E.86 Why You Should Embrace The Suck With Dr. Neeta Bhushan

In this episode, we meet Dr. Neeta Bhushan, author of the new book : "That Sucked: Now What?".  Neeta discusses mental toughness and how people survive these moments and their common characteristics.  She also shares personal stories, including her family, particularly losing her mother to cancer.  She used this loss as a way to demonstrate how we can rise above the suck, build strong coping mechanisms, as well as the importance of emotional health and its importance. Neeta  explains why it's so hard to get back up when stuff goes down, and how to navigate the five stages of the Fly Forward Framework.

Her book, "That Sucked: Now What?" can be purchased by clicking here.

You can reach Neeta on her website by clicking here. 

Transcript

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Steve Bisson: 0:02

Hi and welcome to finding your way through therapy. I'm your host, Steve Bisson The goal of this podcast is to demystify therapy, what can happen in therapy, and the wide array of conversations you can have in therapy. I also talked to guests about therapy, their experience with therapy, and how psychology is present in many places in their lives. I also share personal stories. So please join me on this journey about there. Hi, and welcome to episode 86 of finding your way through therapy. I'm your host, Steve Bisson. If you haven't listened to Episode 85 yet, please go back and listen, Brad was so amazing. We talked about the Department of Correction what correctional staff go through, and how to reduce the stigma of mental health among other things as well as a personal story about his daughter. So please go back and listen to that. But episode 86 will be with Dr. Neeta Bhushan. I hope I get it right. She'll tell me at the interview, I'm sure. Anita is a co founder of the global grit Institute, a mental health training platform for leader and coaches. She's a co founder of the Dharma Coaching Institute training 1000s to live their best lives, and a thriving coach in her own right. Neetha has helped 1000s of people move past her heartbreaks failures and disappointments. Anita also just released a book. It's out now. It's called that sucked. Now what? How to embrace the joy in chaos and find magic in the mess. I can't wait to talk about that book. I can't wait to talk about many, many things, including audacious resilience. And here is the interview. Well, Hi, and welcome to finding your way through therapy. This is episode 86 of the podcast but YouTube episode number 22. And I'm so excited today because I have Anita Bhushan, they get it right.

Dr. Neeta Bhushan: 1:54

You did. I did. There's usually an invisible ah, and Anita. So let's meet that. But that's fine. Tuition is great.

Steve Bisson: 2:03

th in French don't exist. So that's my excuse.

Dr. Neeta Bhushan: 2:08

That is very true. It does not exist, right. And in French, you would say my last name Wu Shan. And that's what I

Steve Bisson: 2:14

was tempted to say so.

Dr. Neeta Bhushan: 2:17

But yes, my apartment.

Steve Bisson: 2:19

Anita has released her book yesterday. So we're getting her like the day after her release. I'm so excited about this. And I can't wait for you guys to hear more about it. It's called that sucks. But now what? And it's gonna be available on Amazon and other places, including her website, which we're going to talk about. But Nika. Welcome.

Dr. Neeta Bhushan: 2:41

Good job. Thanks, Steve. So good to be here. Very, very excited to pour into your community today.

Steve Bisson: 2:46

It's interesting, because before our interview, I started researching you because that's what I like to do. And I went through, you know, listening to podcasts and went to your website and went to your Instagram, went to your YouTube, and it was such, you're such an amazing woman. And I feel like I know you through all these things now. But I'm assuming my audience doesn't know you. So I'd like you to tell people more about yourself. So please go ahead.

Dr. Neeta Bhushan: 3:11

Yeah, so I'm a former cosmetic dentist, you probably wouldn't be able to tell who or maybe who had because they always say that my teeth glow in the dark. Or at least that's what my kids say now. And I'm a mama of two and I am a recovering perfectionist. And I've been through a lot of life in my Oh, I want to say very, very young years. But I have really been so fascinated about human dynamics. And I love connecting the dots between our emotional health or mental health, how to build resiliency. And I am the author of several books. Obviously my latest one that suck now what how to embrace the joy and chaos and find magic in the mess is out now. And you can get it at that sucked now. what.com. And I am a transformational speaker, Keynote Speaker I, a serial entrepreneur have founded several organizations in the intersection of personal growth and coach training and discovering your dharma so that we can all live lives that are on purpose. And I'm super excited to talk to you today.

Steve Bisson: 4:28

Well as a practicing Buddhists who booted follow Buddhist principles, I know what Dharma is, but how about you share with the audience just in case they don't know what dharma means? Yeah.

Dr. Neeta Bhushan: 4:37

So Dharma is really I mean, my background is Indian and Filipino. My parents were immigrants. My dad was from India and my mom was from the Philippines and dharma is in a Vedic or Ayurveda, the essence of one's soul and one's souls purpose. And what you're meant to be doing here on this planet, you know, The Japanese have a different name for it, the Japanese call it your iki. Guy, your fulfilment of one's life, which is like the intersection of your contribution, your gifts, your North Star, which you're good at the legacy you want to leave. So that's the arena that I love to play with.

Steve Bisson: 5:19

So is that how you go from a cosmetic dentists to what you're doing now? I mean, how do we do that transition? Like, it's like, you're like, I want to do therapy. But let's start off with dentistry. I want to be doing a coach, I'm gonna go through that district. How does that work?

Dr. Neeta Bhushan: 5:33

So first, you have to you have to start as like a stand up comedian, because that's obvious. If you want to be a dentist. No, I'm just kidding. So dentistry. Dentistry really starts with the idea that you are born and raised with parents who are like, doctor, dentist, lawyer engineer. And that was the only thing in my periphery growing up getting that stable job getting that notable job getting the opportunity that it's going to be safe, because our parents came here. You know, many times they have the, you know, the rags to riches kind of story. My dad did not have that he actually was an entrepreneur. And he wanted a different life for himself. He left India at a certain age and lived in Nepal for a few years, he started a bar in Nepal. And what was really interesting was he didn't want anything to do with a family, a family inheritance, if you will, my my grandfather was a diplomat in India, and died early. And so my father actually left and he was like charted his own path. So I feel like in many ways, I kind of did the same thing, even though he probably didn't want me to. And so he always preached education legacy, and that was kind of the building blocks of how I grew up. And so working with my hands was a big thing. And I actually grew up early. So at 10 years old, my mom got really sick. And that kind of spearheaded my journey of woof, a lot of resiliency, adversity, setbacks and sucky moments, before I was 19. So that really kind of spearheaded my journey into medicine. And because my very, very first job outside of scooping ice cream,

Steve Bisson: 7:36

that's an important job for the important job.

Dr. Neeta Bhushan: 7:40

Summer months, shout out to Big Dipper in Chicago, Navy Pier. I was 14 doing that. And then I also got a job working at a dental office. And so because my mom was actually sick of cancer, she was sick with cancer. And she had battled that for six years. And then she passed on. So at 16 I lose my mom, at 17 I lose my brother. And at 19 I lose my dad. And so, Jesus, yeah, yeah. So So I needed to hold on to something that was going to keep me stable. And the only thing that I had really this entryway for in two was dentistry because I was working. And this is the comedic part. Okay, Steve, and your audience will really love this. The person that I worked for his name was Dr. Horrible, literally. So now you get it when I say stand up comedian, right? I'm not making this up. It's true. Shout out to Dr. H. But he was no. It's a Polish last name, actually. And so

Steve Bisson: 8:50

another joke that there it goes there too. But since we're not doing stand up, I'm not going there.

Dr. Neeta Bhushan: 8:56

So he taught me so much about having the intimacy of having people be okay with you. And because I was going through so much internally, as a young person, I didn't know how to channel it. My dad when we lost my mom, he didn't really know how to be there as an Indian father, losing his Filipino wife. And so a lot of my grief and my anguish and just kind of these displaced feelings and emotions that I had no idea how to process. I literally started, you know, making jokes and not that I was known as a funny person, but just being really warm and channeling my energy to people that didn't want to have a root canal on Saturdays. And so and they were a lot older than me and I was I actually learned at that time like this is how you gain validation. And this feels really good. Because I don't have to tell people that like my life's kind of sucking in the background and people are dying around me that I could actually focus on the slivers of joy in life. And so that's really what started my journey as maybe a pseudo coach at the time, which I didn't even know. But, you know, I would sit them down, I would take, you know, the patients that would come in on Saturdays, sit them down, and Dr. Horrible would come in. Sounds would come in and, and we'd sit with them and, you know, do their root canal. And then I would, I would be hanging out and reading magazines on a Saturday. But that was the foray of what began this, this initial love affair of being able to take care of people and being able to have them feel seen and see, you know, their confidence that maybe they didn't really have, because I became a cosmetic dentist. And so the turning point for me though, was I, all of those years and years and years and decades of displaced emotions had to go somewhere. So my coping mechanism was in my love life was staying in really toxic and long relationships that didn't really have an expiration date, they often overlapped. And I was very codependent. And that led me to a very tumultuous and big, huge dark, wake up call on December 31 2011. And I had to finally step up, and stand up for who I was in this relationship and for my life, and really step out of that situation. So I would say that was probably the bravest day of my life to leave, and really allow myself to fall apart, allow myself to dry heave cry, if feel the full enormity of the emotions that I had been positing up for a very, very long time, and allowing everyone around me to, you know, see that I wasn't perfect, that I was also broken. And that's actually okay, because this is where we pick up the pieces. And this is where we begin to heal. And so that set me off on a different trajectory of life,

Steve Bisson: 12:09

you know, that there's so many things that came to mind, first of all of your authenticity, because that's kind of how I work. And so being authentic is also being funny, because you're just gonna laugh at yourself, you're gonna be able to relax. It's just I get

Dr. Neeta Bhushan: 12:22

that energy from you Tuesday. That's why we can have this conversation.

Steve Bisson: 12:27

That's what I felt for you. Because when I should share with my audience knows my best friend died in a fire when I was 12. And the grieving process in the 1980s is, well, you have a game Saturday, you better be ready. He's not going to be there. And that was my grieving process. And again, I don't blame anyone. That's just what's the what's the wiggle German, a little bit zeitgeist of the time. But you know, when you go through all that, eventually I believe in going to therapy. That's what helped me really get through a lot of this stuff. Did you ever go to therapy? I mean, that's a lot. Dad, mom and brother between 16 and 19. That's a lot of loss.

Dr. Neeta Bhushan: 13:03

A lot of loss. On one time. Yeah. Yeah, we did. We had to, I think that there was no way out, especially when you experience sudden loss a year after your mom dies, because there was nothing wrong with my middle brother. He was perfectly fine. The only thing he was really close to my mom. So I think energetically, spiritually, that's kind of the place that we're at right now is he just wanted to be with her. And it gives me solace. But yeah, we started out group therapy, we started out, we did all of the things and honestly, I didn't see and experience the real fruits of it until honestly a decade later, when I would actually have my full breakdown and awakening after the abusive relationship. So then in my 30s, so I started out therapy as a teenager, but I was mad angry at the world. It was so fresh, so raw, I think a lot of practitioners that I sat with, they just didn't know because people kept if you think about it kept dying every year. And then I had to focus myself on on school. And that's really what I that was the channeling it was like, I'm not going to have people feel bad for me. I'm not gonna have people. And this was the mantra. This was my mantra. And it was such a huge coping mechanism because then it became, I'm going to overwork I'm going to over communicate, I'm going to overdo I'm going to over give because I want to prove my worth that I can sit at the table and I'm not broken. So that perfect and imperfect and nothing's wrong with me because I've Yeah,

Steve Bisson: 14:42

exactly. Nothing's wrong.

Dr. Neeta Bhushan: 14:43

Nothing's wrong with me. I can hide it. I can hide it. You see, you see these teeth?

Steve Bisson: 14:48

Perfectly. That's what I thought.

Dr. Neeta Bhushan: 14:51

And yeah, until I couldn't hide it anymore. And I had to like, I went through all sorts of aromatherapy EMDR Cymatics energetic psychedelics I mean, all of the ways it took me on a on pretty much a goose chase across with like 45 countries, I started interviewing people because I was just so curious on how more so how they faced adversity and how they processed it, but then also how they were still able to be successful. And because I really wanted to know that for myself, how a lot of folks after tremendous loss and heartache and, and failures and setbacks that they could still rise. And what was that characteristic. And out of that research over 500 people resiliency was number one. And so much so that I My first book was called Emotional grit and grit. I used as an acronym, to grow, reveal, innovate and transform. Because I knew that I had my stories in my first chapter, as I call it of my life. But I wasn't going to lead with those I wasn't going to be this champion for in talking about domestic violence, even though I started an organization. But I didn't, I did not want that to be my narrative. I wanted people to feel empowered, and feel that they could actually be the driver's seat of whatever next chapter they wanted to author, which then became my purpose, because then I started talking about it and in several different ways. And that really became the through line.

Steve Bisson: 16:34

Having I'm a EMDR practitioner, you have to go through it in order to be an EMDR. practitioner. So I get it, I certainly get it. I haven't done psychedelics yet. Well, and I'm okay with that. I'll survive with my therapist. For now. If I need it, I'll go for it. Believe me, I have nothing. Nothing's below me or above me. I'm just the same. But you know, one of the things that I really liked, what you said is that you gotta be resilient. And how does someone develop that resiliency? How does someone become resilient? This I mean, it's very difficult to be resilient in the situations, you lose three family members, or you lose touch with people that meant a lot, or you're in an abusive relationship, and you've been isolated, and you don't know where to go. I mean, how does someone develop a resiliency through all of that?

Dr. Neeta Bhushan: 17:21

Yeah, I love that you brought that up, because there's two different frameworks that I spoke speak about in the book. And the first one is how you fly forward. And in order to fly forward, well, we need to have a fall, right? We can't just start flying. Even though some people think that we can bypass some of our setbacks and we can just shove it under a rug. Or we can like you go to the game on Saturday, and pretend like everything's okay, we can go. And for years, I was going and for years, I thought I had like, shoved everything under a rug, done my bare minimum of therapy and talk therapy and all of those things. But I wasn't really embodying it. It wasn't fully like, I saw my parents die of diseases, medical diseases, that really took them to a different place. And I felt like, there is something missing to really connect the dots around our emotional health and our mental health. And it was just the through line, I wasn't taught how to process my emotions. When I was young, I was told you're strong, you're tough, Big Girls Don't Cry. And so for years, and as I'm sure many young boys, now having two small kids, you know, I'm like re parenting myself at this stage. And I'm saying, Okay, before I act in the heat of like, the humanity of me, as a mom, at this point, I'm like, Okay, I'm not going to pass that down. I'm not going to say stop crying. Even though I want to, I'm going to take my moment and I'm going to breathe, and I'm going to center myself. And I'm going to here's the thing, everyone, I'm going to have an anchor. And for all of those years during my tough moments, my anchor was an perhaps we can argue if it served me or not, but my anchor was, I am not going to have anybody feel bad for me. That was the anchor. That was the anchor, it got me through but we need to have some sort of an anchor. Now if I were to do it again, I'd probably say something different. Like, okay, it's okay to break down. It's okay to take the time to grieve. And it's okay to take the time to experience the depths of that grief. You know, when I got through my first marriage, every single day, I set aside 15 minutes to just grieve that loss every day. 15 minutes and you know, with my therapist, it was like, all right. cry as much as you can. I was in the parking lot. And I own the building, I own the dental office. But I felt so small during those times because I was like, Alright, this is like, so big do I really have to go in today, but it was in those moments that number one, we need to have an acre. Or two, we need to have grace for ourselves. And so when you have a fall, which is the first stage, we then start to recognize that there's a change that we need to make, we're either going to stay in this or we're going to leave, either we're going to make a different decision. Or we're going to say, You know what I can I can bear with us a little bit longer. But there is an action, there is an ignition. So that's the ignition stop, that stage two is the ignition to really understand, well, what's I need to make a change in my life. Most people who aren't ready to make that change, it's too scary. It's too big. They're going to keep going in circles. But that's the ignition and in the ignition gives rise. So stage three is the rising. So how do you build the audacity of your resilience, you have to be brave enough to rise. So that's step three, meaning take those baby steps. So for me, it was saying no to the relationship for me, it was getting a restraining order and actually being honest about what happened instead of trying to shove it under a rug. And then when we get a little bit more confident in our new reality of life, we can then start to magnify, magnify who we want to be magnify in terms of getting the help. So getting therapy, interviewing therapists and seeing Ooh, does okay, maybe this person is in alignment with me, maybe this isn't. Getting a therapist is like dating somebody, you have to see if it's like the right fit. It kind of is, well, at least in my experience, because some people might be okay in a certain season and stage of your life. And then you can kind of move on to perhaps maybe another person, maybe you're one of those who serial monogamists, who like to have your same same therapist for a very, very long time. And that's cool, too. But then we get into the thriving stage and thriving means it doesn't mean that it's going to be like all roses and peaches and rainbows all day long. No, it means that, all right, you have this certain acceptance, that you know what your flaws are, you know that sucky moments are going to happen. But now you have certain tools. Now you know how to center yourself. Now you know how to ground yourself. Now you know how to regulate your emotions. So you're not going to get fiery, you're not going to go into blame and spiral into the victimhood or the victim mindset like we would usually do. We know that, okay, this is a tough season. I've got my practices, and I share quite a few of these emotional release practices in the book. And you know that this isn't about me anymore. It's about other people. It's about sharing it on a podcast. It's about volunteering at a local organization. It's about paying it forward for other people.

Steve Bisson: 23:19

And I think that what, you know, the first thing that came to mind when you were talking about all that it's okay not to be okay. Yeah, when people are struggling with stuff, they're like, I should be okay, this should be over it. I should, should should. And again, like, you know, shoulds don't exist. And I laugh because, you know, therapists that you said, like dating. I don't know how much my licensing board would like me to say that. But one of the things I say you don't have to agree, you don't have to agree, or No, I certainly agree. I'm just gonna use a different analogy. I'm not everyone's cup of tea, as I see you drinking your water. I'm not everyone's cup of tea. And that's okay, fine. You're right cup of tea. I'm that there's nothing wrong with that. If you say, You know what, Steve, you're not a good match. Or you can say it however you want. It's okay. And I think that that's when you talk about being audacious around these things. It's being able to say to people, hey, you know what, you're not my fit. It's nothing personal. And if it is personal, and you got to get something like that, restarting then yes, you do it. But I always tell people if you reject me, it's not like Steve, you're a bad person. No, I'm not a good fit for you. And I tell people not not personalizing that stuff. So I agree with you. I just like I said my licensing board saying that it's like dating they might be like

Dr. Neeta Bhushan: 24:30

they're not going to appreciate that analogy. No, I think that in what you just shared the idea that yeah, it's okay to say no. And I think a lot of us Hello, former recovering you know, perfectionist here and recovering people pleaser. I think it was for years. I was so afraid to rock that boat. I would not say anything. I would just kind of coast because that was expected of me to be a good girl in my home because There's so much chaos going around outside, like you couldn't dare to ruffle any more feathers because it was already so chaotic. So it's like, Alright, here's how you keep the peace. And anyways, good girls are poised in have a lot of grace and they don't rock the boat anyway. And so I think I had to really learn how to be okay with my anger with my rage and actually carving a space out so that I can express that in a healthy way. And I think for you know, a lot of women and even men, I couldn't firm for years, I couldn't even hold other people's anger and rage, I would get really scared. Of course, I had PTSD from a relationship around it. But though, all of our emotions have a place to exist, and the it's why I talk about the duality of the emotions. And I never really understood it until, I mean to its full capacity until I actually had kids, where it's like, whoa, they're screaming and crying in one moment, and then you're screaming and crying because you can't control it, because it's just like an emotional wreck. And then they go to sleep. And then what are you doing? I'm taking my phone, and I'm looking at all of their pictures. And I'm like, Oh, my God, this is like the cutest thing ever. And then my husband comes in the room. And he's like, I thought you needed a break. What are you doing? Like still looking at photos of your kids? And they're sleeping? Like I thought you wanted to take your break. And so it's it because it's not black or white? There is this living of like, yeah, it's chaotic. It's messy. And you're so much joy also that like live in the same plane. And I think going back, so for years of my grief and the darkness and the sadness, there were slivers of having a crush on the barista at Starbucks, getting coffee while I had to go back to the hospital to see my mom. But but there were moments that I would still get butterflies in my stomach, passing the hall and seeing somebody else, you know. So it's like inviting those moments of like, reminding you the humanity that you actually can experience those things. That's pretty cool.

Steve Bisson: 27:11

My coaching system is the emotional management, coaching. And I talked about how you have, you know, we're socialized, and again, sorry for the big stereotype, women can cry or be happy, but that's about it. Men can be angry or be happy. But that's about it. We don't talk about fear. We don't talk about disgust. We don't talk about surprise, nevermind a secondary emotion. Because your fear might hide anger, your anger might hide, surprise, and so on and so forth. I'm not going to go into all the details here. But I get what you're saying. And we're so socialized as to how it's going to be. You have butterflies you have situations in life where they're going to just occur and just met like when you talk about it, all I can think of is it really seems that when you think about the flight forward, the ignition the rising, it's all about just like moving forward and acknowledging yourself and I don't know if that's how you really meant it. But you know, that's what I get from this book is that you really have to acknowledge yourself

Dr. Neeta Bhushan: 28:08

well and acknowledging yourself in the many stages and you're you're so right about like, oh, god forbid somebody has a screaming fit or like, you know, those memes that go viral of of a woman breaking down in the grocery store. Well, yeah, she's not having she may be having a psychotic break. But maybe because she's never been allowed to express the intensity of those emotions and thank God for like rage rooms now where we could throw stuff like when I was younger, my you know, my dad allowed us to get like different vases and get it from like the dollar store. But we were throw it on the floor just so that we could we could like release, anger and frustration and I'm sure it was probably helpful for him too, as an Indian man to let those feelings out. But I think that there is a place and I think that when we allow multiple facets of our, our different emotions to show, then we can start to normalize it and I'm all about like, yeah, normalizing all of the fields, which is why the subtitle is how to embrace the joy in chaos and find magic in the mess because life can get messy and it's not supposed to be you know, perfect. A perfect is boring anyway, and there's no real like, there's what is the definition of that to begin with? But I think there's something to be appreciated.

Steve Bisson: 29:38

In my coaching and my therapy, if someone comes in I just want to be normal. I said, you ain't aiming high are you? I hate the normal thing and what's normal, I just don't believe in that stuff. You can have shaved head into beard and be a very in touch with your emotions. And yet at the same time, there are days where I just want to pull the two hairs that are left on my head. it. And it's okay to have both and embracing all that. So I just thought you're saying the stand up comics thing, I tend to put that in put a little humor into podcasts because it's important to think about as a human thing. Well, and

Dr. Neeta Bhushan: 30:14

one of the ways to build resiliency is to make fun of yourself. Oh, wait. And that was also went part of my therapy. Actually, I took an improv class, which then led to stand up comedy class, which then led to you know, another one of those Second City classes. I think you guys might have it in Boston,

Steve Bisson: 30:36

was second city is really Chicago. Okay, well, yeah, a shout out to Chicago, shout

Dr. Neeta Bhushan: 30:40

out to Chicago. And that's like the keys if you want to ever be on like Saturday Night Live, or your startup there. But for me, it was like, let me build my emotional capacity to feel and to be in a space to be witnessed by other people and not feel judged, and be fully accepting in like, the different languages that you'll speak on just whatever random exercise that you would do. This is improv. And then the the pressure to actually do a five minute set and actually be funny. Yeah, that was, those are some really huge stretch goals. And it really added to building that resiliency as well.

Steve Bisson: 31:23

It's just like dating, right? We got put on a five minutes show. And, you know, I think about Amy Poehler who says that being a stand up comedian means there's a lot of pain behind it. And she if you read her book, and I'm not plugging her book by any stretch, but she talks about that I know, he's mentioned Second City, I just had to mention, Amy, Amy, I

Dr. Neeta Bhushan: 31:44

mean, a lot of a lot of those guys, they know and a lot of comedians, they do use comedy to mask a lot of the pain. And because comedy is therapeutic. And also, there's a way to hide behind some of the shit that has really gone down in people's lives. And if you've seen some comedy specials, and I would actually do this, I feel like you'd probably do this too, but and how people can actually talk about their stories. And it's so like, whoa, they've been through a lot, but now they're able to channel it in a way where it's, it's friggin hysterical. It's so funny.

Steve Bisson: 32:24

I think that that's what we got to do. Taylor Tomlinson is one of my favorite and she's very open about her mental health and her struggles. And it's really cool to hear her. If you're again, I feel like I'm plugging people. I am not, I'm just but it's just stuff that I see about stand up comedian, just being honest about the stuff in through, because you got to laugh at some point.

Dr. Neeta Bhushan: 32:43

Yes. So can we actually give ourselves permission to laugh at what sucked. And that's my, my invitation for the book. And really, how I structured it is to to enjoy and find the joy because for the first two decades of my life, it was so dark. It was so dark. In fact, I mean, I didn't even give myself permission to laugh at certain points, because I'm like, Oh my gosh, we're supposed to be sad. Like, we're supposed to be not having fun, even though Well, yeah. Was I watching TV? Was I going to the movies on the weekend? Yeah, but did I have all of this enormous guilt attached to it, and then how I even interacted with my brother, because he was 14 and I was 19. Going through this very ambiguous stage of life. I didn't really know what I was doing. And so you know, later on to even have compassion for yourself, because there's another concept that I talked about in the book called The bounce factor. And this is a great analogy, because many times, we will think that building resiliency is we've got to be tough, and we've got to be strong. But guess what, if we take a glass that is strong, and we let it go, it just shatters into a million pieces, right? But if we take a ball, and we let it go, a basketball, any sort of ball, it is going to bounce, it's going to bounce, because there is that agility there is that there's a little bit of that flexibility that's going to flow. And so to allow ourselves to maybe go into these four different ideas. And the first one is, look at your upbringing. What was really talked about in your household? Were you raised by helicopter parents? Were you raised by Tiger parents? Were you given agency to speak your voice at the dinner table? Or were you told that Alright, listen to your elders because they know exactly what is good for you. And so that's number one. And number two is what about your exposure to good stress? Now the exposure to good stress, there's so much research behind this But many times when we are so afraid of certainty, and most of us need to know the exact steps, the next steps going on, we're not going to lean out of our what's our comfort zone. And so stretching your capacity for good stress or inviting good stress, it could be taking another route to work, it could be walking an extra 15 minutes, it could be going to bed an hour earlier, but actually exposing yourself to good stress, having a difficult conversation, leaning into the discomfort, actually allowing yourself to feel whatever is feeling weird, and not settling, instead of picking up your phone and distracting yourself with the dopamine. That's an invitation for good stress. The third and the fourth part is your emotional capacity. I've already talked about it talks about it for like Second City, right? Your ability to stretch your ability to feel what you're actually feeling. And then the last thing is your radical self awareness to actually check in and do a check in to say, does this actually feel really good? Or is this me? Or is this somebody else to somebody else, just like, inject their desires and thoughts for me? Or is this coming from a place of, I actually need to say no to this i that is actually like Steve's not a fit for me, or he is a really good fit for me.

Steve Bisson: 36:28

And I think that what you just said, I'll go back about get uncomfortable with being uncomfortable, get comfortable with being uncomfortable, I should say, I apologize. I really liked that. And the radical stuff is also very important to me, because you need to accept yourself for who you are and what you're feeling. I think about that. How do we develop the coping mechanisms in order to get there? Because I think that that's the hard part for some people is that they feel like, well, it's happening to me. So how am I going to get out of this? So do you have any suggestion as to other coping mechanisms that people can use?

Dr. Neeta Bhushan: 37:01

Yes, absolutely. So in the book, I have an exercise. And actually, when you all get the book, that sucked now what.com, it actually comes with a 44 page workbook. It's like a full deep guide. It's very interactive. There's not only it's colorful, I mean, there's so many different prompts and so many different ways to spark your healing journey. But it goes a little bit deeper. And one of the exercises that's actually in the guidebook that supports one of the concepts in the book is, if we want to build good coping mechanisms, we have to look at well, what's our do, we have a resistance to building good stress, because many times after a setback after a challenge, after something that's been really difficult to process, it's so easy to numb ourselves, it's so easy to bury ourselves in work, it's so easy to distract ourselves, because we want to avoid pain, like the plague. But what if my invitation the next time something big and hard comes up? What if we are able to make a list, make a list of all of the ways that we can challenge this ability to invite good stress. So for example, if let's just say, you go out on a date, or maybe you get your heart broken, instead of yelling at that person, or cursing at them, or ridiculing them, or trying to make them feel small to make yourself feel good or going and Netflix thing and in binging on ice cream on the couch for a whole week or whatever you typically do. Make a list and write down maybe some of the other ways instead of actually going to Netflix, you're like, okay, maybe I can actually journal out what I'm trying to avoid. So essentially do the opposite. So if you're like, Okay, I'm going to really tell this person how I feel because I'm just irate right now. Take out your journal, and actually start writing it in your journal. And maybe you can, at the end of it, crumple the paper and take a you know, take a match and create your own little ritual, and you can burn it. So I have several of these that you can actually do, which is the opposite of what our human tendency and our human nature tends to do, which can get us slowly out of the spiral. Because many times it's easy for us to go back into our same behaviors. And many times we actually need a guide and a compass and kind of like our North Star of what are the building blocks and what are the baby steps to get into the this next way for me to a experience my feelings, acknowledging them, and writing a new path forward. That may be the exact opposite like You can actually write Okay, well, old Anita would have probably done this, like, go to the person's house and do all of the things. But maybe new need that can actually say, You know what, I'm going to honor this, I'm going to sit with this because this feels really freakin uncomfortable. But I know that, all right, I'm going to allow this to breathe. Because sometimes the act of not doing anything gives birth to what is next to arrive for you that you've just been masking for years, and in my case, even decades,

Steve Bisson: 40:39

and I think that what you said is just perfect for the month of February, you know, us in the northeast, we have like our fireplaces going. So we can write that page, throw it in the fireplace or something like that. So that's, that's great. But I really enjoyed the journal thing, because I've been journaling off and on since 1992. I'm not perfect at it by any stretch, but it helped me get through a whole lot still does to this day. I haven't burned any of them yet. Maybe one day, who knows burning

Dr. Neeta Bhushan: 41:06

is actually a really good practice, we've I've done it in several, you know, whether it's your own little ritual for yourself in a lot of Eastern cultures, I can speak for the, you know, East Indian cultures, but burning and releasing, it's a sense of letting go, which is why they believe in, you know, cremating and you know, kind of goes into a spiritual aspects. But many times, you'll burn incense to clear the energy. Many times lighting a candle for you is a sacred way for really honoring yourself. So these are tiny, little small areas that you can actually, if you're going to burn a piece of paper, have some writings on it, you want to make sure you're safe, obviously. So what I would do is get a bowl of like a large mixing bowl. And this is very easy, you guys can do this. This is not like a tic toc challenge or any of that. So please do not creating a hazard. But what you want to do is have a big bowl, but then just a you know, a cup of water on the side and take your piece of paper you don't if you have fireplace Great, that's even better. Many of you don't. But you can actually what I'm saying is you can actually invite these tiny little rituals, wherever you are to create a really big experience for you, that's an energetic of letting go, whatever it is that maybe you've been holding on. And that's that physical metaphor of taking the lighter or taking the match. And you know, lighting up that piece of paper, letting it go into that mixing ball, and watching it all kind of dissolve. And you're if you're afraid that the flame is gonna get too hot, you have that water and you just pour it into the mixing bowl. And then it's all done. But it's a beautiful way. And then what I would generally do is if it if it's all you know, charcoal li or maybe there's like a little bit of the stuff that's left, I would just take all of it and dump the water in that mixing bowl. If you guys are watching this on YouTube, I'm actually talking about it as well. But then you can put it down in your toilet and just flush it. And then that is that full metaphor of like, Alright, I'm going to release all of this, I'm no longer going to carry it. Another way that I've done it is if you're in the backyard, or can dig it up and just pour it in some dirt. And you guys are in the northeast, so like pack it up with snow, but like then then let it release before the spring,

Steve Bisson: 43:36

I've actually asked my clients to write a letter to their old self forgiving them and also burning it afterwards to kind of like let go of their old self. So I believe in that firmly. So I really like that.

Dr. Neeta Bhushan: 43:46

It's so good. And for those of you who are skeptical around it, I feel that try it because I think that when we are open to trying new exercises and by the way, I have so many more of these throughout the book. This is just like one physical tangible one that I think that is going to be really fruitful for you all. Because I think that when we create these new rituals, it can can be so healing in so many different ways. If we're open to it.

Steve Bisson: 44:12

I can make your book you This is your third book, fourth book. Wow. I can't wait for people to get to your book. As we wrap up here. How do people get in touch getting the book obviously we would go to your website that's second out what.com Or your website right? Which is

Dr. Neeta Bhushan: 44:31

Yeah, so Anita Bhushan, so that sucked. Now what.com You can actually go to and it actually connects to my website Anita Bhushan, so, and you can get a whole download of where I'm usually at. I usually spend a lot of time on Instagram, and now I'm trying starting to get onto Tik Tok. We are on YouTube, all of our brave table episodes. The snippets are on YouTube, and you can sign up for our newsletter as well, but when you get the book, you already get access to three bonuses. And one of them is my five day healing practice. And that starts with our relationships, we start out with relationships, we go into our optimal energy so that we're not feeling depleted so that we're not leaking energy everywhere so that we're not burning out. And then we get into talking about how to create abundance and, and manifest the things that we really want in our lives. And then day four, we talk about how to take massive action, despite the discomfort and be brave and courageous in doing so. And then day five, we're just bringing it back to ourselves replenishing ourselves. And so you get that you get the Digital Journal. And you also get a ticket to the that sock now what the virtual book launch party that's going to be released as well.

Steve Bisson: 45:55

Well, I can't wait for people to read it. I certainly enjoyed listening to you. I also know I've listened to your podcast, it's really good. So I hope people go listen to that. But more importantly, I hope they go buy the book with all those bonuses and the self care that goes with that is just truly amazing. So Nissa Lucien, sorry, I got to do it very consciously. And then all I can say is DMD afterwards, right?

Dr. Neeta Bhushan: 46:23

Yes, or DDS, DDS.

Steve Bisson: 46:25

Okay. But I can't thank you enough for this great interview. I hope people go get the book. I strongly suggest that everyone goes there. Go through the website and get it today. Oh,

Dr. Neeta Bhushan: 46:37

you're so awesome. This was so much fun. You're such a great interviewer. Thank you so much, Steve, for having me.

Steve Bisson: 46:42

I thank you for your time. Well, that concludes episode 86 of finding your way through therapy. Thank you Nissa Bhushan. I think I got it right now, please. I'm getting better at names. Great interview, go get a book that sucked. Now watch how to embrace the joy and chaos and find magic in the mess. That will be something that you will not regret. But episode 87. I will continue talking a little bit more about me and my story. So please join us then. Please like, subscribe or follow this podcast on your favorite platform. A glowing review is always helpful. And as a reminder, this podcast is for information, educational, and entertainment purposes. If you're struggling with a mental health or substance abuse issue, please reach out to a professional counselor or therapist for consultation.