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Finding Your Way Through Therapy
Join Steve Bisson, LMHC as he unravels the complexities of therapy and counseling. Engage in straightforward dialogues, enriched with insights from special guests sharing a like-minded perspective. Each episode presents valuable, easy-to-digest information designed to help you perceive therapy, and those who partake in it, in a grounding, relatable manner.
Finding Your Way Through Therapy
E.176 Embracing Curiosity and Authenticity: Unlocking Personal and Professional Growth with Stephanie Simpson
What if you could break free from the confines of your own mind and live a more embodied and authentic life? Join us as we welcome back the insightful Stephanie Simpson, who expertly bridges the worlds of coaching and therapy. This episode promises to explore the art of creating safe spaces for self-discovery while helping you reconnect with your core values. From young professionals overwhelmed by career choices to seasoned leaders reshaping workplace dynamics, Stephanie's experiences offer something valuable for everyone. Together, we'll uncover the power of moving beyond mere headspace, fostering a more integrated sense of self and purpose.
Curiosity isn't just for the inquisitive—it's a transformative tool. We highlight the crucial role that curiosity and perspective play in personal and professional growth. By embracing a non-directive coaching style, we cultivate deeper connections, allowing for genuine understanding and healing. Inspired by thought leaders like Gabor Mate and David Brooks, this episode challenges you to embrace curiosity as a means to navigate rigid plans and emotional barriers. Whether you're leading a team or navigating your own journey, this discussion offers a refreshing take on how curiosity and listening can lead to profound personal and professional development.
Leadership isn't merely about having all the answers; it's also about asking the right questions and trusting those around you. We delve into the art of letting go, empowering your team, and focusing on strategic thinking. Through engaging stories and practical insights, we reveal why adaptability and playfulness are essential in today's ever-changing landscape. By using running as a metaphor, we explore the balance of control and enjoyment, urging you to embrace progress and authenticity. Celebrate your journey and align your actions with your values, all while nurturing meaningful connections along the way.
For more information or to work with Stephanie, please check out her website: https://www.stephanie-simpson.com/
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Hi and welcome to Finding your Way Through Therapy. A proud member of the PsychCraft Network, the goal of this podcast is to demystify therapy, what can happen in therapy and the wide array of conversations you can have in and about therapy Through personal experiences. Guests will talk about therapy, their experiences with it and how psychology and therapy are present in many places in their lives, with lots of authenticity and a touch of humor. Here is your host, steve Bisson.
Speaker 2:Ah, vous êtes là. Oh, here you are. Welcome to episode 176 of Finding your Way Through Therapy. If you haven't listened to episode 175, it was a great one, good night. I hope you go and listen to it, because it was really good and we talked about therapy. We talked about trauma and other things that first responders face. But episode 176 will be with a good friend of the show, someone who's been on, I think, five or six times, someone I truly have developed a great friendship with that I really appreciate, which is Stephanie Simpson. I think we're going to end up talking about I don't, we don't even have an agenda but I'm pretty sure we're going to end up talking about some stuff that's very interesting in regards to coaching as well as therapy and how to go through the therapeutic process and so on and so forth. So here is the interview. Well, hi everyone, and welcome to episode 176.
Speaker 2:I'm here with a returning guest. I think it's her fourth or fifth appearance on this podcast. You'll say I have a favorite. Yeah, I do have favorites, and Stephanie's someone I've always had a great conversation with and we got so lost in conversation before this. We were supposed to record about an hour ago but we got lost in our own talking because we really genuinely like each other, and that's always nice to find someone like that. I know we have a common friend, obviously, but at the same time I think we genuinely like each other, whether that friend was there or not. So I love having Stephanie Simpson on and welcome back to Finding your Way Through Therapy.
Speaker 3:I. This has been on my calendar for a little while. I've been very excited to come back and I second all of that, just the. The connection that we have forged over the last I think it's like been two years now has been really wonderful and you've you've been a support in more ways than you realize sometimes. So I just thank you and appreciate you and appreciate our mutual friend, who is also very wonderful.
Speaker 2:Well, I think that the other part, too is you're. You know I'm already plugging stuff for you. Go to her Instagram account. There's a lot of stuff that she writes is very authentic and real and I really appreciate it. And it's open. A lot of people can food for thought. I think we all need that, so you do help me too. So I do appreciate that and, to be truthful, where our long conversation was really about hey Steve, how come you haven't come to New York city yet? So I just have to push that agenda a little harder and I'm going to make time to go see Stephanie. But for those of who might've missed a few episodes you've been on, maybe you can introduce yourself.
Speaker 3:Sure, yeah, I just got an idea, as you said, that maybe you can come to New York and we can do a walking talking recording of a podcast.
Speaker 2:Now, that's an idea.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so we're going to, we're going to put that, manifest that somehow. But, yeah, so I am based in New York city and I am a coach and a consultant and I work with people in a variety of different ways. So one of the things that I think I've kind of distilled it all down to is really holding spaces so people feel comfortable and safe to go deeper into themselves and understanding who they are, so that they can connect with other people and the world around them in more meaningful ways and that, you know, thinking about what's really important to me. I know, briefly, we talked a little bit about values beforehand before we started. Recording and like authenticity is one of my values and connection and, you know, really helping others to understand what that means for them, whether those don't need to be their values, but how can they be more authentic?
Speaker 3:And a lot of my work stems back from what I did previously in my career, which was a dancer, theater, musical theater, artist, and so a lot of it is also helping people get out of their head and getting back into their bodies and really creating an embodied bodies and really creating an embodied, integrated system because we are a system right and and how can they do that? And so I work with people in a variety of capacities, both like businesses and groups, but also one to one, and really, when it comes down to it, I mean so many people ask me, like, what kind of coaching do you do? And I'm like well, coaching, I'm coaching the person right, so whatever comes up for that person. You know, sometimes people come to me because they're trying to navigate a career change right, and so maybe the surface level focus is career stuff, but then there's so much other stuff that comes in that I work with a lot of leaders who are working their way up and like, what does leadership mean for them? How can they be more conscious leaders in the workplace?
Speaker 3:And trying to break some of these you know more toxic cycles that are in the workplace nowadays. And then there's some people who are coming to me. I'm actually getting more young professionals who are coming out of, like, college or a few years out of college, who are just feeling a little lost and overwhelmed right With like, wait a second, I thought I wanted to do this. I don't know if it's what I want to do. How do I navigate this? What's important to me? You know all those sorts of things. So I'm really fortunate to work with a variety of people, all different industries, all different ages, and it really truly is a privilege to hear their stories and help them to rewrite the story they want to be living in their life.
Speaker 2:I think there's so many things you brought up right there that I want to talk about. I think one of the things that I kind of remind people is that I'm going to turn 50 next year myself and I still don't know what I want to do when I grow up. And it's okay, you know, if you think that the plan was ever to do a podcast, that wasn't the plan, it just happened to happen. I think that that's. The other part, too is that when people are young, they think that having a plan is the most important thing in the world. Plans change.
Speaker 2:I didn't plan to be in the US. I didn't plan to speak in English. I didn't plan most of the stuff that happened to me. I'm not regretting any of that, but when I took ownership and leadership of my own life and not listen to other people, what I need to do, that's part of having a good leader. I look at my mentor, who's been on the podcast before, dennis Sweeney, who really has helped me, just say, steve, is that what you want? It doesn't matter what other people want. Do you want that? So that really goes afar.
Speaker 3:You know, what I really love that you just said there is like, and it's so important and in talking to people is that it's about learning more about who you are and what you want, right? And yet so many times we're like tell me what to do, what am I supposed to do next? Right, and and I really try to educate people, clients, students of mine, things like that of like the different I say the forms of help spectrum, whereas like understand what type of help you need. And where coaching comes in to play a lot of times is I'm not going to tell someone what to do. That's not my job as a coach and anyone listening. If you're working with a coach who's telling you what to do, they're not a coach. They're not coaching.
Speaker 3:I just very much, absolutely not Exactly Cause coaching is all about listening to someone asking questions that help them to go deeper into themselves. So exactly what you said they can take leadership and ownership of their own actions in life, right when? And mentors and this is where sometimes, like the coaching, mentorship can get blurry right Is like mentors sometimes do offer advice, though I always tell people just remember that the advice they're giving is going through their own lens and like what worked for them and how they did it, or what didn't work for them, and maybe they're annoyed by that or there's a fear, or there's that, and that's not necessarily your fear, right? So you need to know how to listen and and go what, what did I hear that I can then use and work and work it into my life in an authentic way, right, and not every piece of advice you get should you be taking, you know, because what works for one person might not work for another person.
Speaker 3:And then therapy like I tell people, coaching is very therapeutic, but I'm not a therapist, and like there's a different relationship there, right, and so sometimes there are conversations that come up in the coaching session, whether it's group or individual, where I'll say, like I really appreciate you bringing this up. This sounds like something that needs to be talked with. More of a therapist, who has a different expertise right, and then a consultant being somebody who is also is more directive right, they are somebody who is an expert in a certain area, and I also do that. So, like if a company is like we need to put together a leadership development program or a stress management program or a burnout prevention program, I may consult on what the best practices of those are, though I will always have coaching as part of that, because if we're just telling people what to do all the time, that's not actually getting them involved and it's not an embodied experience, and then that's not going to create any change for those individuals or the system as a whole.
Speaker 2:Again, a therapist is way different than a coach and I'm going to remind everyone because this is so important, because I've asked. A lot of people have asked me hey, what about coaching? Can I get into? Get into a real coaching program. Don't do this $99 thing on Groupon and think that that's a coaching program. Do the real thing. And then you talk about mentorship. Mentorship is so different than coaching in some ways because a mentor is just there to listen to you, not even guide you, but say you know, okay, well, what, what are you getting from this and that and the other thing? And get you to make decisions for yourself. You getting from this and that and the other thing and get you to make decisions for yourself. And then, with therapists, sometimes it's looking at the past and how it affects you and what's doing. And coaching is a lot more about action plans and goal setting and all that not telling people what to do, but goal setting, and there's a huge difference between all those three and and like, uncovering, like.
Speaker 3:So I because I, I look at it from a holistic perspective I it's like a, it's a nice little cycle. So it's that I'm, I'm a, I'm a dancer and spoiler alert, our mutual friend is also a dancer, which is why we all love each other so much but is thinking about, like, how, when we think about the creative process, we, we have a question. We usually start, at least the way I was taught. There's a question, there's something that I'm trying to figure out. Like this summer I had I went up to Vermont for 10 days with a group of collaborators and did a dance residency and this is the third year that we were doing Actually, you would really love what we were working on is because we were talking about identity and we were all looking at identity from different ways.
Speaker 3:One person was really looking at it from internal family systems. So IFS, I at the time was really looking at like our emotions and how our emotions can kind of shift identity at times and what's our relationship with emotions. One person was looking at grief. One person was looking at like these archetypes, and specifically like the archetype of the witch, which I feel like I am part of that coven and witchiness, so it was just really fun to explore that. So we come into the space and we're like, okay, here's the thing we want to explore, and we lead with curiosity. So I think that's also a really big thing.
Speaker 3:When you talked about plans right, if we are not allowing ourselves to be open to curiosity and like then, then we're going to get stuck. Right, and especially if that plan is not going the way that we want it to go, we're then continuously controlling it and being like wait a second, what if I released and got curious about what's around us? Right, what, what could I find? What little treasures are here? And in the coaching process, it's the same thing. Someone's coming to me with, like, usually a specific problem. Right, they're coming with the problem. It's like great, awesome. Let's talk about what's underneath this problem, right, like this surface, because there's always something underneath. And let's lean into that curiosity, because if we can create a new awareness, then we can get clarity on what. How are we seeing it? Right, what's our lens, what's our perspective? And if we can shift to that perspective, right, if the perspective is, is I always call it like a debilitating perspective, it's holding us back. Then what do we need to do to shift that, to help move you forward? I try not to use things like negative and positive, but like what's holding you back and what could actually help to move you forward or actually just release a little bit.
Speaker 3:And now, with this new perspective, what's possible? And so, what action step can you take from here? Right, and then, with taking that action, now you're actually taking aligned action. You then learn something new, right? So once you took that action, then we go okay, what did we learn from that? So, going back to the dance metaphor, like, okay, so we're going to do this improvisation score, we're going to film it. Then we're going to watch it and go what do we see here? What really steps out? What are we like Ooh, that's interesting. Now let's dive deeper into that. So now we go even further. What do we know now? Well, now we have a new awareness, right, and we just keep doing this process where we zoom in and then we zoom out, because if you're always zoomed in, you're not going to see the things around you, but if you're always zoomed out, then you're not actually like doing the work. Sometimes you're kind of so far on the outside that you might not be making forward progress.
Speaker 2:Well, I think zooming out makes it more of a persona rather than who you are, because that further lens is great and that's what people look like and this, and that I believe in doing both. Like you said, zoom in and zoom out can be both helpful, but you got to do kind of that dance and no pun intended. Number two I did follow a little bit and I can't remember where it was on your instagram and I followed you a little bit while you were in vermont and I was really cool to to watch and yeah, I was curious when you were talking, like in your stories in particular, I was like I wonder what they're doing. But I think you bring up another excellent point Again, speaking of mentors and people that really helped me.
Speaker 2:I talk about Dennis. There's other people who've helped me. We said you know you're going to survive in this field and they said how do you know that? You're curious. You never think you know the answer. You're curious and you attack what you see and if you have an opinion, you kind of throw it out as a you know, here's what I'm seeing or here's what I think, and you're never telling people what to do and that's why being curious and being non-directive, but also kind of telling them what you're observing is so important to do.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I love that because and this is where you know if someone is always going to someone else to be like tell me, tell me, tell me. It's assuming that that person knows all the answers, and the person who's telling all the time also assumes that they know all the answers, which actually means that there's no opportunity for growth and innovation and creativity and all of that. And so being able to truly listen to somebody and tell them what you're hearing, right? So that's where the telling is okay, this is what I'm hearing from you, and I'm curious, or I'm wondering what if this? And I'm curious, or I'm wondering what if this, or how about this? Or blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 3:And really truly being curious about the person in front of you actually builds more connection. Right, because you're invested in them as a person. Right, and that's that, to me, is where coaching, mentoring and therapy works is when you feel like the person that's listening to you is invested in you as a person, as opposed to yeah, tell me what it is. Okay, I'll just tell you what I think you should do, which is it's not just a one-size-fits-all.
Speaker 2:And you know I go back to Gabor Mate, who is someone I absolutely adore and love. I've really discovered him. I know he's Canadian I should have known about him, but I know every Canadian, despite what Americans think. But when he talks about being in a coaching situation, being in a therapeutic situation, whatever the case may be, sometimes it's that connection and how you're listening and being curious that is so much more important. He talks, I, about how the brain waves and the heart waves that we all have, once they start getting connected, it's more therapeutic than any type of behavior Like oh, I do behavioral, I do coaching, I do whatever, it doesn't matter, because you have that same wavelength, literally in order to heal and get to where you need to be.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm reading a book right now and for the life of me I can't remember the exact name. I'm going to see if I can pull it up quickly on my phone here how to Know a Person the Art of Seeing Others Deeply and being Deeply Seen, by David Brooks, and I've been reading this and it's so amazing the things that he's saying, because he talks about how we have lost as a society the art of seeing people but also allowing ourselves to be seen, and he talks about listening a lot and that we just don't teach those skills anymore. And having been both in the classroom full-time for K through 12, as well as now being an adjunct at a college and also working with people in the corporate world all the way up to the C-suite level, we have a little bit different names for things, but, like in education, we call it social emotional learning, in the corporate world we call it emotional intelligence. But when you really look at both models, they're pretty much the same around self-awareness and self-management and then relational awareness and relationship management. And we're not. We haven't figured out how to actually teach these things so that we know how to be a human and then also how to connect with other human beings which, going back to, like, that's literally the foundation of the work I'm doing, and it always like when leaders talk about well, how can I be a better leader.
Speaker 3:I just finished a group program with people in the financial service, financial, financial service industry and one of the biggest takeaways a lot of them said was I just need to listen more. Like in order for me to be a more effective leader, I need to be listening so that then you can ask a question that makes sense. You know, and like a lot of leaders will be like how do I get my team to perform better? Or I'm noticing this, or this isn't working, and I go okay, well, what are you doing? Because you also are a leader, so what are you doing to show up differently? Well, they need to do this, they need to do this, they need to do this.
Speaker 3:And I'm like okay, how can we make this a both and right? Like, how can we make this a partnership? Yes, let's do some group stuff and let's do some one-on-one, you and I, to figure things out, and literally like, especially with this, these, this group, they were like hi, I need to listen more. I need to listen, I need to ask more questions and then, on the other end, managing up because a lot of times I'm coaching people how to manage up is also being able to set that relationship where you're asking your manager for time in which you can share and ask questions and listen to them, and sometimes it's modeling so that they then can go oh, maybe this is what I should be doing, right, but it really does. It really comes down to how are we listening and not listening to talk, as I'm sure some people will know the saying, but it's not listening to them be able to talk, it's listening to understand and to be curious to go further, right?
Speaker 2:So yeah, and you know, going back to what we started off with in our long conversation before this, I think that's why me and you get along so well. I think we're active listeners, we want to hear what the other person has to say and we're there to be authentic with them. I think that the other part, too, that's missing is when you are in the C-suite, you don't get to be as authentic, so that way you don't listen, and I don't work as much as you do, probably, with the C-suite people, but I do have a few, and that's kind of what we have as a conversation about leadership. Leadership is about no, this is not working. Why is it not working? Not who's to blame, what needs to change, why is it not working? And being curious about that, I think that sometimes that's where people miss the mark in the leadership world.
Speaker 3:In my opinion, I agree, yes, and I will say was it last year, almost a year? No, it was earlier. In March, I was at South by Southwest EDU and there was a panel around basically, how are we redefining leadership, or how do we redefine educating the workforce through leadership? And there was the head of talent development from Google and, like the head of HR from something else, you know, some big name people and, honestly, what the big takeaway was is that leadership nowadays is no longer about being the expert and having to have all the answers. An effective leader nowadays is learning how to listen and ask the most effective questions. Because, like you said, going back to the whole plan thing, you can have the most clearly laid out plan. And they were talking about how and I forgot the exact example, case study but there was this laid out plan of how X amount of X, y and Z was going to happen. Let's just say it was the travel industry and they're like, okay, 2020, here's what we're going to do. Blah, blah, blah. And then what happens? We get COVID happens. No one can travel Right, so you can have the most late, like best plan, best strategy, all of that sort of stuff, and shit still happens. All of that sort of stuff and shit still happens.
Speaker 3:And now you need to know how to to navigate that. You need to know how to, to be flexible, how to dance, how to do whatever, and a good leader goes okay. I mean, this is where maybe they do take a step back and zoom out and go. What are the questions we need to be asking? Who are the people that have those answers? I need to have all the answers to be an effective leader, but people that have those answers I need to have all the answers to be an effective leader, but who does have the answers? And how do we get them involved? And and then putting together a team right and then trusting that the people you bring onto your team, trusting them and allowing them to do the work that they, that they can do. Which is the other interesting thing about this group that I was coaching is a lot of them are just in that next stage of moving to another level in leadership, and it's a very big pain point for a lot of people of like.
Speaker 3:I need to have more space in my calendar to be able to do more of the strategic, innovative, high picture thinking, but I don't have it because I'm still stuck in the minutiae, day-to-day blah, blah, blah. And I'll say, okay, well, on your team, who can do that? Well, I mean, this person might blah, blah, blah. I'm like, okay, so how do you delegate that? Well, I mean. And then I said, what do you think is getting in the way of you really being able to delegate?
Speaker 3:And what was getting in the way for many of them was it's really hard to let go Right and it's really hard to trust things, trust people, and so I'm like well, then this is more about if you are developing your team and making them confident in the work that they're doing, then you have to trust that you did a good job doing that and allow them to go off so that you can do some of these other things. But at the end of the day, at some point, if this is a repeated thing, you have to stop and go. Well, where am I getting? In my own way?
Speaker 2:Getfreeai. Yes, you've heard me talk about it previously in other episodes, but I'm going to talk about it again because GetFreeai is just a great service. Imagine being able to pay attention to your clients all the time, instead of writing notes and making sure that the note's going to sound good and how are you going to write that note, and things like that. Getfreeai liberates you from making sure that you're writing what the client is saying, because it is keeping track of what you're saying and will create, after the end of every session, a progress note. But it goes above and beyond that. Not only does it create a progress note, it also gives you suggestions for goals, gives you even a mental status if you've asked questions around that, as well as being able to write a letter for your client to know what you talked about. So that's the great, great thing. It saves me time, it saves me a lot of aggravation and it just speeds up the progress note process so well. And for $99 a month. I know that that's nothing. That's worth my time, that's worth my money. You know, the best part of it too is that if you want to go and put in the code Steve50 when you get the service at the checkout code is Steve50, you get $50 off your first month and if you get a whole year, you save a whole 10% for the whole year. So again, steve50 at checkout for getfreeai'll give you $50 off for the first month and, like I said, get a full year, get 10% off, get free from writing notes, get free from always scribbling while you're talking to a client and just paying attention to your client. So they win out, you win out, everybody wins, and I think that this is the greatest thing. And if you're up to a point where you got to change a treatment plan, well, the goals are generated for you. So, getfreeai code steve50 to save $50 on your first month.
Speaker 2:Right, and I think there's so many things that you said are absolute. Where am I getting my own way? The the case example. I don't know what they were using, but I think about blackberry, who had all the market share of the smartphones for so long, and their plan was we'll keep on doing the same thing. Well, what did apple do? What did android do? And and uh, what was that? Samson and other places? They evolved and they accepted, they went a longer lens what do people want? And then they went back inside. Um, you know and I don't know if that was the case study, but blackberry is could have been the biggest and I know they're a canadian company. They could have been the biggest smartphones in the world and they sat on their laurels. They weren't able to be curious, they weren't able to do all those things that you just talked about and trust and letting go. Then they just stay stuck. And nowadays who has a BlackBerry? I mean even my friend who had a BlackBerry until about two years ago. He finally broke down and got an Android recently. So I think that that's part of it.
Speaker 2:You know, there's a lot of things I wrote down while you were talking too. You know being being the letting go of the trust and all that one of the things of one of the c-suite people I work with his. It wasn't my intervention, it was his. He's like I don't like being the smartest person in the room. I don't want to be the smartest person. I want other people with smarts to help me, and then not only do I get to get those smarts per proxy, I also get to learn a lot of stuff and they feel successful. I feel successful and I'm like, wow, that's a great thought process that I think that once you trust other people, you let go of control and you don't need to be the smartest person in the room. That just elevates your company so much better.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, that word control, right there, I mean like that's such a I mean as human beings, right, like we just want to control things, and I assume I mean talking from an eye perspective. It's because of fear, right? And so I wonder, if you know people in like the higher position, there's this fear of I'm at this high position, I should know everything, and I'm afraid that if I tell people that I don't know everything, that I don't know like X, y and Z will happen. They won't trust me. They want all this and yet, at the same time, actually being an authentic leader and having that vulnerability of like I don't know everything and trust me in getting the people that do know the things that I don't know to come. And I'm going, I trust me in getting the people that do know the things that I don't know to come in. That's only going to help all of us is, like you just said, it takes, but it takes a lot of courage, I guess I would say, to be able to, to let go of that control. But as we and as I literally have learned this summer physically in my body, is that the more that we control things we get injured. So I mean. What I'm referring to is, as I was saying earlier, is I'm training for the October marathon and, I'm not sure, october 13th there's a marathon in Chicago. Not sure when this will come out, but either before then or after that hopefully I will be at the starting line. But I got injured on week like five or six, and the more that I learned about it.
Speaker 3:Well, a in my person, in like my own life, I was like wait, this is the thing that I always had control over and I literally would use it with clients where I was like running is the thing that I have control over, cause I get to decide when I go out to run. I get to decide how much I want to run. I get to decide when I go out to run. I get to decide how much I want to run, I get to decide how fast. You know all of that. Part of that is somewhat not true anymore, cause I hired a run coach, cause I was like I need help. So, yes, coaches hire coaches. Um, and I was like I need help. I'm not an expert in running, so let me hire someone who is an expert in running and can help me get better Right. So, full in support. Coach Ned, you're great.
Speaker 3:And then this thing got taken away from me and I had a friend tell me I wasn't ready to hear it at the time, I will say this and she was like, well, I think this is the universe telling you that, like you still need to let go of control. And I was like, no, I need this, I need this. But um, um, I have learned a lot about that and and and. The more that we try to control something, it actually will break, because there isn't that, there isn't the ability to be flexible and mobile I I go back to I can't remember if it it's someone in the buddhist world, so I don't want to misquote who said it.
Speaker 2:Saying trying to get control over your life is trying to grasp that water and try to hold it in your hand. And you know as much as I'm a practicing buddhist. I struggle also, just like you, about letting go of control, letting things be what they are. But it really is what you know. You talk about running. You know when we had the pre-interview conversation to me, running when I ran was. I didn't worry at the time about my business.
Speaker 2:The other problems in my life or you know, was going through difficult relation with my um, now ex-wife, or how it's going to affect the kids. I was running. There was nothing else in the world, it was just running. And people say they do it for the runner's high and all that. I did it so I can clear my mind and it was my me time, so to speak. I didn't feel like I was competing with anybody but myself. And when you talk about what running meant to you, I haven't run since the pandemic. Really, I've ran a handful of times and I miss it terribly. I'm having my own medical issues that I'm trying to clear out for that. But the bottom line is I miss it because when I went for a run, it wasn't to impress people, it wasn't to think about something, and I don't even listen to podcasts when I run. All I do is maybe I'll listen to some music that keeps me up in order to run, but that's about it.
Speaker 2:That's all I have in my mind. I'm just running. It's the next foot on the pavement type of idea, or grass or whatever, and you know, once you start talking about you know that part. I think it was my spiritual release too, and being able to be one with the earth, and if that's too earthy crunchy for a whole lot of people who don't know me, uh, I don't care. Uh, that's who I am and that's really what it is. You know you talked about a lot of different things there.
Speaker 3:That goes with that, so I wanted to say that to you I love that, I love that and, as I'm hearing all of that, it's it's funny because as I'm listening to you, I'm I'm like, yeah, I can imagine. I remember when I first started running I started in my early thirties it was such a magical experience because everything was so new, right, and I was like, oh my God, I'm doing this and I'm doing this and I'm doing this. And I noticed over the last year and a half and I do think this has to do with, like me, having started my own business full time a few years ago was I didn't feel like I had a lot of control in the business, sort of thing. So then there was this thing that I could control, right, and I put so much focus on it. That and the word that kept coming up with like achievement. When you said I'm not comparing myself to other people, it's just myself is I can find myself doing both like at different times, where I do get stuck in like, oh my gosh, like look at that person, and then I'm like no focus on yourself. But then I become so competitive with my own self that I actually had a conversation with my coach a few months ago where I was like I can't have every race. The goal for every race can't be I want to have a PR or a personal best. It's gotta be something else. It's gotta be that, like, I'm running this race in a smarter way, or I'm running this race in a way that I feel good the entire race and I don't like bottom out somewhere because I caught myself and I was like, if I continue to be like I have to have a better time, every single point, it won't be the thing that was the way you were describing it anymore.
Speaker 3:It won't be this release, it won't be this spiritual thing, it won't be fun, it won't be literally me prancing through central park. You know like it won't be that. It will be this thing that I have to control and I have to, you know, and all of that and I'm learning a lot right now as I'm listening and talking to myself in preparation for Chicago is that physically I'm probably fine, right, like I've been doing a lot of different therapies to get myself there. And I say probably because who knows that anything can happen.
Speaker 3:But I've noticed in the last couple of weeks that it's the mental and the emotional part and the attachment to what I wanted this race to be and thinking it's not that anymore and going wait a second, you're still going to get there. You're still going to race, like don't be attached to this expectation and don't. And I lost control of it, right. And so it's again the letting go. And so for all listeners who are like, where are they going in this conversation, I would just bottom line it and saying again like how are we aware in your life, are you holding on to control? And if you think, oh no, I don't, there's probably a part of your life where you're like, oh crap, I'm really trying to control the shit out of this.
Speaker 2:And I'm not trying to usurp your coach by any stretch, but I would say to you that whatever happens I know this is going to be present, this will be, a podcast comes out after that, but whether you run October 13, or not, I think that's the date right. It will be the best run on october 13, 2024 you'll ever have. And instead of being attached to having a pr or personal best or this guy be the best marathon, I'm going to pro. I feel like I'm coaching you now because I've you know, and again I may be breaking a wall here. You can kick my butt later on when I I see.
Speaker 2:I remember you posting some of those pictures when you did the Disney runs and it's so nice to see you so happy Because I don't think you're competing with anyone when you're doing those. And that's the essence of what we forget about our jobs, our personal lives and even running health, nutrition, whatever you want to call it. We lose sight that this has to be enjoyable. You know I don't. The podcast can hit 2 million. I don't think I ever will. Great, it hits 20 people and it helps one person. I'm as happy as if I hit 2 million hits. I'd be nice to get 2 million hits, but I'm not attached to that and it's really about making sure that you're having fun. You know, having you on on the podcast so often I have never like we've been recording for I don't know how long, and we've had the conversation before this. There hasn't been a dull moment. I've enjoyed every moment of it and that's what I get attached to because, as in life, no one's gonna remember my achievements, but they'll remember how I made him feel.
Speaker 3:I yeah, I love that. That's such a great reminder and I thank you for that, because you just kind of unlocked something for me of like, yeah, like I call my Disney races my fun runs, because that's exactly what they are. Right, they're like one big playful party and and then how can I translate that to these other runs? Like they're just a different costume that I'll be wearing and I love that you bring that back to to like just professional in life and things like that is like how can we find the playfulness in everything? Right, like a theme that just comes up all the time in any conversation that I'm having with a client or a group or anything like that is we're actually all just making it up as we go along anyway, it's all just leave.
Speaker 3:So how can we have the most fun with it? Right, and as someone who literally loves peter pan and kinkerbell and that whole story, is like, yeah, the times we fly or the times that we're thinking like happy thoughts and that's not to be toxic positivity, that's to be like I mean, I just rewatched the movie hook a few weeks ago and his happy thought is spending quality time with his kids, right, like joy of that and for the most part, I think most people would say would be having quality connection time with somebody, and that those are the positive and uplifting things and that we really can create whatever we want to create, whether that's in the corporate world or not. Like how can we bring back that playfulness?
Speaker 2:Right. I mean, you can be a business person like you are and like I am, do the business part but also have fun with it, so to speak. And it's not that you're not taking it seriously, but in fact it's because it makes it more enjoyable for people to hear. And when you're running for your Disney the marathon in Chicago or whatever, why can't it be fun? Yeah, you know, no one's going to like I don't think anyone's going to remember my revenue, no one's going to remember if I came up with a theory or not, but they're going to certainly remember like well, at least Steve was entertaining.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, and like you said, between the numbers thing, like like the impact that I think we both like have a similar thing is. The impact is like how am I, how am I unlocking something for somebody or how am I connecting with that person? And even if it is, you know, one person, is a big deal, right. Like that's a big deal for for that one person and for the next person that they meet, and all of that, and really thinking about it in that way as well, yeah, I kind of. I was trying to like think in my head like this idea of being why do we have to be so serious? Like let's have like the play and the fun, and I was like how can we be more serious about being playful and fun? Like like that's the thing that we prioritize. And I mean I could go on a whole thing around how there's so much research around the fact that the way we grow and how we learn is through play, right, so like, if we're not accessing that, then we're actually not learning.
Speaker 2:And growing and all of that either. So, and then you know, talking about dancing, talking about being creative, that's how we learn and I think it goes back to a little bit of your roots and obviously that plays a huge factor some of my therapy. Sometimes they come in and we talk about, you know, men like to talk about hockey. Sometimes women were just talking about shooting the shit, so to speak, and sometimes I'll be like is that really therapy? I said, do you feel connected to me? Yeah, I feel I can tell you anything. That's why it's therapy, and sometimes we get too precious about oh, what's CBT technique or IBF technique or whatever the hell it is? How about the technique of connecting? And if you can bring that in your life everywhere, whether it, then we talked, you know, pre-interview too, and we didn't get there. But connecting with your spirituality, connecting with your body, connecting with your mental health is so important to make the trinity of what was the word you used Wellness.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, the harmony, yeah. So I mean something that I taught. So I teach a stress management class at a college here in the city and one of the first things we talk about is health versus wellness, and that sometimes they're used interchangeably, which is not quite correct, and that there's many different types of health, right, so you just listed a few of them. You have your spiritual health, you have your physical health, you have your emotional, your mental, you have your financial health, right, occupational, environmental, like. There's all these different categories of health and then wellness is the harmony with all of those, right?
Speaker 3:So if someone I'm working with is like and many people might've seen this as like you know, the wheel of life or things like that a lot of people use, which is a great way actually to get a snapshot of like where you're at right now and where you're focusing and actually what's important to you, so I do that exercise all the time is like okay, if I'm really high in fulfillment in my physical health because I go to the gym all the time.
Speaker 3:And we were talking about like I have this like six pack and stuff which I don't, and we're I'm fine with that. It's all of that sort of stuff is like, yes, but my like social health is really low and I don't feel like there's anybody I can connect with. Well then, we're not a well being right. Like that's not wellness right there, that like they don't all have to be at the same level because that's also not sustainable or attainable. But like, how are we looking at this and making sure that we are, you know, somewhere on the scale of all of these and that that exercise actually can really highlight in both ways? I have sometimes clients go wow, actually I'm doing a lot better than I thought I was and I'll be like, tell me more. And they'll be like well, I am so fixated on this one part of my life that isn't working going back to the control thing that they forget that there's this whole other area, all these other areas of their life that are really fulfilling and fruitful, right.
Speaker 3:And so like, what a wonderful snapshot to have. And then for others it goes oh, I am not paying attention to all this other stuff and that's why I'm feeling this like internal unrest or, as we would call, distress, like the, the, the conflict. And then it goes. That's actually really awesome Right, to bring it back to earlier in the conversation because now you have a new awareness, right, and you can do something with this. And then I have them do this thing where I like, take those categories and I'm like, okay, now rank them in priority, right today, what is the priority? And then I'll say, what do you notice from these? And some people will say, well, I'm noticing that the place that I'm feeling not fulfilled in is also not a prior high priority of mine. Awesome, so now just let that go. Like, if it's not a priority and you're not feeling super fulfilled, that's fine. Like that's just not where you're at right now, but if you're finding a place is not fulfilling and it's a high priority, cool.
Speaker 3:Now we have a really good coaching topic, because now we can start to talk about what's getting in the way. What are these lenses that are stopping you. How can we shift those? How can we take action? Right, and if you're noticing that you're really fulfilled in a place and it's a top priority, well then great, like cheerlead yourself. The work you're doing is paying off and I think I don't know if you've ever felt this, but I know for myself, being in therapy and knowing what the name of this podcast is like. I'm very big advocate of being in therapy is I sometimes forget to stop and celebrate the progress I've made, because I'm so in it, right, right, and we have to celebrate ourselves in order to be able to keep going, and so that exercise also helps us to go. Wow, all the effort and time I'm doing, it's paying off.
Speaker 2:I mean, there's so many things we can go off on there too, because I think that what you just said is true it's like we don't celebrate ourselves because we don't feel that we have the right to do so, and that's absolutely terrible. We talk a little bit about, when we're doing things in those priorities that you were talking about, which end up being like where are we fawning to make other people happy, but it's not making us happy which brings up trauma, and I think that not everything's linked to trauma, but I think it can be and it's realizing that you know, once in a while just be a human and it's okay, and you know it's. It's a little bit of what I've tried to be authentically myself through this podcast, through my life in general, because I've learned a long time ago, putting on a mask is so exhausting. So and I'm not going young on you here, I'm not doing Carl Young's treatment, but Love it.
Speaker 3:That's what I studied in grad school as well, so bring it on. No, I think that's so. I mean when, when I'm talking to people about stress because for me that is the the other foundational part is like we are create, people are creating the unnecessary stress when they're not living in alignment with who they are, right, and I don't think that we've created a lot of systems and spaces that encourage people to figure out who they are and what they value, right, and that their values then become the foundation of their beliefs and their thoughts and then, which then help shape their actions when those are not in alignment, right, which really is what it means to be a holistic. When we're taking a holistic approach, when those are not in alignment, you're creating that, that distress, and that's the internal part, right, and I think so many times people are looking at stress as the external thing that's being put upon them, but so many times it's actually the internal thing, you know. And how are we making space for that so that we're shifting the relationship with the internal Cause? Then, all of a sudden, those external things look really different and maybe they're not actually a problem anymore. Right, because we shift from the inside, which, with the leadership framework and model that I use with clients, is really the shift in. That is what we would call.
Speaker 3:Level three is when someone is starting to take responsibility for their own actions, behaviors, feelings and thoughts, and if we're not able to do that, we're then stuck in level one and level two, and there's the blaming of the self, there's the blaming of others, there's the frustration, the anger, and that that's where we're in our fight flight, freeze or fawn, depending on the circumstance and depending on how we've been, how we've built up our protection system, which I think is. The other thing is to remind ourselves that, like, we built that protection system for a reason and it was necessary at that time, though is it still necessary now? And if it's not not, then how can we unlock some of these other levels and and move through and forward with it? So, so, yeah, I think it's. It's a lot of that the internal distress, that the fact that that's that's the that's, if we can unlock that, if we can find the key to unlock that, the door opens to so many other things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's an internal thing. I love what you just said and it's something we self-impose, right? One of the things that I tell people is that no one's ever shamed you, and they always go, no, no, this person shamed me, this, no, no. You self-impose that shame and that's when the internal distress and stress and I got to meet other people's criteria fight, flight or fun or freeze response and there's so many things. I can go on and on here, but I want to be mindful of the time too, because I think that what I'd love to do is yes, I think that you're on, we'll go, we'll get to New York and maybe do a walk. I don't know how that's going to work for YouTube, but we can figure that one out when we get there.
Speaker 3:Selfie stick? I don't know yeah.
Speaker 2:Me and you are good, we can figure it out, but I'd like people to know how to let them know how you can be reached or how they can get your services, or anything like that, for your coaching.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that'd be great. So my website is just stephanie-simpsoncom, and that's Stephanie with a PH, and my LinkedIn, my Facebook, my Instagram, is stephaniesimpsoncoaching, so you can follow all those. I also am having a rebirth of my newsletter and so you can. They've been posted on LinkedIn so you can kind of scroll back and see the two that have been posted there. You can also go to my website and there's a place to just kind of throw your email in to subscribe and then you'll get those.
Speaker 3:And the reason I decided to come back to the newsletter was I was personally feeling that social media wasn't filling me up in connection and authenticity and bringing me joy.
Speaker 3:So, like my four, my four values are authenticity, connection, creativity and joy and I just was really realizing that I wasn't doing those things in the way that that felt aligned and was really feeling called to create this more intimate community and connection through longer form writing and also like sharing more about like me in a way that felt also safe to me, you know.
Speaker 3:And so I was like I think, I think my newsletter needs to come back. So my, my commitment is to do two a month so that I'm not spamming a bunch of people and really taking topics that are coming up in my life, those topics that I'm noticing in my clients, and inviting people to share feedback. And there's always questions at the end, reflection questions so I invite people to do those and share them with me if they want to, and then I will definitely, once this podcast comes out, put that on the newsletter for people to be able to and to to, for recommendations and things of that nature. So those would be the ways to connect with me and to see what's going on and also ways to to reach out, and my email is just Stephanie at Stephanie dash Simpsoncom. I'm still on the platform, so if you message me there, I will get it. It just might be slower for me to respond because I'm not on them as much. And, yeah, I would love to hear from people.
Speaker 2:Well, stephanie, I think I'm going to put all that in the show notes and then some, but I want to thank you for today. It's hard to put in words when you really connect with someone who's authentic and being themselves, and that's the only words I have and truly, truly appreciate you and, yes, I'm going to take you up on that offer to go to New York and do something together very soon.
Speaker 3:That'd be great Love it. Thank you again for having me on so much fun.
Speaker 2:No problem. Well, this concludes episode 176, stephanie Simpson. Again, thank you so much. You're going to get some coaching. You got to get some coaching. You want to get some corporate stuff. She talks about teaching, as she did in the show. Go check out her website, go check out her Instagram, go check out everything. She's really awesome and really enjoyed our conversation. For episode 177, we're going to have someone who talks about the troubled teen industry Meg Applegate. She's going to be on in the next episode, so I hope you join us then.
Speaker 1:Please like, subscribe and follow this podcast on your favorite platform. A glowing review is always helpful and, as a reminder, this podcast is for informational, educational and entertainment purposes only. If you're struggling with a mental health or substance abuse issue, please reach out to a professional counselor for consultation. Health or substance abuse issue please reach out to a professional counselor for consultation. If you are in a mental health crisis, call 988 for assistance. This number is available in the United States and Canada.
