone feeling isolated by their doubts. By examining the symptoms and sharing strategies to overcome the relentless cycle of self-sabotage, this episode promises both relief and recognition for those grappling with the paradox of feeling unqualified amidst their achievements. Remember, admitting what we don't know can be the first step to conquering the imposter within, and together, we take that step on a journey towards self-discovery and healing.
Hi and welcome to Finding your Way Through Therapy. A proud member of the PsychCraft Network, the goal of this podcast is to demystify therapy, what can happen in therapy and the wide array of conversations you can have in and about therapy Through personal experiences. Guests will talk about therapy, their experiences with it and how psychology and therapy are present in many places in their lives, with lots of authenticity and a touch of humor. Here is your host, steve Bisson.
Speaker 2:
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Speaker 2:
Hi and welcome to episode 147. If you haven't listened to episode 146, it was the second part of a two-part interview with Catherine Branca. If you go back and listen to the second part, listen to the first part, it's really good. We talk about first responders, that it will be, by the time this comes out, second or third session of already going on and the needs of first responders, which is very different, and also how we want to move from just a trauma response, and what I mean by that you need to go listen to. But episode 147 will be on something called imposter syndrome.
Speaker 2:
A lot of people have inquired about imposter syndrome and I think I know one of the root causes, but I'll get to it a little later on when we're talking. But you know what is it and let's start off with just a definition. I like to give a definition. This is from different sources, so if you tell me where I got, I got it from APA. I got it from the NIH, the National Institute of Health, and a little bit of AI who helped me out.
Speaker 2:
But it's an internal feeling of self-doubt, despite evidence of competence and accomplishment. That is a combo of many, many things, and this is the best way to do it. In other words, you don't feel worthy. We talk about different times where we feel that way, and I think that what happens is that a lot of people have this fear of failure. When you have a fear of failure, you kind of want to be. You know you feel like an imposter, right, so you succeed, but it's not your success. Or if you do succeed, it's luck, but ultimately it's realizing too that it comes from. You know, feeling like a fraud, and I think a lot of people feel like a fraud in their jobs, right? You know, feeling like a fraud and I think a lot of people feel like a fraud in their jobs, right? And what I mean by that is this you know I've been doing this podcast for close to three years.
Speaker 2:
I've been a therapist for 20 years, worked in the mental health field for 25, and I still feel I don't know everything. And so if someone asks me like you know some things and I can't think of anything right now, obviously there's a lot I don't know. So if I don't know about it, I can't really come up with it. But if someone asks me about a technique I've never heard about, I'll say I don't know. That's how you address part of the imposter syndrome, but we'll get to how to address it. But I think that we're so afraid of it that we just don't say to hey, we don't know.
Speaker 2:
Overworking is another symptom. So, basically, people who like to do a lot of work so that they can show that they're successful financially, they're successful in their job, they're successful in what they do, that's kind of how they address it, by overdoing everything, and that's another symptom of it, and feeling unworthy whether it's love, whether it's work, whether it's at home, oh, I don't deserve this, I don't deserve this, I don't deserve this. I know that that comes off sometimes as a what do you call it? Being humbled and all that. No, that's just. That can be very much so imposter syndrome, because you don't feel like you're worthy because of different things and that's not fair to you. But just reminding yourself that you are worthy, you do deserve it and all those things, is very important. But we'll get there and then we'll continue working on the other part, too.
Speaker 2:
The causes this is, this is always the other part too is that let's blame, let's blame the parents, right, and at the end of the day, yes, we will blame a little bit of the parents. And what it means by that is that you know if you ever get negative feedback as a child to the point where you feel like you're inadequate for them, you feel unable to do things. So you know, I see that a lot, particularly people who have high achieving families in regards to doing, you know, school achievements in particular. You know there's a lot of ways you can address that, but you know if kids feel inadequate to you, right, and that's difficult for them to ever show their worthiness because you control their worthiness. When you get mad at them, they don't get mad at you, they get mad at themselves and you know that pushes a lot of imposter syndrome stuff in my opinion.
Speaker 2:
But you know this is also a lot of research, high expectations, people who have high standards you know I have nothing against high standards. I mean, I think that's important. That's why I work hard on getting this podcast to sound as professional as I can, with professional music, professional lighting, everything else. Well, you know, as a small podcast can do right, so if you want to go to YouTube, you'll see the lighting is exceptional. But at the end of the day, I think that that's part of it is that you can have high standards but if you don't meet them all the time, it's okay.
Speaker 2:
But when you have imposter syndrome, I'll never meet those high expectations, those high standards, and that's why you'll never be good enough and that's why we're imposters, right. And do I think that I'm the best podcaster in the world? No, but I do try my best. But if I don't get to be the best podcaster in the world, I'll live with myself. It's a little bit of a way. We'll give you a little bit of a solution focus here, but I wanted to kind of address it the complete, you know, competitive work environment.
Speaker 2:
So we've gotten to work at home not everyone, but a lot of us but also, like if you go in certain jobs, particularly, you know, I think about sales as being a culprit of that, and I'm not pushing anyone to go to say, oh my God, the salespeople are horrible. No, this is not no. No, that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that sales like if Jenny sells blank and Johnny sells blank and there's a number that's higher than the other bow, you're going to start competing with them. But if you have a boss who encourages that, that creates an environment where you feel like an imposter at all the time. Because if you have a month where you sell 12 and you're usually four if you have a boss that pushes you you did 12 already, do 12 next month, or at least 12. Because I mean you can do it right.
Speaker 2:
That's the competitive environment that really fucks with people's heads and makes them feel like imposters on a regular basis. So this is, you know, when I look at root causes bosses hear me out and I hope that that makes sense. As far as the other one, this is the real culprit. In my opinion, this is where imposter syndrome is absolutely the biggest problem, and I know that everyone points to them and there is good about it, but at the end of the day, when I think about, the biggest cause in recent years is social media, and what it is with social media is that we get a glimpse of someone's life for about one second if they do a video, 60 seconds and how happy they are, how they have a great relationship with their spouse, their sister, their son, their daughter, whatever. And you don't know if they fought right before that. You don't know if they're just having a good day or it's just an act.
Speaker 2:
We can all act right, and I think that what happens is we compare ourselves and with the comparison of social media, we tend to look at it as a way well, I'm not doing as well as Jenny, I'm not doing as well as Johnny. So they pick on all the Jennys and Johnnys in the world. But you know just easy names, and Jen is not exactly a rare name and Johnny's not exactly a rare name either. But in the algorithm also make sure that you feel inadequate, too right, when you think about it, the algorithm will go back to what you shows. So, basically, if you're looking for X, y, z about someone who wears this or someone who says certain things, well, I can't do that, I'm not at their level, or I can't wear that, I'm not at their level, or what have you, and then it creates an imposter syndrome if you try to do it and you're like, oh, I did it, but they don't know how much this sucks, or what have you, or I didn't pull it off as well as Johnny and Jenny. So there's a lot of comparison that happens with social media.
Speaker 2:
I don't want to blame social media solely. There's a lot of things too. We talked about the parents and I think that with parents too, I forgot to mention in the causes of it's the parenting in school too right, because if when you have a parent that tells a child you need to have the best grades all the time, well, that causes an imposter syndrome, because sometimes they feel like they have to cheat sometimes to do it and, believe me, I've had those conversations in sessions. They also feel like if they bring up a bad grade, and sometimes a bad grade for some people's B plus. And I know if you, some of you, watched a big bang theory, you know Sheldon would never accept that, but at the end of the day B plus isn't that bad. But for some parents it's like, well, no, you didn't try hard enough, you didn't do this, you didn't do that, and there's a lot of accusations and then you feel inadequate, you feel like an imposter, and so on and so forth. So now I gave you all the causes and the issues. So we blame work, we blame mom and dad and we blame social media. So there's not much left right.
Speaker 2:
But maybe we can address it and look at different things that you can do. And one of the things that you can do is recognize those feelings. You know, for a long time as a therapist I was mentored by great people, but I also knew in my head that I would never get to that level. But you know, people would always compliment me for X, y, z and I mean, yeah, but I'm not as good as blank, and that's a comparison thing. And it's also recognizing those feelings that I'll never be good enough. I'm sharing a personal story because I feel like when you guys hear my personal stories, you feel a little better about having to disclose your own, and I think that this is where we got to be a little more vulnerable. But I wanted to share that one.
Speaker 2:
Cbt is one of my favorite techniques, as some of you know, and one of my favorite CBT techniques is to reframe your thoughts. And how do we reframe thoughts when we're having imposter syndrome, right? So the thing I would say to you is this when we feel like we're not as good as but are you better than 50% of people? Are you better than 20% of the people? Are you better than 70% of the people, whatever? Realizing that possibly there's nothing that will be as high as the people. Are you better than 70 of the people, whatever? Realizing that possibly there's nothing that will be as high as the people you may be comparing yourself to, but at the end of the day, it's also realizing that that's okay.
Speaker 2:
So one of the things that I've shared with my clients is that whoever listens to this and says, wow, the guy's full of I'm fine with it. You know I'm not the best therapist in the world, but I probably rank in the top 85, so that's pretty good. So there's 15 that are hired in me, so to speak, and that's okay because that means it gives me something to aim for. And people say, well, that's you know either. That's call me cocky, I'm fine with that. But knowing that there's 15, don't you want to get them like I do. But one of the things I once heard and it was in the sports analogy, and I can't remember who said it, I always attribute it to tom brady, but truthfully I can't say off the top of my head who said it. But when you get to the top, there's only one place to go and that's down. You can't go any higher. So being the highest is not always the best. So when you reframe that thought about being, you know, always needing to be the best, that means once you get there, the only place you can go is down. So I'll take my 15th place or I'll take my 60th place. I'll still aim for higher and I'll aim to learn and I'll aim to not have an ego in regards to that, because that's the other part too is, if you see that you have something you can grow to, you can be, oh great, I can grow. That doesn't mean perfect, that doesn't mean you're not as good as you think you are, but if you're able to say you can grow, that really helps.
Speaker 2:
Seek support I hear that a lot in therapy. You know they feel like a bad parent, they feel like a bad worker, they feel like a bad whatever, and you come to therapy and we have a conversation about it and that's important. And I think having people like either a therapist, having friends, having someone who understands that, I think that that's all important to do. So that's what I say about seek support and normalize failure. One of the things I've learned is that you know, and I'm sure you've heard an inspirational quote and if you haven't, you know I can't remember all the names, but you know, among others, bill Gates, steve Jobs, founder of Microsoft and Apple respectively. They dropped out of high school person, and there's a lot of people like that. Those are the two that come to mind and they've done okay for themselves, right, they have companies that are very, very rich, and I know Steve Jobs no longer of this world, but I think that that's one of the things that you know he he regretted in one point too to say you know, I wish you know it didn't work so hard sometimes, but at the end of the day.
Speaker 2:
You don't need to see every failure as the worst thing in the world. I even tell my girls when I coach soccer but we learn more from a loss than we do from a win. When we win, we think we did everything right, so it's okay. But if you learn from your losses, then that's really the key and that's okay to lose and it's okay to be there. Do I want to lose? As the girls know, I always say I like to win better than losing, but at the same time, I can't let go of a learning experience when that occurs.
Speaker 2:
Celebrate achievements too. So when you achieve, instead of saying, well, that's not high enough or that's not good enough or that's not blank enough, maybe just celebrate it, be happy that you achieved whatever you wanted, whether it's underwater basket weaving or what have you. I'm just saying something like hey'm the best in the tri-valley area, I'm the best underwater basket weaver to achieve that. Well, I'm not the best in the state. Who cares? You won the tri-valley, who cares? Celebrate those small achievements.
Speaker 2:
I think that that's what and it's not small achievements I shouldn't have said that, but it's definitely achievements and realizing to have that and you know, avoid negative people. One of the things that negative people do is they bring you down, and what they do is they take your success and say, yeah, but it's not as good as Jenny, johnny, or what about? You know what are you gonna do when they come back and ask for more? Or, if you really, when there's new research, are you gonna be stuck because you can't learn more or whatever? The negative people just put you down. You achieve, you know, whatever you want in life. The negative people will find ways to find that achievement and turn it on its head and say, yep, not good enough. So just realize that and you know, embracing vulnerability that's the hardest thing I did in my podcasting career is that I decided to be vulnerable on this podcast and it's out there.
Speaker 2:
I'm also vulnerable in my personal life. I'm vulnerable in many places. So that way, people know I'm human and that's okay to be human. So I think it's important to continue to show that human side and hopefully, you know being vulnerable is okay and showing that most people are feeling like they need to get better and all that and vulnerability is hard but at same time, happy to hear that vulnerability is still around so I hope this made sense.
Speaker 2:
I hope you enjoyed this episode. You know again, always good if you're on youtube to click and subscribe and like this video. I always appreciate that. Also if you are on spotify and apple podcast in any platform. Frankly, if you can review me, give me a good five-star review if you feel like it. That would be great. And also always great to hear from you. I get a few emails here and there and I really appreciate those. So I hope to hear from you guys soon. But looking up to episode 148, this is another little bit of conversation that we're going to have. This is another little pet project of mine only children's stuff. My co-host, courtney Romanowski, is back. She's going to be running this with me because she's an only child. Returning guest Jen Nakai, from about two years ago roughly maybe, no, not that much a year ago she will be back. She's an only child too. And Brody Clemmer, who is also an only child, he's going to be joining us. So I hope you just come and listen to us then, and I appreciate your time.
Speaker 1:
Please like, subscribe and follow this podcast on your favorite platform. A glowing review is always helpful and, as a reminder, this podcast is for informational, educational and entertainment purposes only. If you're struggling with a mental health or substance abuse issue, please reach out to a professional counselor for consultation. If you are in a mental health crisis, call 988 for assistance. This number is available in the United States and Canada.