Resilience Development in Action

E.103 Unlocking Wellness: Sobriety, Mindfulness, and the Power of Community

• Steve Bisson • Season 8 • Episode 103

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What does it take to overcome substance use, find peace through mindfulness, and create connections that transcend regional boundaries? Join us as we chat with  the two hosts of the podcast "laughing Without Liquor" , Lane Kennedy and Tamar Medford, who share their insights on sobriety, mental health, and the power of community.

Discover the fascinating world of DNA testing and how understanding your genetic profile can lead to personalized changes that support your mental health and wellness. Lane and Tamar discuss the importance of working with a practitioner to interpret results and make meaningful changes in your life. We also explore meditation and mindfulness as accessible tools for managing mental health and why these practices are often overlooked in our educational systems.

In this heartfelt conversation, we reflect on the power of finding community and being kind to one another. Lane and Tamar share insights on how collective support can help us break free from the darkness and embrace a more fulfilling life. Don't miss this candid and enlightening discussion that's sure to leave you inspired and ready to take on the challenges of life with renewed energy and purpose.

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Speaker 1:

Hi and welcome to Finding Your Way Through Therapy. The goal of this podcast is to demystify therapy, what can happen in therapy and the wide array of conversations you can have in and about therapy Through personal experiences. guests will talk about therapy, their experiences with it and how psychology and therapy are present in many places in their lives, with lots of authenticity and a touch of humor. here is your quick tip. Here's your host, steve Bisson.

Speaker 2:

Thank you and welcome to Episode 103. I am so happy that you're here. I hope you listen to Episode 102 with two firefighters Eric Knox, brian Harkins. We talked about a lot of the mental health challenges that firefighters face, as well as possible solution, including spending more time with family, as well as other supports. But in Episode 103, i'm going to talk to two people who have been on their podcast and in the Now What Society. I think they're going to change the name, so don't quote me on that. But Tamara Medford is a relapse prevention strategist, neuro change master practitioner and author and host of Now What. I do believe they're changing the name. Her mission is to empower sober women to create a life so good for themselves they never want to go back to their old way of living. She is also someone who is in sobriety and has been in sobriety for several years.

Speaker 2:

My other guest is going to be Elaine Kennedy. She's also on the Now What podcast. She's the co-host. She's not your ordinary meditation and mindfulness teacher. She's known as a modern day no-nonsense calm maker. Yeah, she kicks ass, that's what I would say. She's helped thousands of stressed out people achieve a renewed sense of deep and interconnectedness, to bring a sense of fulfillment and peace into their lives.

Speaker 2:

I had a lot of fun on their podcast, so I'm sure we're going to have fun. We're going to talk about sobriety, talk about life and other things and also hockey, i'm pretty sure. So I hope you enjoyed the interview. Well, hi everyone, and welcome to episode 103. I'm so excited to have my two guests. They had me on their podcast and we ran out of time. We had a lot of noise and I could talk about substance use forever, but it may not be the thing we could talk about today, but nonetheless I still could talk about that for hours because it's one of my favorite things to talk about. So I have Lane Kennedy here and Tamar Medford. Tamar, we have something in common being born and raised Canadians different parts of Canada.

Speaker 2:

But to explain to people, we are the equivalent of Boston to Seattle. You're out in BC and I am from Quebec. So just to explain it, because some people are like, oh, do you know John from Calgary? I'm like, no, I don't know John from Calgary. And sometimes they'll say, yeah, he wears a hat. Oh, John with the hat, No, still don't know him. So I don't know if I want to put that little Canadian buzz in there, because I think people really feel we're like next door neighbors and we all support each other in the Lannis Morset Things around the fire every night for us. I don't know what the hell people think around here, but nonetheless I'm an American now, so I sold out completely, Still have my Canadian citizenship. Well, welcome both of you.

Speaker 4:

Oh my gosh, it's so good to be with you, steve, Thank you. Thanks for having us.

Speaker 2:

I needed to explain that, because that question comes up way too often for me. Oh, do you know Tamar from Vancouver?

Speaker 4:

No, Yeah, that's such good. You said New York to Seattle, or what did you put it.

Speaker 2:

Something like that. yeah, Yeah, that's like that.

Speaker 4:

Just I have. I've had an awakening around this. Thank you for sharing that.

Speaker 2:

I think it's important because most people think we're all friends and we all know each other. Like no, no, no, we don't, we like each other. but I'm from Quebec and sometimes we're not so liked, but we put up with each other.

Speaker 2:

I always joke around when I moved here. They're like you know. They know most people don't know about Canada. I'm like your distant cousin, you don't really know about me. I show up once in a while and you go. I know a Canadian. But anyway, could go on and on. And there was a research that was done. Sorry, i'm getting off topic here, but I got to share it. So if you put a person from New York and Montreal in a room and then you put someone from Seattle in Vancouver all in the same room, the Americans won't get with the Americans. The Vancouver and Seattle will hang up together and the New York and Montrealers will hang up together.

Speaker 4:

Seriously Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Oh.

Speaker 4:

I love this study. I love this.

Speaker 2:

So basically, you're more inclined to go with your regional area rather than your country of origin.

Speaker 3:

So I can see that west coast.

Speaker 2:

And I think Seattle and Vancouver can get along on so many levels. Not to get Vancouver into playoffs and not Seattle, but anyway, sorry, hockey stuff. Now I'm blabbering along. I know it hurts, for me too. I want Vancouver in, so I can then be really angry at Vancouver. But anyway, i always start the podcast with the same question, and I'm going to start with Tamar right now. Tamar, tell me a little bit about yourself.

Speaker 3:

Well, my name is Tamar Medford. I'm a neuro change practitioner and I really want to help women create a life so good for themselves that they never want to go back to their old way of living. And I did that by overcoming 22 years of addiction to drugs and alcohol And I felt like I had overcome that for a reason And I found that giving back and being of service has really helped to enhance my own recovery and to be able to share that story and get rid of the stigma of addiction, because I think it goes so much bigger than just alcoholism. So I have, through this journey of becoming an entrepreneur, i realized I love building websites, i love doing podcast production and it's really allowed me to discover my purpose right And it's been a fun journey. So that's kind of in a nutshell And I'm a friendly Canadian on the West Coast.

Speaker 2:

I always like my Canadians. They always get a little more promo than others. Now, speaking of which, lane, how about you introduce yourself?

Speaker 4:

Oh my God, i love it. Well, you know what I'm Tamara Medford's friend, that's.

Speaker 2:

That's, hey, we're all And I'm your friend too I sold out. I'm a citizen of both countries, so I'm good.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, so I live in San Francisco, i'm a meditation and mindfulness teacher and I nerd out on DNA a lot. I am a mom of a 13 year old neurodivergent power kid and I have two Irish wool pounds I fell in love with. I fell in love. Did I really just say that? Yeah, i guess I did. I fell in love with meditation out of absolute necessity about 10 years ago, when I had a serious rage breakdown and my life changed, and so now I'm on a mission to help people explore becoming more mindful and understanding their DNA so they can live a much healthier, happier life.

Speaker 2:

Well, you bring up the subject, so now I'm interested. Okay, i know more about DNA, because I mean, i know the idea of DNA, but you said you learn a lot from DNA and all that. So let's start there, because I want to go on the whole mindfulness meditation thing too, because that's another great passion of mine. But let's start with DNA.

Speaker 4:

So DNA? I've been obsessed with DNA from when I had my son. My son was born right when the genome project was kind of exploding and everybody was like, ooh, what is it? What's going on? You know, my husband being in tech, he's like should we hop on this train and learn more about it? And I've been a bio hacker for 25 years. So I was like Abso, heck, yes, i'm all in. So I learned about DNA through my son, just kind of rolling with an understanding it, and then I started to see, through this process, that our DNA is a roadmap to who we are Like. I can really look at my son, i can look at myself, i can look at clients and I can see personalities. I can see sleep issues, i can see weight issues. I can see there's so many things that it's crystallized in our DNA, and so that's been my journey with it. I love helping people understand it because it's so complex and there's emergent science. Every day you know new things, new snips, new genes.

Speaker 2:

The way things are moving is so fast now compared to even 10 years ago, so well, the question that comes to mind for me is what's the one thing that you really feel like you from the DNA that you really learned, that you want to share with the world?

Speaker 4:

Well. So because I'm in recovery long-term recovery and I see people suffering from depression, anxiety, these kind of mental obsessions, I can go into somebody's DNA and I can look at certain genes. I can look at their genetic profile and say, well, you've got these snips that are not really functioning at the proper level, So let's make some lifestyle changes to support you in not being so anxious or not sleeping well, Because when we can make these kind of lifestyle shifts that people don't really think about they don't really think about it Then that can change the way that the gene is operating, which then is going to change that behavior.

Speaker 2:

Thank you, And I forgot to congratulate both of you for your sobriety Congratulations. That's important to me a lot because it's definitely something to note, but that's good to know that that roadmap can help. And, tamar, i was watching you like nod constantly with everything she was saying. I'm sure you have a few things to say, so you've got the floor.

Speaker 3:

Well, i was a chronic yoyo dieter and I went into these stages where I would start to obsess about what I was eating and I would work out seven days a week and I kept gaining the weight back.

Speaker 3:

And so finally, you know, when Lane and I talked about this whole DNA thing, i'm like, okay, i have to get it done. And since I've gotten it done, we're just digging into it and we're kind of doing it piece by piece. I've learned that caffeine is something that's not good for my body type. I've learned that really high intensity exercise, which is what I've been doing for 30-something years, is not good for my body type, and so I'm now able to eat what I need to eat to get healthy and to lose weight, and I just I wish I had known about this 20 years ago. But I mean, it's a game changer because it's like this is why your body is doing this or not responding to this, and I'm actually eating the foods that I need to eat to get a good sleep, to lose weight and all that kind of stuff. And it wasn't at all what I thought.

Speaker 2:

Well, yeah, Tell us more, because I know I'm curious as to what you thought.

Speaker 4:

You know, what I think it is, steve, is people forget that we are humans and we have this chemistry, like we're working off of all these chemicals. There's biochemistry happening in our body And then we put things into it which has reactions, right? So if I'm just going to use one of the genes that I love so much, one of the DRD2s, which deals with anxiety and depression, and Thank you, okay. So when we're self-medicating through alcohol, through ice cream, through gambling, through self-loathing, whatever it is right, we're kind of dosing that gene and down regulating it, which means we're just continuing the cycle of addiction or continuing that depression or continuing that one behavior, and so I think it's so important now for people to understand that they can actually find out this information. I mean, one good thing about technology Yay, you can look at our genetic profile, we can look at this blueprint and then make some lifestyle changes according to who you are. It's very personalized.

Speaker 2:

And Tamar, you said you did it. Obviously, lane, you're saying you did it too. Where do we get this information? I mean it's not just 23 and me. I mean they tell me. I'm like 50, 50 English and French. How's that for boring Right? But yes, how do we get that stuff?

Speaker 4:

So there are many. Now, you know, over the last, i would say the last three years, four years there's a lot of new companies that have popped up and gone away. I've worked with two that are phenomenal. One of them is three by four. Another one is self-decode. But I think the key thing here is you can get your information, but if you don't know how to transcribe it, forget it. You're clueless, you will just shut down, And that's why finding a practitioner I mean doesn't have to be me, but finding somebody that understands the language of your genetic profile is going to be really important.

Speaker 2:

And, just for the record, we're not getting any money from these companies. No, it was just Lane's favorite companies. I always like to remind people of that, because if there is some stuff like that, i like to be right 100%. Tamar, you said you're going to be doing it. You seem to be also nodding about that stuff. Did you use any of those companies And what? really, to me it sounds fascinating. But I also got to be perfectly honest with you. I'm scared shitless because I'm like, oh my God, now I'm going to give up my caffeine. No way, no way. There's just absolutely no way you people are going to take my caffeine away. So, tamar, you're nodding. So I want to hear more from you.

Speaker 3:

So I used three by four and they give you a lot of information And, like Lane said, right, it doesn't have to be her, but having somebody to be able to go through that step by step with you, because I think we all look for the easy fix. Right, it's like okay, it says I can't do this, so I'm not going to do this. But there's so much more to it And I was scared too. Like I loved my morning coffee, i used to drink Red Bull like crazy before I landed in the hospital. I love my desserts.

Speaker 2:

There's a story right there.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, but one of the things that was really fascinating is my genetics. I'm the type of person that will look at a full plate of food and I want to eat that whole plate, and it doesn't matter if I'm already full, and so to be able to hear that and go oh, i've actually, since learning that, started leaving a little bit on my plate every time And to be able to add things like fish, like there's certain types of seafood that I love. I chicken almost every day and Lane laughs at that. right, because we're always accountable to each other as friends as well. I'm like yeah, i had chicken again and chicken again, but I need more fish, and so my body's basically rusting out And I have worked so hard to create the life that I have today, but to let it all go down the tubes because of my unhealthy eating sometimes or the habits that are very easy to shift.

Speaker 3:

it was like a reality check. I mean, i didn't want to quit drinking. when I quit drinking, i just knew there was no other choice, and I think sometimes we wait until it's way too late, and why not get a blueprint? I'm doing it slow and steady. There's some changes I could make right away in terms of vitamins. I needed a vitamin B. right Like very simple things, but it's so nice having somebody go over it with you because it's a lot of information.

Speaker 2:

And where do we find someone to do that, since Wayne is obviously not going to help me? Who do I call?

Speaker 4:

Yeah, that's functional medicine practitioners and coaches. With three by four. You actually have a directory of people that you can reach out to, which is really, really great. I think there's a new. I think more and more people are starting to raise their hand to say I want to learn about this and I want to become certified in this, i want to add it to my practice, to my coaching. So I think over the next maybe two years, three years, we'll see more practitioners available to help.

Speaker 2:

And Tamar, you brought up the Red Bull story. I need to hear it. And we get no money from Red Bull. Just for your record again.

Speaker 3:

No money. At one point I thought I need to work for Red Bull, but when I first got sober of course I'm replacing one thing with another I actually at first replaced fitness. Right, i ate chicken, broccoli and rice every day. I worked out at the gym six, seven days a week. Now my genetics says don't do that. And it wasn't sustainable, obviously.

Speaker 3:

But Red Bull I started drinking after that because I was trying to replace it And I'm such a go-go person that I want that energy from carbs, from sugar, and Red Bull became my best friend, like those big monster drinks.

Speaker 3:

I would drink two of those a day, plus my coffee in the morning. And I sat at work one day and everybody thought it was funny right, because it was the same thing when I drank, like I was the clown until I was black out and then it wasn't so funny, but yeah, i would just be sitting there drinking it. They'd be like, oh my God, tomorrow, what are you doing? And then one day my whole arm went numb and I had sharp pains in my chest and they rushed me to the hospital and it was actually stress related And the caffeine that I was drinking. They're like you got to give this stuff up, and so that lifestyle that I was doing though that trying to be, i actually learned from my genetics that I need recovery, and I wasn't giving myself any because I'd been living in survival mode for so long.

Speaker 2:

Well, i think that's a good point too. We go into survival mode on a regular basis, right? I think that that's what we all do And for me what you brought it up earlier, lane, and I want to bring it up too I find meditation I don't do it as much as I should, or mindfulness has been a savior for me to just slow my day down and slow my pace. I would love to hear more about meditation and what type of impact that meditation have on your life.

Speaker 4:

Oh my God, it's changed who I am as a human being. It's changed everything. So I'm clean. It's over now, 26 years, and when I first got into recovery they say just stick around, just stay, just stay, your life is going to get better. And yes, my life got exponentially better and all kinds of great things happened. But with that, all kinds of great things happening becomes stress, and I didn't really know how to manage that stress.

Speaker 4:

And when I had my son, i really wasn't planning on being a mother or having a kid or doing any of that. And so when I had him and had postpartum hit me like 5,000 million pounds of rocks and I was dying underneath it. I started having internal rage, and this is when my whole profile changed about me. I was teetering on depression, anxiety, depression, anxiety. Meanwhile inside I'm just screaming and raging at myself. And so when I was in that state, not really knowing how to live and not knowing how to be a mother, i had this breakdown in the Haight-Ashbury district with a man. I got out of my car because he wasn't driving fast enough And he wasn't parking how I wanted him to park, and so I got out of my car, left my son in the car and started screaming at him. And so here I was, having this break, and it was at that moment I thought, oh my God, something's wrong with me, something has to change. And this was the moment where I trans. It was like a transcendental moment, honestly, where I saw myself out of body and knew that something had to change. And I am one of these people who likes to study and read I'm voracious at reading, just let me add it. Give me a good book. And again, like in early recovery, they just said stay, stay, stay, do the work, do the work.

Speaker 4:

And so I did the work, and what I discovered is that meditation and mindfulness are a way of life, it's a way of being, it's a way of slowing down, it's a way of getting into the present moment, which I wasn't able to do right, because I was totally stressed out about what was happening yesterday and all the things that I forgot to do, because I'm so depressed and I can't really manage my son and what's happening in his life, and I was future tripping about how am I going to get through life? So I was never, ever present in my life Meanwhile having this internal rage just build and build and build. And so when I discovered meditation, it was such a breath of fresh air. I did my first prone lay down on my back. Meditation and my life changed.

Speaker 4:

I literally went to a different place where I had. I was like floating in the air and I thought I need to have more of that, because you know what? I'm one of those people that wants more and more and more. So I wanted more meditation and more mindfulness. I really had to learn what was happening in my brain. How was I going from that baited to alpha? How was I dropping from different brain states? How could I do that? How come more people didn't know about this, steve? why don't more people know about this?

Speaker 2:

That's why we all have podcasts here, so that people know about it. That's what I think, and I'll joke you aside. I want to bring up a couple of things that you said that I really really like. So meditation, you know, and I see the sitting Buddha behind Tamar. So for those of you on YouTube, you can go check it out But most people that's what they think about when they do meditation. Like meditation, i got to have my legs crossed on some sort of cushion and go, although, oh, it's very helpful, i'm not against it, but they think that that's what meditation is. So I want to make sure that people knew meditation is not exactly what everyone thinks. Meditation can be as simple, as complex as you wish you wanted to be.

Speaker 4:

Correct.

Speaker 2:

The question is why don't people know more? And I mean, i think that that's a great question to ask you. I'm going to ask you So.

Speaker 4:

I think pandemic world. People really kind of fell into it and everybody became a meditation teacher. Everybody started doing meditation, right, they needed that peace of mind, peace of quiet in their head. So I think the pandemic actually was great for mindfulness and meditation. All those apps started Jesus, there was an app every day coming out for meditation. So I don't think it's not that people don't know about it. Maybe that's not what I should have said. It's why aren't we building this into school systems early, at like five and six year olds, teaching kids how to practice mindfulness and then taking it through elementary, middle school, high school, so it becomes a way of life, so people don't go oh, i can't do that. It's too complex Because, just like you said, steve, it can be just literally gazing out your window, right, just spacing out. I teach my, i work with the police officers here and I say just sit on the toilet for an extra minute, like just start there.

Speaker 2:

I agree. I think that what I tell a lot of people too. You can have mindful moments, I think my clients for walks sometimes, Yeah, And we bring that up and I say whenever I go, it's the same trail. Behind my office in Holliston, Massachusetts there's a beautiful, beautiful rail trail And I say when I'm walking I try to pay attention to one thing I've never noticed before And I'm still present in the moment with you. But I can also like, oh, maybe the cardinal flies by, or the tree is now finally like blooming or what have you. And just learning to do meditation or mindfulness and paying attention to the moment takes you away from all the stuff, because it's noise when you really think about it. But you know, I really like that and the fact that you're teaching police officers right up my alleyway. Myself, I love working with my first responders and I'm a Reiki practitioner Also. I got one to do Reiki with me once, Wow. So I can rest my head on that one for the rest of my life.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, because they were really open to it. But, tamara, i want to get back to you because I do see the sitting boot up behind you.

Speaker 3:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2:

And I'm sure that meditation and mindfulness, or either or both, have had an impact on your life, so I'd like to hear more about it.

Speaker 3:

Definitely. It's something that I used to do quite regularly, probably last year. this year I've started to fall out of it Again. it came back to my health not treating my body, always being tired. And recently, actually this morning, i got up and I had planned to do a workout down in my little dungeon here And I thought, no, you know what, i'm gonna get up early and I'm actually gonna go outside.

Speaker 3:

I didn't bring my music, I just went outside with no music, which anytime I exercise or I walk, i have to have music, because I love it And I do find that I can get into kind of a meditative, relaxed state with music. but I thought I have a whole forest behind me And so I went for a 30 minute walk and I just paid attention to the sounds. And I love meditating like that, because if I just a lot of people I talk to about meditation, they're like I can't lie down for 10 minutes. I'm like neither can I, because I'm like I have to go switch laundry over. I'm feeling a little bit hungry. Maybe I'll go make a snack after this.

Speaker 3:

What am I gonna make for dinner? And so for me, listening to music or guided meditation, if I'm gonna do. that is key. but get outside, go for a walk, hug a tree, you know, and I've. maybe it's because I'm Canadian, steve, but I'm quite calm most of the time And I just find that meditation gets me a little bit more balanced out, because I need it too right. Like I said earlier, i run in survival mode, but that shows up through work just doing too much.

Speaker 2:

Right. But I also think that you said you're Canadian. You know, i see a lot of the Canadians slowly seeping into the American culture in the sense that you need to go, go, go and you gotta produce, produce, produce. And I see that in my friends up in Quebec. I see I have friends in Ontario And to me it's like we're going the right wrong direction in Canada. We gotta go back to our European model, not our American model. No offense to Americans, but that's just the truth. At the end of the day. How do we tell people that that's the lifestyle we gotta get to, and not only because of our DNA and where we gotta be? but this could go to both of you.

Speaker 2:

I don't sit there because it's hard as a therapist and as a coach to always talk about meditation and our mindfulness because they tell me well, that's religion. I mean, if you're gonna be technical about everything, i guess everything is religion. But that's just me. But how do we get people to think differently? You said, why are people doing it? But I think it's for us to make it more palpable. And how do we do that as people who already I'm a practitioner myself how do we get people to think differently about it, either of you, both of you. I wanna hear both your answers frankly.

Speaker 3:

For me personally, i had to start doing it before it was too late. When I quit drinking 11 years ago, i was at that point where I probably could have gone a little bit longer, but I knew I had to make a choice. I can either keep going and die or I can get better, and I feel like so many people need to hear that. Start doing this stuff before it's too late, because it's a lot of people function that way. Oh, i've had a big crisis. Now I have to make a life change. But if you just do a little bit every day or five times a week, start twice a week, it's better than nothing before it's too late And I feel like I need the slaps in the face sometimes, which is not necessarily a good thing, but we can be so much more proactive than we are.

Speaker 4:

I think that's it, steve. It's for me, for tomorrow. For so many of my clients it's having to get to that breaking point. People land in therapy because they're at that breaking point. They need to make change. I was at that breaking point, right. I had so much rage I literally could have blown that guy's head off in the middle of the Haight-Ashbury.

Speaker 2:

No, San Francisco was that violent. I'm not gonna go back.

Speaker 4:

It's not, but I was. I was crazy. So I think it's getting to that place. Unfortunately it is. I ask people every day to practice. I tell people every day, just five minutes, change your state, you'll be so much happier. Change your state And find a practice that works for you. There's so many different types of practices And when I found the practice of lying down in Nidra, i was like this is like golden. This is. I'm reaching an orgasmic state. I want more of that. Like who doesn't want more of that?

Speaker 2:

I don't think that people look for it. That's the thing.

Speaker 4:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

I think that we look for productivity.

Speaker 4:

So killer.

Speaker 2:

Like one of my statements that I got from someone else, so it's not mine, but now my friends have used it because they liked it so much. It's like, instead of being human doings, how about we become human beings again? And I think that that's when meditation really goes towards right. And it's hard for people to change that thought process because we talk about addiction and how it used to be, and if you see the YouTube you'll understand. But you know we kept it quiet, we didn't talk to people, and now it's becoming a little more Up there.

Speaker 2:

And I need to say this before we go on if someone says they don't want a drink, you don't need to ask them why. You just say okay, yeah, just for the record, and I'm out there for that one too, because it's all personal in my opinion, and maybe they do have an addiction issue, maybe they don't. Who cares really, in all honesty, it's just their choice and I think we need to get better at doing that. But I think meditation is just needs to be sold, not as a Something that all the great, the Dalai Lama or the late great tick non hon, no, meditation is Lane and Tamar and Steve and Anyone can do it. I think that's the other thing too. Is we got to like, make it that?

Speaker 4:

normalize it right. That's why I go back to changing the educational system, of putting it into the school system immediately. But I think more importantly and this is I get really passionate about mothers, because mothers are with their babies. I have a couple of new moms in a class and I'm teaching right now. They both have little babies and I tell them every day practice with your baby, because your baby's gonna see you doing it, and then the baby's gonna yawn the baby right.

Speaker 4:

There's gonna be little little shifts that they start to see and, oh, that's time now to close my eyes, oh. And then, when they're two, oh, we're gonna sit here and stare out the window, okay. And when they're four, they're gonna walk and they're gonna say right foot, left foot, right, foot, left foot, right. So they're gonna be modeling their mother's behavior. So by the time they're 10, they can sit at the dinner table for a minute without having a device or without having to be asked About being quiet. Like don't? we want to live in a world like that I do. So I'm super passionate about getting mothers involved with the practice ASAP, like yesterday.

Speaker 2:

I'm a big fan of. Another secret that we keep in this community in the world is That women with postpartum depression is a lot more common than we think, and we're talking numbers of one out of four, one out of three, depending on the research you look at, and And you don't need to be a mother to have some sort of depression or anxiety, and we need to stop putting this in the dark so that we open it up. But again, that's a little bit of my PS public service announcement, because it's I went through two miscarriages with my ex-wife.

Speaker 2:

Mm-hmm and I'm not here to put her out there, but you know I've had a lot of clients also struggle with that and struggle with postpartum depression. We just had a case here in Massachusetts with a mom with a severe case, and If you want to look it up, go ahead, and I don't need to go into details here. But I think we just need to be able to talk about stuff. I think before we I want to finish a little bit on this we talked about how we keep secrets. Why do you think that we continue to get to that point on all these subjects? I know it's a large question, obviously, but I want to look at both of you because we're here to solve problems. Right, we're gonna solve the world's problems in this conversation.

Speaker 2:

North America will be cool, we'll move on to Europe next time, but how do we get people to just stop living in the dark? and I can go. I'll go with Lane. You got to start this time. You tomorrow is really push you the first time, so I'm gonna put you yeah, I think Community.

Speaker 2:

Right.

Speaker 4:

I think having community, joining others who are doing something that you're like fired up about or you're questioning or you're curious about. I Was super curious about meditation and mindfulness. I knew that this teacher that I felt like into that state, i was like there's something there, i need to follow her, i need to get involved with her and I jumped into her community and Then, you know, i became a teacher and learned so much more. But I think there's so much power in Community. I mean and I hate to bring it up, but you know, alcoholics non-miss One of the largest communities of people in recovery, doing the do, staying sober, and It doesn't matter if you like alcoholics non-miss or not or you have a grudge against it, but it's a community of People who are actually, you know, surviving and thriving in their life, who make huge changes. So I think community is the answer. Steve, did I answer it maybe?

Speaker 2:

that's the right answer for me and for the record, as I agree with you wholeheartedly. whether you have a Super love or super dislike of AA, i always say to people if it works for a large number of people, why do you have to diss it? You don't need to get it, you don't want to get involved? don't get involved, that's fine.

Speaker 2:

No, I'm putting a gun in your head but if it's gonna help and let's face it, what we, we can say millions of people at this point, right, millions, and so I'm not a guy myself, bob, you'll never hear me say, no, don't do it. No, the community, the collective, the There's a lot of to say about that, but just wanted to say that. So tomorrow, since Lane probably saved about 80% of the world, you're, you're gonna do the rest, the 20%. How do we get people to think differently?

Speaker 3:

Well, i have to agree on the community thing and in my experience I mean, i grew up with my parents were baby boomers and it was very This is how you act, this is how hard you work, and then you could prove your worth and so I grew up like that and One of those things was you don't show your weakness. So I always tried to be the strong person. I didn't talk about things because if I did, that meant I was weak. Now, finding recovery and finding that community, i found Women who gave me that safe space to share my secrets and all of a sudden these weights Started to lift off my shoulders and I think there's stigma for so many different things.

Speaker 3:

But as a Gen Xer, we've grown up saying you have been told you have to work hard right, or else you're not worthy and Don't be weak, because I mean you don't want to show people that you're emotional and, like Lane said, like emotional intelligence, i think they need to teach in schools Because maybe then people would start to say how they felt they could get honest with themselves. But I think people also need that space to do that and You find people by going into groups of like-minded people and I had to look for that. I wasn't hanging out with people who were safe people to talk with. It was all about golf zip and what your neighbor was doing. So, yeah, i'm gonna have to second that community there, steve.

Speaker 2:

I'm gonna add to what I also think is very beneficial, and for me, it's not to keep tabs on stuff. The story I share with people is I moved, you know, when I divorced I moved to this house where I met now in My neighbor one day I don't know what I did I took in their garbage back or something like that. Oh, i owe you. I said listen, if you're gonna start taking like tabs as to who did what for who, we'll never get along. We'll just do stuff because we like each other and If it gets to one sided, we can talk about it. Well, one point, i blew up my knee and she took care of my grass and then one time she had a bad back, so I took care of the snow and I didn't say, well, i owe you because, no, we just do it.

Speaker 2:

And I think, besides collective, we got to stop thinking I owe you. I Was on your podcast and I was so grateful and I don't have you on my podcast because I have to. I just found it fascinating, you know. I think that that's what we got to stop doing taking tabs when you get to the other side, whatever the other side looks like, i don't think that Whoever's on the other side is gonna say well, how many favors did you do versus how many favors do you owe? No one's gonna say that, and I think that for me, not only is a collective, but stop taking tabs on stuff.

Speaker 4:

But that's just me and with that I I was talking to my son and my niece this weekend and just about being nice, right, like what happened to just being nice, to be nice, you know, just like the tab. Like then, just, i think that's what you're saying, right, just like we're not keeping tabs anymore. Why can't we just pull over completely in the lane instead of double parking? Right Like the entitlement situation is out of control. So why not just be thinking of others and making the world a better place?

Speaker 4:

I know for me, if I'm thinking of others, i'm not thinking about my crazy or whatever you want to call it my crap, right, my self-centeredness, because I find that my self-centeredness, my world, becomes really small and painful, and then there's like a shame spiral that happens, and then there's a stigma like, oh, my God, i shouldn't be feeling this way, i should be did everything right. So if I'm thinking about others and how I can help others, how can I help tomorrow have a better day? How can I serve Steve's audience today? How can I get my kid to school on time? asking myself different questions to get out of my crap?

Speaker 2:

I agree. I agree. I think that what I would be nice. you look at religion, whatever religion you believe in, and one of the things I'll always remember is someone had made a nice little chart that talked about the main religions, but also the ones that people don't necessarily think about, whether it's Wiccan, whether it's the Native American belief system, and you know what they all have. There was at least one thing. they have more than one, but the one thing in common do unto others. Yes, and it's not worded in that way everywhere, but I'm pretty sure Mohammed, jesus and Buddha sat around a campfire to be like, yeah, that's probably part of it, and throwing Ganesh or whoever you want to throw in. ultimately, i think that that's just a message that we all religions have and we tend to forget. So for all of you who are like, well, we can't talk about religion, just a secret, they're mostly all the same.

Speaker 4:

Well, it goes back to or not goes back to, but spiritual principles, right, like there's a moral code that maybe. Perhaps we should just start looking at our own moral code, our own ethics, our own spiritual values, so maybe even take religion out of it, just like what am I standing for today? How do I want to leave the planet? What else am I going to? I don't know. This is like to go way out on a limb here. Tamar, help me, i know.

Speaker 3:

I could add a lot too, but it's true, right Be nice, be nice.

Speaker 4:

This is why I hang out with Canadians. They're all nice, right.

Speaker 2:

You should ask about Quebecers once in a while.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, we'll talk later.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, exactly, we have a reputation in Canada. Some of it earned, some of it not so much. Now we got the Albertans to pick on. But anyway, i want to get back to the other thing about religion. just to finish on this, because I have people who tell me no, i don't believe in anything. I said, that's a belief system. Right there, that's a belief system.

Speaker 4:

There, it is So true.

Speaker 2:

If there's nothing after that, might as well do something nice while you're here. And so when people say they have no belief system, i said that's a belief system. It just can't get away from a belief system. And I also go back to dogma, which says that you should have ideas, not beliefs. You can have an idea about something, but if you make it a belief, it gets tricky because people are willing to die for those beliefs And dogmas.

Speaker 2:

In 1998, generation X favorite for many of us movie And if you ever want to check it out I don't make any money. Kevin Smith will not send me residuals, i'm pretty sure, but it really is a great comment as to how we can use spirituality versus religion And it's pretty funny. But also a lot of little tidbits Ben Affleck, matt Damon, kevin Smith, chris Rock is an apostle, it's just amazing. It's a great movie. Go and check it out. But that's my view of spirituality, because that's what they talk about. I'm going to shift gears a little bit because tomorrow I was reading a little bit because I tried to research everyone And you talked about it in the intro And in my head I'm like I got to know about neural change, because I have no clue what that means. I learned about DNA. Now Now I got to learn about neural change. What does that mean? What does neural change?

Speaker 3:

The neural change is basically learning to rewire your brain. The program that I teach, the neural change method, is a neuroscience and psychology-based program that really looks into discovering your purpose, your belief systems, emotional intelligence on neuroplasticity, and so it's basically helping you create that vision for yourself And then learning what is blocking you from getting there and how to change that. Because a lot of times people get into something and they're like, well, i can't do that. I mean, they might be able to, but I can't, and it's not true. So we need to change the way we think, and we do that by rewiring our brains, and part of it is learning about how the brain actually functions in a way that they can understand, so that they know it's possible.

Speaker 3:

Like that whole, you can't teach an old dog new tricks. Well, you can. Actually. I mean, we're working on it right now at home. It's a slow go, but it's possible, and I think I use it more often on myself than I do with clients, because it's things that I have to remind myself of, especially emotional intelligence. But yeah, in a nutshell, that's what neurochanges.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, i'm a big fan of neuroplasticity. I explain to people how to change the brain is like you got to create a connection to your cerebral cortex. When you start off, it's this dirt road that's not been paved, there's nothing on it, it's just crappy road. But you practice it and then suddenly you can put a gravel base and maybe you'll put some sand and then maybe you put some cement over it And then it's nice and straight, but you only have one lane And then you do it more often. It's a two lane, a six lane highway and then it gets easier with time.

Speaker 2:

So when you talk about I didn't know what neurochanges, but when you talk about neuroplasticity, that's I love talking about that because I also tell people there's six lanes super highway. Even though it's there, if you don't use it and maintain it, it goes away and it gets smaller. So it's not like, oh, i know this, i can move on. It's really learning that. And neuroplasticity, when you talk about old dogs and new tricks, neuroplasticity has been found now to work till basically the day you die. So I like that new change of the thought process And we're going to solve you another problem with the world Be open to learning something all the time.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, and I think what happens is that the work that I do with the meditation kind of reinforces that neuroplasticity, that neuro change, right. So if you're rewiring your brain to start to think differently, using meditation kind of lays down the daily practice, oh, i am thinking differently, i am seeing the world differently, i do believe differently. They work hand in hand.

Speaker 3:

They do, and parts of the program actually, because it's all science based. All the research is in there And it shows what happens to the brain when you meditate, right? So people can't just say, oh well, that doesn't work. Well, here, actually, this is what happens in the brain while you're doing this.

Speaker 2:

The studies on that are amazing. If everyone wants to go look and like, check them out, i encourage everyone to go check those out. I also know that I told you about Reiki and there's now some research that shows how Reiki changes and people like you don't touch people. I'm like, well, it's an energy that's not mine, it's an energy from the world, and people look at me like I have four heads. Usually when I talk about that And when we talk about chakras and they feel it, they're like, oh crap, it's real. So I think that it's also like the openness that had changed of neuroplasticity in the research to be like. To me, neuro change is essential. If you think you know everything, you should give up now. Yes, i knew everything when I was 20.

Speaker 3:

Right.

Speaker 2:

But nowadays I realize what I know barely fits in a thimble in the size of this room And the more I learned it's that thimble seems pretty big considering the size of the room. So just being open to learning stuff would be what I would say As we wrap up here, because we're almost close to an hour. This is awesome. The other thing I want to mention about group and people. People always think it's a line, but I really feel like we've become friends talking here And I really appreciate you guys.

Speaker 2:

I can't tell you how much, and this is the other part of why do you do a podcast to make millions of dollars? No, it's to connect with people across where people like I wouldn't have met Lane or Tamar. I know she's Canadian and she lives next door to me, but I wouldn't have met her until we did this podcast. And now I'm like I want to stay in touch And when we talk about conductiveness and all that, i just think that I wanted to put that out because I really felt like we've had two conversations in the last couple of weeks Like, can we do this weekly? I mean this is really nice. So I wanted to give you, give you that, give it to my audience so that they can hear that. But, as we wrap up here, is there ways that we can reach you guys? because I know there's a couple of things we can do to reach you, but I'd like to hear more from you guys in regards to that, and we'll go with Tamar this time.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, absolutely. I think the easiest way is on our website, and actually we are in the middle of a rebrand right now, so by the time this airs, it'll be laughingwithoutlickercom And yeah, but we're really excited about that So you can find our social media, all the links there, links to the podcast as well.

Speaker 2:

Perfect.

Speaker 4:

I wanna go back to the conversation, steve Sure, because I am a huge fan of just having conversations. So anytime you wanna reach out, right And I say this to our audience and those who are listening both Tamar and I are really accessible. We tell our listeners when we have our show just reach out, join the community, get ahold of us, because I feel that we live in this world of isolation And we start to change, like I said earlier, through community and through conversations, being heard, being seen, being touched, and we need more of that now. So I hope people reach out and say hi, because it just makes me so happy And, like Tamar said, you can find out everything over at laughingwithoutlicker. And I have a website as well lanekennycom.

Speaker 2:

Just wanna mention that if we were talking before this off air, they're the exact same people. There's no difference. We're just on air now it's gonna be recorded, and for me, that's the breath of fresh air that I love about authenticity Because I can't fake me, you guys can't fake yourselves, and so what I feel like in lane, you might get an email every week now at this point Awesome. But it's what really bonds us because, at the end of the day, i can't take this desk with me, i can't take the money I made with me, i can just take me, and so I as well enjoy people while I'm here.

Speaker 4:

It's everything. It's everything people, the relationships that we have, that we create, the connections that we have through our heart. Who are we surrounding ourselves with? I mean, i went down to my family this weekend and my brother-in-law brought in all these musicians from Venezuela and there were like 100 people there And it was incredible And everybody kept saying thank you David, thank you David, thank you David. And it's like I was full of love because there was so much love in the room because of the community and the connections and the relationship and the conversations that they're having. It's just like, yes, let's create more of that. So, steve, i'm really grateful to be here with you So good. Thank you.

Speaker 2:

And on the joking aside, quebecers are different, but there's no English Canadians would let anything happen to Quebecers, and that's the truth, and vice versa. No, we pick on them, not you guys. And then the other thing too is I joke around that Canadians and Americans are like cousins, and I said that earlier, and I just think that when you see it as a connection, rather than the country below us or the country above us or whatever, that just changes everything and people see you differently. So thank you, guys, very generous with your time, and I look forward to talking to you again, both of you, tomorrow. I'm gonna bother you, even though you told me not to.

Speaker 3:

You can bother me, i'll let go of the Quebec thing.

Speaker 2:

All right, perfect, thank you. All right, thanks, guys.

Speaker 3:

Thanks, Steve.

Speaker 2:

Well, this concludes episode 103 of Fighting Your Way Through Therapy. Tamar Medford Lane Kennedy. Thank you so much. It was a great interview. I'm still laughing, actually, And I'm hoping that we can connect in different ways, including off podcasts and even doing some lives or something, but the next episode we're gonna talk about change. It's gonna be a solo episode for me and we're gonna talk about change because this is something that's been on my mind lately, So hope you join me then.

Speaker 1:

Please like, subscribe and follow this podcast on your favorite platform. A glowing review is always helpful And, as a reminder, this podcast is for informational, educational and entertainment purposes only. If you're struggling with a mental health or substance abuse issue, please reach out to a professional counselor for consultation. If you are in a mental health crisis, call 988 for assistance. This number is available in the United States.

People on this episode

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Steve Bisson

Host
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Lane Kennedy

Guest
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Tamar Medford

Guest