E.52 My Favorite Episode with Morgan Beard

This was a hard choice for this season. I chose this episode due to the complexity of the episode and how engaging Morgan was, not that my other guests were not.

On this episode,  my guest is Morgan Beard, a creative life coach and therapeutic pop artist. She discusses at great length her childhood, as well as her work in therapy, how to assert your needs with others. Morgan also discusses her career development, from schooling, to her first foray in art therapy, to her coaching business, and her exciting EP Ele.Mental , which had a full launch on 5/29/2022. Morgan was open about many parts of her life and her energy was amazing and contagious.

You can reach Morgan for coaching on her website here

Her full EP, Ele.Mental is now out and can be found here.

Her Coaching  Instagram can be found here and her Therapeutic Pop Music Instagram can be reached here

Finally, go see her videos here.

Transcript

Steve Bisson: 0:01

Hi and welcome to finding your way through therapy. I am your host, Steve Bisson. I'm an author and mental health counselor. Are you curious about therapy? Do you feel there is a lot of mystery about there? Do you wonder what your therapist is doing and why? The goal of this podcast is to make therapy and psychology accessible to all by using real language and straight to the point discussions. This podcast wants to remind you to take care of your mental health, just like you would your physical health. therapy should not be intimidating. It should be a great way to better health. I will demystify what happens in counseling, discuss topics related to mental health and discussions you can have what your thoughts I also want to introduce psychology in everyday life. As I feel most of our lives are enmeshed in psychology. I want to introduce the subtle and not so subtle ways psychology plays a factor in our lives. It will be my own mix of thoughts as well as special guests. So join me on this discovery of therapy and psychology. Hi, and welcome to episode 52 of finding your way through therapy. I am Steve B. So help you listen to episode 51 with Pat rice. That was my most downloaded episode, and it was very good. So I hope you got a chance to listen to that. Episode 52, which ends the season will be my favorite episode. And it is with Morgan beard. Morgan beard is a coach as well as an inspirational singer who released her EP called elemental, which has the four elements fire, water, wind and earth. And it is very, very good. So I hope you go and check it out. It's on Spotify, among other things. But here is the interview we did in March of 2022. Morgan is releasing her pop EPD view elemental, which we'll talk we'll talk about I'm sure in the interview. And Morgan is also a coach and has dedicated her life to using creative energy to heal and empower. She has managed her depression and anxiety since age 13. And will probably talk about her experience in therapy, which I'm looking very much for it to wit her coaching career going really well. She also created a lot of good energy for herself, and was able to get the confidence to embrace her earliest passion for singing and making music to help people move. So I hope we get to talk about that. But here is the interview. Well, hi everyone, and welcome to episode 45. I'm very excited to talk to the next guest because I've followed her on Instagram, I got connected with an organization we both know. And ever since I've been like kind of like very interested in her whole story because her hitting our story is amazing. And can't wait to talk about her music too. So there's a lot of great stuff to talk about. Morgan beard, welcome to finding your way through therapy.

Morgan Beard: 2:49

Thank you so much for having me. It's such a pleasure to be here.

Steve Bisson: 2:53

You know, I always start with the same question with everyone. It's because I this is also kind of a funny one, because I'm going to be like, I'm also learning about you. So tell me a little bit about yourself.

Morgan Beard: 3:03

Sure. So I am currently a creative life coach living in Los Angeles. And what that means and sort of how I got there is that I was living in New York several years ago. And I got my master's in art therapy because I decided I wanted to find a way to combine my desire to help people with my desire to be creative and use the artistic process. And I thought, oh my god, this is amazing. I'm going to be an art therapist for the rest of my life. I found my purpose, I found my calling. Fast forward five months later into working my first job after grad school at a big nursing home, I was completely burnt out. I was at rock bottom of my own personal depression, which I had visited with many times since I first started experiencing it as a young teenager at age 13. And I was just looking around at my life in New York and going oh my god, none of this works for me anymore. What am I going to do feeling completely hopeless, completely lost. And so I ended up moving to Los Angeles, mostly because I thought you know what, Sunshine might make me happy. It's that simple. And really leaving kind of the New York grind culture and trying to carve out a way for myself to put less weight on what my career and my purpose had to be, and more weight on what actually makes me happy on the simplest level. So I moved to Los Angeles and I ended up getting a job as an assistant to this woman who was a business coach for creative female entrepreneurs. And I had no plan whatsoever to continue working anywhere near the field of helping others in this discipline. But after working for her for about three months and kind of learning the ins and outs of her business. I was like you know what, I do want to do this again. I know how I can help people and I can use a lot more of myself in my work than I did when I was a therapist. Because a lot of what I do as a coach is informed by my own personal struggle, and the things that I use that have gotten me through various hurdles through my life, you know, overcoming depression and anxiety, and just kind of redesigning my life around trying to find happiness, and then incorporating some of the ideas and the tools of art therapy, which is self expression, and just the the power of self expression for self discovery for just getting stuff out of you. Right, it's just such a powerful force. Yeah. And through that process, realizing, like, Oh, I'm coaching other people to go for the things that they're the most passionate about and overcome their fears. And that's when music kind of started to rear its head again, that was my original passion. As a very small child, I loved to sing, I love to dance and perform, but it was not accepted. So I kind of pushed it down. And then being a coach, for others, it kind of bubbled back up in my own healing process. And now I am making pop music to also try to help people heal and transform.

Steve Bisson: 6:18

Well, I already listened a little bit of what you had on your Instagram great music so far, and I can't wait for it a single I, we're recording this on a Wednesday is being released on Friday. I know this podcast is only coming out about six weeks after that. But I will be sharing that because I'm very excited for you.

Morgan Beard: 6:33

Amazing. And yeah, by the time it comes out, the next song off of the EP will be out. And we'll be in the thick of it. So it'll be awesome.

Steve Bisson: 6:41

Anything I can do to support you, that's awesome. I love people who are self expressing and finding their ways because one of the things that struck me in what you just said is that you said you love music and you love dancing, but it was not accepted. Do you want to elaborate a little bit on that? Because that very curious now?

Morgan Beard: 6:58

Oh, yeah, sure. So when I was very little, I was an only child. And I had parents who were, well, I'll speak specifically of my mom, my mom was very hovering and intense. And she filmed a lot of my early life. And so when I was, you know, under four years old, she she always had the big VHS camera on her shoulder and was filming me and, and say this, say that, do this, sing this song, do this dance, do this thing. And really like making me perform. And then once I kind of got to five or six, I started to really enjoy it of my own accord and want to sing and want to dance and really loved doing that. And then somehow, some reason I, you know, I still am kind of piecing it together. She decided, no, it's not cute anymore, that went back to the sort of children should be seen and not heard philosophy, both of my parents, and it just kind of became something that was rejected or mocked or ignored. And it gave me this sort of underlying belief about myself that I shouldn't want to shine, I shouldn't want to be a performer, I shouldn't want to express myself in this way. It was bad. It was wrong. I would lose love, if I showed myself in that way. So it took a really, really long time for me to I mean, you know, I only started making music at 29. So it took decades to to unearth those really formative wounds. And I'm you know, I'm still in the release phase right now, it's still a major thing that, that I'm overcoming this process of getting visible around what I do and promoting it. It's challenging.

Steve Bisson: 8:45

Well, it's interesting, because I hear only child and as an only child myself, I relate to you a whole lot, the hovering parent or mom, I certainly relate to that. And I you know, I'm smiling right now, and no one can see it. It's a podcast, but I also felt intense sadness about not being able to be yourself. And it's it's I when I heard that you said it was such a nice smile. You've been through a lot of therapy, I can tell.

Morgan Beard: 9:15

Oh, yes, I love therapy so much.

Steve Bisson: 9:19

While you said the and I saw in your bio to what you talked about at age 13 Depression really hitting? Can you? Can you tell me more because that is definitely like I could talk about being an only child for hours because people always think that we have it's so easy. And to a certain extent, we don't have to share so much, which is great. But we also have a pressure that people who have two or three children cannot possibly fathom.

Morgan Beard: 9:42

Yeah, yeah. And I think a huge part of the only child experience and the depression for me, it's just loneliness. I mean, my childhood felt extremely lonely. I was it's not like I lived in, you know, a totally remote area where there was no one else you know, we had neighbors, Wilmington, Delaware, kind of suburb ish area. But also my parents were significantly older. So there was also like a major generation gap between myself and them. And they were the people that I interacted with the most. So I, when they were when they didn't want to interact with me, it was like, you know, go to your room, do your own thing. And that was like most of my childhood and I didn't even realize that that was abnormal until later, you know, going to college and being like, wow, I'm just overwhelmed by the fact that there are other people around all this. Used to just being in a cave and making my own fun for hours.

Steve Bisson: 10:40

You learn to entertain yourself, but it's also kind of like a double edged sword.

Morgan Beard: 10:44

Totally. And you don't, one of the most challenging things for me too. And challenging is sort of a whitewashed word, but not not having siblings to validate my perspective about my parents, like, the only when I would try to get connection or empathy with like my dad over something that my mom did. It was like, no, no, no, she's perfect, blah, blah, blah. And so my assertion that wait, no, this is really wrong, this is really hurting me, this is really unacceptable, was completely denied. And so that led also to this process of really struggling to feel that my feelings were accurate, let alone even bad. So that that also took years of unwinding in therapy. And I know a lot of people experience that only child or not, but that that that sort of chronic invalidation is extremely harmful, and it can go unnoticed for long periods of time.

Steve Bisson: 11:44

Yeah, and it definitely, you know, the feeling inaccurate is very difficult, because I find that with only children two there is, you know, I think you see it in across children, but particularly with for with only children are first children, perfectionism, and having to be perfect, you know, like that little, you know, the white picket fence, the two cars to the house and all that there's a lot of pressure put on only children. So I get it, I certainly get it. And when did you first kind of like realize that you can have feelings that may not match your parents was it through therapy was it through friends,

Morgan Beard: 12:21

I think therapy was a really big part of it. I went through a little bit of therapy as a high school senior, but that I even had to fight for because, you know, my parents didn't want me to be in therapy, they, they thought it was ridiculous, and, you know, pulled me out of it pretty quickly. And that was traumatic, obviously. And then I went back into therapy at the end of college. And I would say college was kind of the first time I really got to have my own independent lens on like, what was going on in my life, because I had enough space between myself and my parents to be able to look around and yeah, starting to see other other peers and what they were doing and starting to have those questions and then bringing them to a professional that could validate what I was saying. I mean, that was tremendously empowering for me, and then continuing that process through when I was living in New York after college with other therapists and just continuing to get more and more clarity on those distortions. It really took a period of years as an adult to figure out.

Steve Bisson: 13:26

I joke around Have you figured it out yet? Because I'd like to switch spots with you right now.

Morgan Beard: 13:32

Yes, and no. Some days? Yes. Other days. You know, that's, you're always you're always evolving. And it totally depends on like, your emotional state and what else is going on in your life, like how firmly you feel like you have a grasp on these things you're never done?

Steve Bisson: 13:48

And I feel like the grasp is gone for a long time. But that's just me. Yeah, we're talking about therapy. You mentioned something that I still feel happens a lot with families happens a lot with different people. There's a stigma around therapy. You know, I grew up like I was thinking in my head when you were thinking, we're talking like, did you grow up in Quebec? As I know you said Delaware, but I mean, my family and how I grew up in Quebec is you don't go to therapy? Because that's for the week. Yeah. So did you feel that for yourself? And how do we work as people who are for lack of a better word enlightened I don't think we're that special, but we are enlightened, to kind of encourage people to go out there and get some support through mental health.

Morgan Beard: 14:30

Yeah, I absolutely lived through an environment where it was seen as your weak it's unnecessary. It's ridiculous. You're being dramatic, every single possible insult but what I started to recognize as I had gone through more therapy and got older and wiser was oh, the reason this was so criticized and shot down for me was because you know, my parents egos are at stake in what I'm doing right. And it's much more about them not being willing to own those parts of them, the parts of them that are depressed, the parts of them that are mentally ill, the parts of them that are unhappy or unfulfilled, or whatever. And therapy can be a way of addressing any number of things. It's really just having a relationship with someone who can hold space for whatever's going on with you, right, you don't have to be psychotic. And actually therapy is, you know, it's it's more effective for people that are non psychotropic and non psychotic, actually. So, I'm a firm believer that everyone can benefit from a therapeutic relationship. I mean, everyone can benefit from that friend who listens. And a therapist is like, a friend who listens, but is trained to do so in a way that can move you along a spectrum and point things out if they're good, you know, right. I do hear a lot of complaints from people that, you know, my therapist just listens and doesn't contribute anything. And in that, what I would say to that is like, go find another therapist, because everyone works differently. So it's really about finding that right relationship, where you feel like you can unfold.

Steve Bisson: 16:18

I agree, you said so many great things in what you just said. The first thing is, you know, like, I'll share my story. People know from the podcast, but I was 12 years old, and my best friend died in a fire. And we played football, we played soccer together, and my parents who, you know, I heard on the radio. And my parents turned to me when we heard his name. Well, you know, you better be ready for the game on Saturday. And that was my grief process. And I want to make sure that anybody who's listening to this, I can't speak for more than I'll speak for myself. We're not blaming our parents here. This is not about blaming whoever it's how the sometimes how we grow up, and that's what they know. So, you know, I don't blame my parents. I can't speak for you, Morgan. But for me, that was my experience that probably why do therapy today and turning to coaching and stuff like that, because I think it's important to kind of have that space. So I really feel your story a lot.

Morgan Beard: 17:15

Yeah, thank you. Oh, that's so Oh, my God, that's so tragic. I'm so sorry that that was your experience.

Steve Bisson: 17:21

It you know, if, if anything, it taught me the importance of therapy, thought meaning importance of being open about stuff. And my I wrote a book last year, and my podcast has been out for about a year now. Even my closest friends, like you never told me that. And I'm like, I'm sorry, I grew up in Quebec, and they're all my Quebec friends. And like, we're not supposed to talk about that. I thought. So you really, you really need to kind of like get through the right therapist, and I think you said it right. The other thing I want to mention my my business is straight to the point therapy and coaching. So for me, most of my clients are like, well, you don't pull any punches like, well, if you want someone who pulls punches, that's fine. I'll find you someone. But I don't pull punches. And it's, you're absolutely right on find the right therapist. And I think a lot of people struggle with that. How do we encourage people to get the right therapist because I think that what people do, sometimes they kind of say, well, this is what therapy is, I can name you. 400 different things about therapy that are different from one person to the next.

Morgan Beard: 18:21

Yep. The best analogy that I like to share is it's like tasting a kiwi and going I don't like fruit. It's like, okay, but have you tried a banana? Have you tried an apple? Have you tried watermelon? They're wildly different.

Steve Bisson: 18:34

I like that analogy.

Morgan Beard: 18:37

But yeah, like, I mean, same same as like romantic partnership. It's like, you know, you could judge all of your, of what is romance on your first boyfriend or girlfriend or whoever, like, no. That's just the beginning of finding your way and finding who you are and what you like and what you don't like.

Steve Bisson: 18:57

And I think that what I also remind people is that there's no one like, you know, people talk about CBT, and DBT, and behavioral and Raj Aryan and all that stuff. And people ask me all the time, which one is the most effective? And I say that therapeutic alliance?

Morgan Beard: 19:12

Oh, yes. Oh, my God. Yes. Amen. If

Steve Bisson: 19:15

I don't like and this is, if I'm burning, breaking a wall here. If you don't like your client, it's hard for a therapist to be effective. And it's if you don't like your therapist, it doesn't work well for the client. And if I'm breaking a wall here, I'm fine with it. Because I think it's really hard to be able to do that. Because, you know, sometimes it's language. You know, for me, we talked prior to the interview, I swear, I don't have a problem with swearing. But for some clients, that's not acceptable, which is fine. That means they may need someone who doesn't do that, and that's fine. But I really liked what you said about that. And thing that came to mind is when you're talking about depression, and I certainly struggle, my depression and my post traumatic stress disorder, how do you regulate those negative thoughts and how does it relate to behavioral pounders I'd like to hear more about that, because you seem to be know a whole lot about this.

Morgan Beard: 20:04

Yes. So similarly, a lot of personal experience here that informs my work. So yeah, it's it's always sort of that blessing and that curse. So sort of similar to your answer about the therapeutic alliance, like, how do you deal with negative thoughts you don't like you, it's the way you meet yourself, it's the way that you meet yourself, it's your alliance with yourself. Because you can have a negative thought, like, I'm a piece of shit. And if your responses, you're a piece of shit for telling yourself, you're a piece of shit, or sort of in that energy of like, Ah, you shouldn't think that you brought that same critical voice and tone, you're not, you're just kind of bringing a gun to a gunfight. Instead of like, disarming that gun. This is a sort of a weak metaphor, but whatever.

Steve Bisson: 20:58

We'll make a few of those. And we'll make some good ones a workshop.

Morgan Beard: 21:02

Yeah, we'll hit the full gamut. So what you really have to do is, try to come into that situation with yourself with a mindfulness that, that negative thought that negative behavior, whatever that feeling, is, it comes from somewhere. And usually it comes from hurt, whether it's hurt that you've inflicted on yourself hurt that someone else has inflicted on you that got sort of lodged in your brain as a coping mechanism. And the the more keen your observational skill. And mindfulness skill is, the more you can hold that part of yourself that has the negative thought and witness that with kindness, and also come into that conversation with a different voice with a different energy. And that's how you kind of bring the negative to where you are, instead of trying to beat it down with more negativity. It's really more about the how you approach it, then, like, whatever technique you have, because again, you can apply all these techniques, CBT, DBT, all these things. But if you're not changing the voice, and the how, and the making that holding space that you give yourself kinder, you're not really gonna move anything around.

Steve Bisson: 22:22

Yeah, no, you know, just a reminder to everyone, we're listening to finding your way through therapy. And I'm Stevie. So we're listening to Morgan beard, talk about her. And we're gonna talk about a lot of different things about her. But really look by enjoying this conversation, because I think that you're right, that circular motion of, I'm a piece of shit, oh, stop calling yourself a piece of shit, you piece of shit. Okay. And that's just never stops. And you know, all you do is you rotate through the same thought pattern. I also remind people and I don't know if you agree with me, because I think that when you have negative thoughts, I tell people don't hang out with people with negative thoughts. I work with a lot of first responders and correctional staff. And I'm like, yeah, maybe you don't hang out with people who think that way? Because you're just going to feed the machine so to speak.

Morgan Beard: 23:05

Yeah, yeah. They're like, since since moving to Los Angeles, I've become much more of like a woowoo spiritual person, which can turn people off. But on the other hand, I'm like, alright, well, that's fine. I'm happier for it. And it helps me understand my world in a way that connects to my intuitive sense of it. But like, it's a vibrational thing, a frequency thing of like, it just feels like garbage. It just feels like eating crap. And if you Yeah, if you hang out with people that eat crap, you're more likely to eat crap, you're just gonna be in that vicinity, kind of soaking up that toxic concoction all the time.

Steve Bisson: 23:45

And it certainly leads to those behavioral patterns you talked about earlier. And don't worry about the woowoo stuff. I am a woowoo person myself. And I know people say that Woo is a negative connotation. I really don't care. I'm okay with it. I don't know if you're okay with it, but I'm okay with it. Great, great. You know, talking about a little harder stuff around mental health and all that, you know, something that comes up in pretty much every season, sometimes more often than not, is suicidal thoughts and stuff like that. I know that you probably have your own ideas and stuff that you can talk about. So how do we overcome like suicidal depression? Because it's more common, and most people think because if people think that if you mentioned suicide, it's going to create suicidal thoughts. In fact, it's the reverse effect.

Morgan Beard: 24:33

Yes, so a huge thing that feeds depression and suicidal thinking is the shame around it. The fact that we feel like we have to hide it, we have to make ourselves invisible, we have to isolate. So there's, you know, some of that route in my childhood, like I alluded to earlier of just that feeling of these negative emotions are unacceptable to the people around me. So that kind of carry It's an echo and myself of their unacceptable to me, and then I'm against myself. And I think that rooting out the problem means killing myself because I think that I'm inextricably connected to these negative emotions that I'm not allowed to have that are bad. And so I'm the problem. So how do you eliminate the problem? Why? There you are. So yeah, I, it's a tough one. Because when I'm sitting here with you right now, and I'm having a good day, I'm feeling good. It's easy for me to say, yeah, that's not actually me. That's just something that happens to me that I move through. It's a lot different when you're in it, and you're feeling it, and it feels tremendously real. And when I say, you know, I've overcome suicidal depression. To me, that means I'm alive. It does not mean I never have a suicidal thought, I never get depressed. That is a totally like, inaccurate characterization, because these pathways for me are super well worn, like something triggers me to feel unworthy, boom, I'm right there, I want to die. Having that thought. And even in every time I have that moment, it's a practice of not identifying with it. Right? Not believing that it's permanent. And knowing that I can move through this and remembering that I have the tools and every single time it happens, I kind of sharpen my toolkit, no matter how shitty it feels while it's happening. So it's, it's also sharpening that same mindfulness skill of like, oh, I recognize I feel really shitty right. Now. Let me go back to the basics. Let me feed myself something good. Let me just comfort myself, drink some water, watch a TV show, just get away from it, not kind of scratch at it and conclude that I'm the biggest piece of shit that's ever walked the face of the earth. Try to avoid that if you can. Or if not, you know, again, like really holding yourself with gentleness and like, Yeah, this is where I am right now. And it's okay.

Steve Bisson: 27:13

Well, we talked about it earlier about it, I think about as a Buddhist process of observing it, and not letting it take over. Yes, most people know I'm a practice Buddhist principles. So I am very much into that. The other thing that I want to mention is the neurological concept that you talk, which is very important. I tell people like if you have a superhighway that goes from your midbrain to yours, you know your upper brain that says you know, suicidal thought, how about just killing yourself. You need to learn how to put dents in that superhighway, you got to learn how to destroy some lanes, you got to learn how to get on the exits and the off ramps of some sort. And really working on that. And you talked about a lot of different techniques. I always recommend that even if it's a passive suicidal thought, just learn to observe it, it's okay to have a thought, you know, maybe I shouldn't be here and I have that more than I care to share here on my podcast. How would you recommend we deal with some of other ways to deal with some passive suicidal thoughts? Maybe we're feeling good. But then suddenly, the thought pops out and like, yeah, maybe I shouldn't be here. You have any suggestions for people?

Morgan Beard: 28:19

Oh, yeah. So the biggest thing for me or the biggest, like, area of tools in my toolkit that's been helpful for me is creativity, self expression, making something because I'm sure you've heard this the kind of conceptualization of depression as anger turned inward, right. And a lot of us people who are depressed, have someone in our lives that was angry at us, and that we kind of stomach that and swallowed that took in their criticism and let it kind of fester inside of us. And again, that that impulse of I hate you for yelling at me gets turned into I hate me for being myself and triggering that person's anger. And that sort of this flipped script. And that's where that, in my experience, that's where I think that that impulse to harm ourselves or kill ourselves comes in, it's like, well, I can't change this outside person who's so angry or so upset with me, I can change myself. They want me to not be there or there. So their amount of upset with me is so intense. The only thing I can do to make the world a better place, save them from their selves is to remove myself. And so that internalizing process is so harmful. and self expression is, to me the best antidote, whether it's talking, whether it's journaling, whether it's dancing, I've done a lot of like dancing practice, because the other thing about self expression that's so powerful is the more that it can, you can use your whole body as a way of expressing and externalizing what's stored literally in your body. Like when I talk about you stomach, someone else's anger, myself, and a lot of my clients really describe that feeling of nervousness or anxiety, or low self worth, as coming from their stomach feels like that's where it's centered. So, if you can move your body, if you can yell and scream, in my case, you can sing. You're actually reversing that action that was done to you. And it's really potent.

Steve Bisson: 30:46

i Yeah, I hear this singing thing. I don't think that this gravelly voice that I have I'm quite the singer yet, but I like the whole talking. I like the whole journaling. You know, I tell people get a coloring book, get a sheets to draw, get something like that and really helps the dancing part. When you're self conscious, and I'm gonna throw maybe a curveball here. Okay, okay. Not trying to, because not ready. The first thing that came to mind is that if you're someone who has body image issues, you're already depressed because of it. Maybe you get suicidal. But how do we encourage someone to like I personally don't care if I dance and people like, look, my got to I got a teenage daughter and young man about to be a teen. So believe me, they're already embarrassed me. So I've learned to like not give a crap. And that giving about what other people think is very important, in my opinion. But how do you encourage people to dance because some people really struggle? And that's not like people always the misconception is, oh, it's because you're big? No, sometimes it's because you feel like you're awkward because you're too small or you don't have whatever. And I've heard it in every different ways. How do we encourage people to dance?

Morgan Beard: 31:59

Yeah, okay. So I think for someone who is struggling with self consciousness about their body, which has been me, I, back when I was saying that, you know, when I was like a teenager and starting to have depression, I would look at myself in the mirror and literally think I was the ugliest human being on the planet. Like, I was absolutely convinced that there was not a specimen more disgusting than me. And I was just a normal awkward teenager. You know,

Steve Bisson: 32:30

how many teenage girls go through that?

Morgan Beard: 32:33

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, especially with women. Oh, my God. Oh, yes. Heartbreaking. But yeah, so I think that, for that state, you don't want to start with something where you're super visible, maybe even to yourself, maybe even cover your mirrors, just find music, that you can't help but like, move to in some way, whether it's just tapping your foot nodding your head, just something that that starts to make you move, and try to breathe through even the discomfort and self consciousness that might come from just even knowing you're trying something to help yourself, like, or if you have a self consciousness about your stomach, and you start to like, move your torso around, that might bring up the awareness of ooh, I don't like how my stomach is and feels right now. So maybe you close your eyes, or maybe you start moving a part of your body that you don't have as complicated feelings about. But yeah, I think picking a playlist specifically that works for you is a huge start. And then just letting it be continually shifting your focus to about how it feels, rather than how it looks. One of the most healing practices of all time, which this is, I'm sort of describing here is ecstatic dance, which is essentially the practice of it's a moving dancing meditation that's all about how does it feel in your body, and expressing things with your body versus how it looks or if you're on rhythm, or it's not at all about, you know, choreography or looking cool. It's all about moving your body as a therapy for your body. And that, you know, you could kind of graduate from covering the mirrors and dancing in your living room to go into an ecstatic dance event. But when I first started doing that, I was tremendously self conscious dancing in front of other people. But I found this great, this great meeting, it was just a bunch of old hippies and I was like, Okay, I think I can I think I can, like interact with this in my own way and even just showing up even if you don't feel comfortable enough dancing yet, showing up, observe, watch other people see what they do, or kind of focus on Okay, let me start with my hand. What are just all All the different configurations of ways I can spread my fingers out and create tension, create looseness. And what if the air was a different texture and just playing these little games with yourself to kind of take the focus off? How do I look dancing?

Steve Bisson: 35:15

Well, you know, all I can think of is, you know, dance therapy and shout out to my colleague, Courtney romanovski. Who does it in my office. She's amazing. And yeah, I think that that's the stuff that the, the exposure was hard. I mean, for me, I am not quite there yet. I'll be honest. But last year, I finally went to a yoga studio, which I'd never done before. And, you know, I felt awkward, I felt shy, I felt like people were gonna judge me and stuff like that. It was this was the least judgmental people I've ever met in my life. They were like, so happy to have me there and come back me. So you know, you need to get over it. Sometimes. Maybe you do start at home and kind of like, bring it I talked about yoga. We'll talk about dance, maybe in a few weeks. Obviously, I'll tell I'll let you know. But not quite there yet. I will.

Morgan Beard: 36:08

Yoga is a great inter intro to dance I, I've been doing yoga for a long time, feel super grateful that that's been a part of my kind of like athletic training. But going into a dance situation, knowing that I can make certain postures with my body was a great kind of way to grease the wheels into doing it to music.

Steve Bisson: 36:28

And I met anyone who asked me about yoga, I said, you know if you know in Downward dog, and Child's Pose, you're probably 50%. There. You're good.

Morgan Beard: 36:38

Yep, those are critical.

Steve Bisson: 36:39

I know. So that's why like one of my clients who recently went to a yoga studio, you're right, that's like 50% of it. I said, Yeah, you're not gonna do to cross pose right away. And that's fine. It's okay. You get to it eventually. Just be okay with and that's certainly something we we talked about with my clients. I talked about just about everything, as you can tell. Yeah. So let's shift gears a little bit here and talk about how do you figure out what you want? Because you talked about your journey, and I can't tell you how much I am. Thank you for sharing number one. Number two, such a great journey. I'm so happy that you found yourself again. But how do we encourage people to go there?

Morgan Beard: 37:20

Yeah, so some of the best decisions I've ever made for myself, that have led to more great decisions and more opportunities and more things that I like, and that I want come from listening to the tiniest, smallest little whispers that sometimes you don't even understand or can't even really translate or justify with words, it's just a really small feeling or impression. Like when I moved to Los Angeles, for example, I just, I got a sense that it would be a place where I might be happy, based on some friends who had moved from New York to LA and kind of what they said about the experience seeing la depicted on TV, it can be the silliest thing. But it's like if it for some reason just kind of resonates to you. Or maybe maybe you don't even know if it resonates yet, but you just kind of think about it, it kind of sticks in your brain, something in you is telling you like look more closely at this. And the more that you do, this kind of mirrors the transition for me between from therapy to coaching is like, the more that you can heal the pain and the intensity of the negative voices and thoughts. The more space you have to really just listen to yourself. Like, the more you can tolerate quiet. And the more that you can hear the subtler signals of what your body is telling you. And then that's when you start to transition into following the positive things and building on that instead of just working with healing the negative stuff, then it becomes all about what can you discover what can you attract? What can you feel in your body that really like lights you up? So that's kind of like moves you all the way across the spectrum from the worst of the worst to like, I am absolutely shining and living my purpose because I'm patient, and I'm listening to myself.

Steve Bisson: 39:22

And it's moving yourself from the depression. And I think that that's what you're talking about. You know, you talked about rule of thumb, I'm sure you've heard this too. Depression is thinking too much about the past and anxieties worried about the future. And I know this is not a steadfast rule, but it's a good rule of thumb and being able to figure out what you want by going through all that is very important. Obviously, we talked about different ways to do so. Obviously, coaching is one of them. How do you do that through your coaching practice?

Morgan Beard: 39:52

Yeah, so a lot of different ways. As I said before coming from my art therapy background, I was exposed to a really wide toolkit of how can you work with people? What different kinds of tasks can you give them, seeing how they approach certain projects? And then that also just broke it open even further of like, how can I get people to use their bodies to convey how they're feeling? And, okay, they're feeling depressed? What does that look like in their body? And they curl up in the fetal position, okay, how do you want to feel and they spread out and they open their arms wide? And it's like, okay, so what is it? What are the concrete steps it takes to go from needing to curl up to feel safe to feeling expressive and open and naturally letting yourself just kind of move the way that you want to and, and then you kind of reverse engineer the metaphor. I do a lot of guided meditation and visualization with clients, I find that to be one of the most profound practices because, you know, you start by relaxing people and grounding them and getting them to focus on their breath. And then that kind of takes care of the like, I'm too anxious to even think straight stuff. So you get them really to be able to listen to their bodies. And then it's like, what is your body saying to you? Okay, I feel a nervousness in my stomach. Okay, let's take a look at that. What color would you say it is? That's where the mindfulness skill comes in. It's, it's starting to be aware of something, noticing it describing it, I would I compare it to like, you're a scientist, and you're in there, and you're trying to just convey to someone who's never seen a nervous stomach, what is that like? Or you feel tension in your jaw, okay, like paint that picture for me. And things always come to light in the way that people describe the way that they feel the messages and signals that they get, it's like, once we clear that, like looming cloud of everything feels anxious, or everything feels depressed, their inner voice can talk to them through their subconscious through their body through whatever and then that you have your pilot in you, everybody does. Everybody has their pilot inside of them. But it's like, how do you make the conditions right for them to come out, feel safe to communicate, and start to open up that dialogue so that then you can ask questions to them anytime you want. How does this feel? How does that feel? What should I do with here? What should I do there? Yeah,

Steve Bisson: 42:26

it's kind of normalizing what we're feeling. And I think that that's very tough. The other normalizing thing that I want to ask you is that I get, at this point, I'm not annoyed, but disturbed by how people make meditation sound like, you know, you got to be on this seat cushion and be there for five hours, and then suddenly, you're going to be enlightened for the rest of your life. Do you get that too? Or not? And how do you kind of break that wall down for people?

Morgan Beard: 42:53

Yeah, I think that I used to approach meditation with that sort of perfectionistic totally unrealistic attitude of like, Yeah, I'm gonna sit here and I'm just going to be calm and still and observe my thoughts. And I'm going to be like a rock and the, the amount of times when I sit for meditation, and I have to stop myself from just popping up and doing something on my to do list or chasing down, whatever thought that comes up. I mean, it's just infinite, you just do it infinitely. Like the practice is continually letting go of your attachment to all the ways that your mind wants to race and wants to tell you this or that or the other, and take you back to the past or ahead to the future. It's just that continual like hurting it back in hurting it back and hurting it back in. And a lot of times that doesn't feel peaceful. It feels really uncomfortable. And what I encounter a lot is people that are like, yeah, meditation just doesn't work for me. It's too hard. I can't sit still. I can't this. I can't that. So maybe sitting on a cushion for 20 minutes in silence isn't your starting meditation. Yoga could be your starting meditation, taking a walk, and just kind of noticing what's happening in your five senses. That can be a meditation, like broadening that definition out so that you can find your, your gateway drug of meditation,

Steve Bisson: 44:23

right. That's, that's a good drug to have, by the way, too.

Morgan Beard: 44:26

Yeah, as a trippy man,

Steve Bisson: 44:30

it is tricky. Sometimes you're like, oh my god, I saw colors. I always use this and I don't know what, you know, I, I've talked to clients and I said, Okay, let's do a quick meditation exercise. They're like, Okay, what is it? Okay? So close your eyes. If you can't, or you're comfortable. It's okay. If you don't take a deep breath. Hold it, and let it go. There you go. You've done your first meditation. How'd that feel? And most people like oh, that's, that's simple. I'm like, yeah, it's not and that's not as complicated as most people make it. And then you get to five minutes and if you You get to. And if you're lucky, you get to be eight hours and good for you because I am not even close to that. But just trying to break down the whole idea, like your idea of also walking and being mindful of your five senses, I love that work on mindfulness and just being okay. I go back to JCD, to who wrote the book, Think like a monk. And he says, It's not about closing your mind completely. It's observing the thoughts that come into your mind. It's not if you if you can empty your mind, congratulations. That's great. However, I don't know many people who do that, including monks.

Morgan Beard: 45:38

Yeah, it's sort of like the misinterpretation of like, overcoming suicidal depression, it doesn't mean I'm never depressed, I never have suicidal thoughts. Being mindful doesn't mean I just snap my fingers. And my mind is clear. It's living through the way we are naturally, and being spacious around it,

Steve Bisson: 45:59

right. And learning to be able to be in the moment, which is, you know, one of the other ways I tell people to be mindful me worrying about getting my car windshield repaired, there's not going to help me in my conversation with Morgan right now. It's just not so might as well just contact the moment versus thinking about 14 things. And that's what I think is another mindfulness exercise that people find helpful.

Morgan Beard: 46:24

Yeah, contact the moment. I love that expression. That's great.

Steve Bisson: 46:28

And that's, that's all you can do. I can't be with anyone else. But Morgan right now. And that's the most important thing in my life. So that's how I perceive it. fighting your way through therapy against the beast, I'm talking to Morgan beard, Morgan, I want to switch gears again. And I'd love to hear more about I don't know what you want to start off with. I know that you talked about rock your stress. But I really want to go into your music because I think that to me, you know, I have no voice. I don't know how to play instruments. But music is probably the most important thing in my life. Other than, you know, my kids, probably, I love listening to music. It's just a greatest tool in the world, in my opinion. And I was thinking about, I can't pronounce his name, we'll call him bas. Who does wear sunscreen, and talking about how if you got to live on the east coast, leave before it makes you too hard. And if you go to the West Coast leave before it makes it too soft. So whenever you tell me your story is always that comes to mind. But whatever you want to start off with, because maybe if we're gonna maybe finish off and rock your stress, and then I'd love to hear more about your music.

Morgan Beard: 47:29

Yeah, well, the first thing I have to say is I'm not gonna let you get away with saying you have no voice because here you are talking to me using your voice.

Steve Bisson: 47:37

Okay, to shame to shame.

Morgan Beard: 47:40

Yeah, not doing my job there. If I missed that I let that go by.

Steve Bisson: 47:44

You're such a coach.

Morgan Beard: 47:46

Yeah, you can't can't extract it. But yeah, like I for me, the process of finding my voice was just shifting that limiting belief that I wasn't allowed to share it or that I was too much. I was too loud, I was too bossy I was to all these different criticisms that I fielded. And so for me, going from coaching other people to really acting on my own impulses, obviously, I still coach I love it. But I'm also welcoming in this other creative Avenue. alongside it. It's been a lot about just starting at where my edges and building slowly outwards. So I wasn't starting with no voice, because I love to sing so much. I would sing in the shower, like anywhere in the car, anywhere I was private, no one could hear me, I was singing so I was kind of stretching my voice out. And that way, for me, the the edge was doing it in front of someone else. Like I had to overcome so much guilt and shame and like self loathing in order to even open my mouth and that way in front of someone else. I mean, you know, someone might look at you and be like, Oh, I could never be on a podcast, you know, it's just about where are you starting and, and where are you kind of shifting those those beliefs. And so my music is both a very personal transformation process that I'm going through purely because I want to keep pushing the boundaries of my comfort zone and kind of do what I think I I came here to do what my body my spirits telling me to do. But I also want to really open up my world to people and kind of express in a musical catchy way using pop music as a vehicle to get people to understand some of the thought processes some of the emotions that have gone into my personal transformation, and not only using the actual sounds, to get people to move their bodies but also my music is very a lyric driven and it's it's very much about what can I tell myself? How can I talk to myself and as a coach, it's like you try to get people to internalize what you're saying to them when they have a tough moment and you want them to take you in so that they can feel empowered on their own and say the right things do the right things, you know, build themselves up and see their strengths instead of their weaknesses. So the music is about, like, just trying to get stuck in people's heads positive fit.

Steve Bisson: 50:35

Right? And you know, what I what I want to say, and I can't let this one go, because I'm a feminist, and I have no problem saying that. You're too loud. You're too this, you're through that. Is that the bullshit that women have to put through? I mean, I I'm sorry, I had to say that because that's I love it, but just have to say that because that's what they say to women like the I'm not threatened by any of that. Anyone just want to mention now No, thank

Morgan Beard: 50:58

you. That's just

Steve Bisson: 51:00

it. You don't need to be anybody's box. It just be yourself. You know, I talked about you talked about your music and going past that edge. I met a Linus Morissette a long time ago, when she was in Montreal, I still doing dance music if you ever want to hear that. There's when I met her I can share the story offline. I'm not going to share it here. The latest music especially Jagged Little Pill when I was growing up, it's kind of like the most meaningful music I really love her lyrics. There's a lot of French artists that I really love, including Isabel lay, and other stuff that lyrically driven. Who are your influences in your music?

Morgan Beard: 51:42

That's a great question. So I, I grew up with a very wide variety of tastes. My dad had a big CD and record collection. And the people that I was obsessed with were Whitney Houston, Madonna, Elton John, Ray Charles,

Steve Bisson: 52:03

good voices, all

Morgan Beard: 52:05

good voices, very soulful. Christina Aguilera, I was also a 90s. Child, I was born in 1990. So like, the 90s, pop icons were also huge for me. And anyone who had kind of like, as a soulful expression, something like deep and connected either in what they were saying, or how their voice worked, or, you know, kind of just the cadence of the music behind them. Like, there's something like, pushing out where it's something sort of transformative about it. I talked actually on another podcast about Madonna. And, I mean, she was a feminist icon. She was I mean, she was really pushing the boundaries of, you know, at her time about free female sexual expression. I mean, people were just like, shocked by what she was doing. And now, everything looks like porn. So

Steve Bisson: 53:04

I remember staying up for the videos in the 90s when she was releasing, just to find my love and stuff like that. So I do remember that too. But go ahead. I'm

Morgan Beard: 53:12

sorry. No, no, no, no, no, I love that. It's a great personal connection. But yeah, so just like, people who were really like sharing pieces of themselves. That was a huge influence on me. And I've always been someone who's tried really hard to share myself as openly and vulnerably and honestly as possible. And so I think it's honestly hard to describe this is the one question where you've kind of stumped me because

Steve Bisson: 53:41

I always get it. All right.

Morgan Beard: 53:44

I always kind of struggled to talk about, like artists that inspire me because it is like what I was talking about earlier about sometimes you just know you like something, you can't necessarily put your finger on why it moves you but it does. And there are just so many tremendous artists that have moved me through all the different channels of expression.

Steve Bisson: 54:05

And I go back to again, my roots in Montreal, the one regret I have is not liking Leonard Cohen sooner in my life, because you listen to his lyrics nowadays. I'm like Jesus Christ. Why How did I miss that guy? And unfortunately, he's not of this world anymore. Is there like a voice that particularly you talked about Madonna? But is there like one person one voice when like, Christina has been Christina's lyrics, you get past the pop music. There's a lot of like, really meaningful songs that she's written. Anybody in particular that really kind of like you say, Oh, my God, I this is the person I could I wish I could emulate.

Morgan Beard: 54:47

Yeah, I could name so many. I mean, Adele, i Her most recent album. I'm not gonna say I'm not familiar with it. So I don't want to mislead anyone but like her 20 One, that album, I mean, every single song just pouring her heart and soul into it. It's like, it comes from a broken heart, you know that, that all this amazing. It gets put down because you're just so compelled to create because you have to self Express. That's where I feel like the music just hits. You know, like, her voice is so soulful. And her lyrics are so like rich and raw and connected. And you can just feel it the immediacy is there. Celine Dion is another one who I another diva, who I just absolutely idolized and loved. And these women like Celine Dion. And I think I think Adele will get there. But it's a little too soon to tell who have just, like, transcended time and decade after decade after decade are still relevant. And Madonna still reinventing herself. I mean, that the evolution of these artists to is absolutely tremendous. And knowing what it takes to just put one work out into the world. You know, I don't know how you do it for decades and decades and decades, I can only hope to continue to have enough fire and things to say and desire to self express that I continue to push that envelope.

Steve Bisson: 56:20

You know, I feel like I'm plugging Quebec on the left and right with Celine Dion here. Yeah, you know, I've watched Celine Dion's career since 1984. And she first really came out and she sang for Pope John Paul the second at the Olympic Stadium in Montreal. And she really evolved from there and your music has been very, like, again, listening to the lyrics of her songs are really, really good. I can't tell you that I felt that way when I was in Quebec, necessarily, but I did go see her in concert. And she was pretty good. I really liked her energy. She has a lot of energy. And she's kind of different when she speaks in French. And it's kind of like, very familiar. And I don't know if that helps with music. But for me, sometimes it's like that familiar. Familiarity really helps me connect winning artists. Yeah, so listening to like, I gotta go old school. This even before me in some ways, like James James Taylor has great lyrics, great songs that I really, really liked. So James Taylor is another local from Massachusetts. So good guy. So I know this is only coming out on April 28. So your first single will be out already? Mm hmm. Can you tell me more about it?

Morgan Beard: 57:34

Yes, definitely. So I guess I haven't actually explained the whole thrust of the project. But oh, please do. Yeah. So this is my debut visual EP. So it's also going to be told through music videos, in addition to the songs, it's called elemental. And it uses the four elements fire, water, earth and air to tell a story of personal transformation. And so fire is the beginning, fire is like, we're in the flames, things are not going well. We're in the midst of a toxic relationship that is just like that push pull, like, I'm really drawn in. But it's kind of dangerous. It's too much, I'm not really getting what I need out of it. It's just kind of, it's that that feeling of like chemical dependency, that you can feel with another person on just chemistry, but there's not the you're not actually meeting emotionally, they're not giving you what you need, or they abandon you. So fire tells that story of just being in the heat of that moment, and how it can be all consuming and you lose yourself in it. And then water which will also be out that one is about letting yourself cry, letting yourself grieve, being in sadness after something dissolves that you were really invested in and discovering that you can survive your own emotions. On the 22nd, the third song Earth will come out. And that is about recognizing your own internal strength, and that you don't need you can break away from old patterns. And you discover through water through letting yourself confront your own emotions and being with yourself at that deep intimate level that you are strong as hell. And you don't need any of that other stuff. And air is the last song. And that one is really just about the liberation of realizing like you, you have yourself and that's all you need. And that one that one's my baby. We just shot that one a couple of weeks ago, and I can't wait to share the whole project because it's, it flows together. I've connected all the songs with like natural sound interludes. So it kind of emulates this cycle of nature and the cycle of evolution that we go through as we move through our emotions and that's really kind of the the whole thrust of the project

Steve Bisson: 1:00:03

and air would be out when do you know?

Morgan Beard: 1:00:06

So Truthfully, I'm kind of still making that part up as I go along the whole EP will be no

Steve Bisson: 1:00:12

nose. No one listens no on

Morgan Beard: 1:00:15

May 27 Is the whole EP, and I haven't really decided yet if I'm going to release, like, I'm gonna release probably the song, but I might hold the video back for the whole EP so that it's like something new rather than just like, Okay, now it's all out again, in a different like format with a different cover. But yeah, listening to it all back to back to back to back. It's, it's crazy. It's taken me like three years to make 15 minutes of music. It's really cool. Yeah, it's the process. It's the process. It's it has a really cool flow. And each song is really different. There's the through line of kind of like, my voice and the structure, the pop structure. But each song really tries to capture the element that it's about, and using the qualities and the sounds of what is that? What is the tone? And what is the nature of that element. So they're all inherently quite different?

Steve Bisson: 1:01:11

Well, I'm gonna make sure to link all that to my show notes. And as you grow and become even more proficient at your music, I sure hope that you don't forget about us. And I would love to have you back on because I think that there's about 20 Other questions that I had, that I skipped. And I could talk about music for hours. But I know this is finding your way through therapy, not talking about music. So I want to thank thank you because I the honesty, everything came through so amazingly well. And it's always great to have a guest like you who's just authentic and real. And I really appreciate that. So thank you.

Morgan Beard: 1:01:55

Thank you so much. I mean, you set the stage for that being yourself as well. But that that's really meaningful to me. Thank you so much.

Steve Bisson: 1:02:02

Well, I think they will have to have you back sooner rather than later. Amazing. I

Morgan Beard: 1:02:06

would love that.

Steve Bisson: 1:02:07

Thank you. Well, this concludes episode 52 and season three of finding your way through therapy Morgan Baird. Thank you. I can't say enough about her music. So please go check it out. And so I can't wait for you to listen to the next episode, which will be with Jane Caitlin again. And that will be the premiere episode of season five. So thank you for your support and can't wait to start season five. Please like, subscribe or follow this podcast on your favorite platform. A glowing review is always helpful. And as a reminder, this podcast is for information, educational, and entertainment purposes. If you're struggling with a mental health or substance abuse issue, please reach out to a professional counselor or therapist for consultation.