Finding Your Way: Resilience Development in Action

E.195 Religious Trauma, Professional Boundaries, and Finding Balance in Mental Health Work

• Steve Bisson, Jennifer Schrappe • Season 12 • Episode 195

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What happens when the therapist needs therapy? In this vulnerable and illuminating conversation, clinical counselor Jennifer Schrappe opens up about her personal wake-up call that forced her to confront years of self-neglect while caring for others. With over 20 years of experience in mental health and standing at the intersection of therapeutic practice and pastoral ministry, Jennifer shares the moment she realized that constantly putting herself last wasn't serving anyone – especially when her own health hung in the balance.

The discussion takes us through Jennifer's courageous journey with food addiction, how her oldest child leaving for college triggered an emotional reckoning, and the pivotal moment when her husband expressed fear of losing her to an early grave. "Life is right now," she reflects, not someday after all the responsibilities are handled. This recognition transformed her approach to both personal wellness and professional practice.

We dive deep into therapy approaches for trauma, with Jennifer explaining her use of Internal Family Systems and Rapid Resolution Therapy. She artfully describes how these modalities help clients recognize emotional patterns, trace them back to their origins, and develop new neural pathways. Particularly fascinating is her explanation of how therapists navigate working with clients whose struggles mirror their own fears – and the delicate dance of maintaining professional boundaries while acknowledging personal reactions.

The conversation also explores religious trauma, revenue diversification for mental health professionals, and Jennifer's upcoming course on healing emotional patterns around money. Her blend of clinical expertise and spiritual insight offers a refreshing perspective for anyone interested in authentic healing – whether you're a therapy professional or someone navigating your own mental health journey.

Want to connect with Jennifer? Visit www.JenniferSchrappe.com or find her on Instagram at Jennifer_Schrappe_LPCC to learn more about her work and upcoming projects.

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Speaker 1:

Hi and welcome to Finding your Way Through Therapy. A proud member of the PsychCraft Network, the goal of this podcast is to demystify therapy, what can happen in therapy and the wide array of conversations you can have in and about therapy Through personal experiences. Guests will talk about therapy, their experiences with it and how psychology and therapy are present in many places in their lives, with lots of authenticity and a touch of humor. Here is your host, steve Bisson.

Speaker 2:

Bienvenue aux épisodes de transition. Welcome to the transitional episodes of Finding your Way Resilience, development and Action. My name is Steve Bisson. We're going to be doing this for a few weeks until we get to the full rebranding, which is obviously going to be Resilience, development and Action. I just want to make sure that people follow me throughout these changes, so that's why I'm doing it that way.

Speaker 2:

I hope you listen to episode 194. My co-hosts Courtney Romanowski and Lisa Monka. It was a great episode. We talked about dance movement, so please go back and listen to it. But episode 195 will be with someone again. I choose all the people with different last names, so I hope I get it right.

Speaker 2:

Jennifer Schrappi I think that's how we pronounce it. I'll probably mess it up. Jennifer is a clinical counselor, supervisor and director of Chrysalis Enterprises Counseling Practice in Columbus Ohio. She's been in the field for over 20 years, specializing in trauma. She has a special place in our heart for the hurting, having been struck by her own stuff for many years. She loves to help people live, work and love without being ruled by their emotions. So I really enjoyed meeting her via email and I'm hoping that the interview goes well.

Speaker 2:

And here's the interview Getfreeai. Yes, you've heard me talk about it previously in other episodes, but I'm going to talk about it again because GetFreeai is justa great service. Imagine being able to pay attention to your clients all the time, instead of writing notes and making sure that the note's going to sound good and how are you going to write that note, and things like that. Getfreeai liberates you from making sure that you're writing what the client is saying, because it is keeping track of what you're saying and will create, after the end of every session, a progress note. But it goes above and beyond that. Not only does it create a progress note, it also gives you suggestions for goals, gives you even a mental status if you've asked questions around that, as well as being able to write a letter for your client to know what you talked about. So that's the great, great thing. It saves me time, it saves me a lot of aggravation and it just speeds up the progress note process so well.

Speaker 2:

And for $99 a month. I know that that's nothing. That's worth my time, that's worth my money. You know, the best part of it too is that if you want to go and put in the code steve50 when you get the service at the checkout code is steve50, you get 50 off your first month and if you get a whole year, you save a whole 10 for the whole year. So, again, steve50, at checkout for getfreeai, we'll give you 50 off for the first month and, like I said, get a full year, get 10 off, get free from writing notes, get freed from always scribbling while you're talking to a client and just paying attention to your client. So they win out, you win out, everybody wins, and I think that this is the greatest thing. And if you're up to a point where you got to change a treatment plan, well, the goals are generated for you. So, getfreeai code, steve50 to save $50 on your first month.

Speaker 2:

Well, hi everyone and welcome to the premiere episode of Finding your Way Resilience, development and Action. Yes, this is the transition. It's the premiere episode of Finding your Way Resilience, development and Action. Yes, this is the transition. It's the premiere episode and I'm happy to have a guest who has a lot of experience with trauma. We got in touch online through email and, very happy I read her bio. I was very excited to have her on, but Jennifer Schrappi, did I get it right?

Speaker 3:

Yes, just about Schrappi.

Speaker 2:

Schrappi, fine, all right. Well, welcome to Finding your Way to Resilience Development in Action.

Speaker 3:

Yes, thank you for having me. I'm glad to be here.

Speaker 2:

So you get to be the first one to be on the transitional podcast until it gets to the new name. So congratulations on that. That's exciting and obviously I read your bio, went to your website and everything. Very excited that you're here, but my audience doesn't know who you are, so maybe you can introduce yourself.

Speaker 3:

Absolutely so. Yes, I am Jennifer Schrappe and I am a clinical counselor in Columbus, ohio. I've been in the field for a little over 20 years. I run a practice called Chrysalis Enterprises of Ohio. We have a team of 11 clinicians and I also do speaking and some other mental health related services around the community crisis response and so on and so forth. I'm also a pastor about to be ordained in the Church of the Nazarene, and so a lot of people come see me because they want to be seen by a Christian therapist. But obviously I'm not in this field to impose my beliefs on anyone, so I delight in walking alongside the hurting and helping them find hope and healing Well, do you have time for yourself once in a while?

Speaker 2:

I mean everything you just said. I'm like do you do anything for fun? I mean Jesus.

Speaker 3:

You know that has been a big, needed wake up call. To be honest, I like to be as authentic as I can with you know healthy boundaries around that authenticity and lately I've had to learn to walk alongside the wisdom of you know therapists. Heal thyself. Because I was my own wellness was so much on the back burner for a long, long time and guess what? That wasn't working. I really thought it would. I tried it over and over and over and it was not working, and so finally I had to really give some attention.

Speaker 2:

So what caused you to get to that point you talked about. You know, authenticity is what I believe in too, and if you want to know, if you want to know my definition of being authentic and being truthful, I go back to Alanis Morissette. She said this on a iTunes special that she did it's like there's a difference between authenticity and secrecy. Being authentic is being yourself and you're allowed to have some privacy behind that. There's nothing wrong with that. But if you start having secrets now that's where it goes wrong, and when it becomes secret, it becomes taboo. It becomes something you want to hide from people. So hiding is more important.

Speaker 2:

So I don't know, that's my view and I really liked her explanation. I know she practices Buddhism, like I do, and I certainly respect all religions because of a Buddhist approach, and so that's kind of what I wanted, because I try to be as authentic as I can. But if I'm really having a hard day, I'm not necessarily sharing it on my podcast or with my clients, but if there's a little minor annoyances, sure I'm okay with that.

Speaker 3:

So what led to this wake up call is what you're asking.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I know I was long winded, I'm sorry.

Speaker 3:

That's all good, that's all good. You know, what led to the wake-up call was our oldest going off to college last fall. We have three kids we have our 18-year-old, who is now off at school. We have a 16-year-old son and we have a nine-year-old daughter who would very much like to be a teenager with all the responsibilities and freedoms and joys that she thinks that her older siblings have. And so our oldest goes off to college and I thought that I was ready for it, like oh my gosh, like this, this never ending grind of raising three children has ended, with her Like we, she she's gone. I mean, yeah, she still will need us, obviously.

Speaker 3:

But there there was this end point and I just didn't understand a lot of things you don't understand until you actually go through them, even when you try to prepare yourself right. So there was this end point and she was out the door and it was this huge grief thing for her and for us and it just shook me to the core and I thought, wow, there were so many things that I wanted to do and wanted to teach her and that may not be exactly fair or accurate, because she's one of those where she's basically been raising herself since age 13. And, yeah, she's a highly independent young woman age 13. And, yeah, she's a highly independent young woman. And there was this reaction that I thought, okay, yeah, all right, she's off at college, she's figuring that out and she knows that we are her safety net, but we've got these other two kids and perhaps I could pay a bit more attention to what needs to happen in the here and now, instead of okay, just get through the day, just get through the day, just keep up with the grind, try to keep it all together.

Speaker 3:

It's like near catastrophic type thinking that I have often, often, often struggled with, and so that was a huge part of it. And then I'm very open about this I have struggled with food addiction, actual food addiction, binge eating disorder, dsm level binge eating disorder since, well, for decades now, and that had gotten to the point where my husband let me know that he was, he was scared, he was going to lose me to an early grave, and that was legit, that was a legit concern with as bad as my binges could get. And I realized, okay, wow, life is right now. It's not okay, get this kid graduated and get this kid out of elementary school and blah, blah, blah. Get to the next thing, and then it'll feel okay, life is right now and my health is right now.

Speaker 3:

And, yeah, I might put myself on the back burner because I need to take care of this for the practice. I need to take care of my clinicians, I need to, you know, make sure that the bills are getting paid and see after my mom, and you know blah, blah, blah. But if I fall apart in the process, how does that serve anyone? What good does that do? And that is what will happen if I don't make this a priority. So that is my long answer to your question.

Speaker 2:

Well, I like your answer in the sense that it was so truthful and I appreciate the transparency personally. It brings me to a question I ask on every podcast so did you end up going to therapy for it, or did you use your spirituality or something else?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, both. Yeah, I've come at it from a multi-pronged approach. So I am in therapy and I am addressing it spiritually and I am asking people in my family for help. You know, hey, this time of day is my worst time of day. I could really use somebody being around here at the house so that I don't get into the food, because if somebody else is there then I can't binge in secret because somebody else is there. And just that motivation, just that kind of structure and support will be all I need to make it through the critical hours, and then I can go on with the day.

Speaker 2:

Well, I know that. You know, being able to find those strengths and finding people that can help you is really important. And the spiritual aspect. You know, I know in our field it's not always kosher to talk about spirituality. I'm very much open to spirituality. I joke around and I'm a recovering Catholic going to Catholic school the whole nine yards, but I do respect the Catholic belief system and I certainly see the validity of all the spirituality that goes with that. What part of the spirituality that really helped you go through this? Because you talked about having checks and balances, so to speak, having someone there. But there's a lot of difficulties that go with that, including how do you deal with it spiritually? How did you deal with that?

Speaker 3:

Well, I grew up Catholic as well, and growing up-.

Speaker 2:

My deepest sympathies.

Speaker 3:

The biggest struggle, I would say, in growing up Catholic, and I don't even know if this is as much the case anymore, because I've had Catholic clients who have just presented the most beautiful picture of faith to me beautiful picture of faith to me and so many people.

Speaker 3:

When I was growing up in the church in the 80s and the 90s, it often wasn't that way and what I perceived was that God was this distant, judgmental, can't get close, can't please there for it. So since then, learning that God first of all is love, that God doesn't hate me because I don't eat perfectly, that God has compassion for those who suffer, even those who suffer in addiction, even those who suffer with an addiction that can then lead to being overweight, and all of the I mean it's gotten better but all of the societal judgment that can go against those who are overweight. Like God is so loving and compassionate, always, always, always, always. And so understanding that and really holding on to this God who will always be there and can work through a variety of different interventions and supports and signs and beautiful things, and that has helped me immensely.

Speaker 2:

Well, when you talked about, you know, god being this all powerful, looking at us, looking for our mistakes and punishing us, I think religious trauma comes to mind when I hear that, because I think that, for my perspective, once I started developing my own spirituality again, being a Buddhist, you know if there is a God, and that's just because buddhism is not based on godlike behavior. Um, but I'm not opposed to god, probably existing he or her, but, um, you know, I I think about all the stuff that we used to have don't do this, don't do that. And to me, that's when you start bastardizing religion, when you start saying this God is not loving, he's going to come down on you, he's going to be wrathful. I don't believe that, and I think that that's what the trauma came from. Is that I can't do anything wrong or I'll go to hell, and you're like, well, that's kind of like harsh, yeah, yeah, absolutely so.

Speaker 2:

You know, when we started, we got into a little bit of the spiritual belief system. I appreciate you talking about it, because I believe in that firmly too. Maybe we can talk about the things that you know you've been in. You said you've been doing this for about 20 years. I've been in this business for, as a therapist, over 20 years and work in the nonprofit world for 25 plus years at this point work in the nonprofit world for 25 plus years at this point. Is there things you wish you knew when you started that you now know that, geez. I want to tell people about this.

Speaker 3:

Yes, I would say first to that highly anxious young woman, I would tell her, I would grab her by the shoulders and I would say chill out. Chill out, you're. You're making things too big of a deal, and I get it, because there are a lot of unknowns and you know you're starting out. So you got to feel like you're going to have to prove yourself. But I would say chill out, honey, you are enough, and the people who need you will find you. And when bad things happen, it won't be the end of the world. And I would encourage her to get her own therapy to make sure that she is in the best shape as she goes along.

Speaker 3:

Secondly, I would say be open to be, be open to and even looking out for, multiple revenue streams, because, yeah, you can, you can make a decent buck doing therapy, doing individual therapy. But if you're going to go that the typical route of taking insurance, which means that your, your salary is set according to what they pay, and or, you know, having some self paid clients, but it's mostly insurance then there's not a whole lot of wiggle room there, and so what you'll want to do is think about what else you'd like to do. Maybe it's in the mental health field, maybe it's coaching, maybe it's speaking, maybe it's giving workshops or retreats or whatever. Maybe it's doing CEUs. Maybe it's outside of the mental health field, but be open to that, because it may be something that you need to do.

Speaker 2:

So what are you doing for those revenues? That's passive income, as some people call it.

Speaker 3:

Well, stuff like this, because you're paying me for this right. Oh yeah, a lot of money.

Speaker 2:

Checks in the mail but don't cash it till 2029.

Speaker 3:

The checks in the mail. That takes me back, okay, but don't cash it till 20, 20 checks in the mail, oh, that takes me back. So people will use it. So what? What I am doing, I am putting myself out there more as a speaker, as a speaker, as a workshop giver. That's. That's really the main thing. And in addition to, I'll tell you, what I'm already doing is, in addition to providing individual therapy, I am also fairly regularly doing crisis response work. So a local company has something catastrophic that happens and they, they bring in somebody like me to provide support to their employees, and that has been some fascinating, fascinating work. And so it's another, it's another revenue stream and it definitely, you know, shakes things up a bit and in a really interesting way. But yeah, mainly, mainly the speaking.

Speaker 2:

And when you say crisis work, I mean I did. I don't know if maybe you don't know, I've done crisis work for 15 years before this and I enjoyed every second of it. Honestly, there were some hard moments here and there, obviously, but ultimately there's days where I miss it. Then I realized what I'd have to do and I'm not so sure I want to do crisis work. What makes you fall in love with crisis work later on, Like you didn't start off with that, obviously, so that's why.

Speaker 3:

And I didn't even know it was a thing. I didn't know it was a thing until the company that hired well, not technically hired me, that contracted with me. They found me on Psychology Today and I was like who are you, what do you do? What is this? And it started around. It started in the time of COVID and so that was I had to be independently licensed. In Ohio we have the initial tier of licensure where you have to be supervised and that lasts for about two years if you're working full time, and then you can attain your independent licensure and then that opens you up to more things that you can do. So, yeah, this company finds me and what I enjoy the most is going out there and being a support to people who normally would never set foot in a therapy office.

Speaker 3:

So people who you know they solve their own problems, they keep stuff to themselves, they're not comfortable reaching out to a stranger. A stranger, you know I don't know you. Why would I talk to you? Why would I share my stuff with you? I get that. I get that that's that can be very threatening and you know, culturally that can be just something that is not done. So when I'm out there and letting people know, you know, normalizing stuff for them. I'm like, hey, whatever you're feeling, whatever you're going through, whatever response you're noticing to this thing that has happened, just be compassionate and just know that it doesn't mean that you're weak or that you're crazy or that you're the worst. It's your body showing you that something's not okay and that's okay, and I'm here to help, and I'm here to point you toward further resources that you can take advantage of.

Speaker 2:

That's beautiful and I certainly work with first responders, which has the same motivation as you, basically because they're not, they don't need the help. I know that that's me being facetious here, but they tend to be resistant to it and I'm happy I'm able to reach out to them. And obviously you talked about you know, enjoying that work. There's something about short-term therapy, so to speak very short-term obviously, in the crisis work that if someone feels better within an hour or two, that's very, very satisfying. Yes, I think that with long-term, like one of the things I had to learn and shout out to Bill if Bill is listening, bill is also someone who worked in a crisis team. We were both like doing therapy like it was we solved your problem, what's next? And instead of letting people process, where the outpatient therapy is a lot different, where there's a lot more process, it may take time, it may take more patience because you're not just in the here and now, you're also looking at the past. But anyway, that's that's why, like, I love that stuff.

Speaker 2:

Personally, I missed crisis work. But no, please don't call me for crisis work. I miss it in principle only. But one of the things that brings me up with the crisis work is uncomfortableness, because sometimes it's hard to do those things. You can talk about crisis work, obviously, but do you have anything that made you uncomfortable at times during your career? Oh, gosh.

Speaker 3:

I would say that the things that make me most uncomfortable are situations where a client is struggling with something that I'm struggling with or a client is going through something that is like something that I fear I deal. Not deal with that's not the right word. I'm curious why I said that, but I work with a number of injured workers from our Bureau of Workers' Compensation and they are generally people who were going about the job and then one day, you know, fell or one day had something happen out of the blue. And now they have these long-term disabilities, these long-term injuries, pain limitations, and most of the time I'm able to maintain the therapeutic separation so that I can be present with them and attend them well, but sometimes I think, wow, what if this happened? And, as an added thing, if there's a part of me? As an added thing, if there's a part of me, I'm an IFS-informed therapist, so I think about my emotional system and the parts of that system.

Speaker 2:

And for those who don't know what IFS stands for, what does it say?

Speaker 3:

Internal Family System sorry. So if there's a part of me that can't find fault with the client for the injury that he or she suffered, that's all the more uncomfortable Because this person was just, you know, working an office job and fell down some stairs, or was just just something happened out of the blue, and now again has these ongoing injuries. Oh, my gosh, what if that happened to me? How would I deal with that? Oh, that would just wreck everything, if I had pain all the time, or I couldn't sleep, or I couldn't move my body in the way that my life needs it to move, and oh, that's really uncomfortable. And so sometimes I'll notice that and I likely need to give some attention to those fears so that again I can stay present with my clients and serve them well. So those are the kinds of things that can from time to time not often, but from time to time can can cause a little, can cause a little reaction.

Speaker 2:

Well, I think that we you know, you know talk about things I wish I knew. One of the things I wish I knew was those things happen in therapy, especially if I could talk to the younger Steve. It's part of like you know. You will have some transference, you will have some projections on your clients, you will have those issues and you'll have counter transference about other stuff. Being able to acknowledge those things is really hard and for me, that's one of the things that I wish I knew, because I remember I think the shame kicked in pretty quickly because we had someone come in for a training and talked and had been doing this for several years, and he talked about okay, how many of you have found a client attractive? And I put my hand up and of course I'm in a room a bunch of women. So they're like, oh my, the guy does that, but no, you got to be truthful about those. And that's what he said. He's like, oh, steve's the only one willing to be truthful.

Speaker 2:

But then I had the shame kick in. I'm like, oh my god, why did I, you know, admit that? And so it caused me to spiral down, to never admit that, never say anything. You know that changed. Obviously I'm 10 years. 10 took me about 10 years but what do I care if people are upset with me anymore and everything else. But we tend to do that, I think, when we're working in a group practice, we work in a nonprofit world we start looking at other people for our reaction and what's a good therapist and what's not a good therapist, and we tend to internalize that and I wish I never internalize everything that people are doing, because I had to be Steve and that's the most important part.

Speaker 3:

Yeah Well, I love how you responded in that meeting and I hate how that plagued you for, like the next decade.

Speaker 2:

Well, I think it's like you said. It's like you know, like for me, like when I talk about spirituality and when I say I may not believe in a God, most people are like oh my God, you admit that? I'm like I didn't say he didn't exist or she didn't exist. I just am a Buddhist and according to Buddhist beliefs, you're dirt and that doesn't mean that someone who believes in God is bad or good. Just means that they're different and that's okay if that works for their spirituality. I think that I started off with such a basis of catholicism that, if you believe like us, you're one of us and if you're not, you're against us.

Speaker 2:

And you know, changing that mentality and we look at a political realm and we look at other things, learning not to think that way, is very, very beneficial oh yes yeah, I think that that's very, very beneficial.

Speaker 2:

Oh, yes, yeah, I think that that's where, like the difficulties you talked about, you know I'm sure that with the crisis work too, sometimes you want to just take them home. You know I that's why I can't work with the elderly, because people say, well, why do you like? What's wrong with the elderly? I want to take them all home, I want to take care of them, and that's not fair to them. That's a big transference issue and that's a big, so I don't work with the elderly because of that. Yeah, I hear you. So you know, when you talk about the crisis work too, I'm assuming there's a lot of trauma. I wonder if you can talk a little bit about that experience and you know you can address it not only as a clinical standpoint, but I love to hear the spiritual standpoint too, because I treat trauma with all of that, and so I wanted to hear your opinion on how to treat the trauma of individuals.

Speaker 3:

So, with trauma, there's this wounding thing that has happened right, and if it's on one of these crisis response calls that I do, then it's this recently occurring accident death of an employee just something catastrophic that has happened, and there are multiple ways to treat that. Honestly, the way that I like to treat specific instances is a process where I have the have the person establish a safe place and then put themselves in that safe place, and then I'll get details about what happened and then, with them in the safe place, feeling calm, feeling okay, you know, enjoying the ocean waves If they're at the beach enjoying the birds.

Speaker 2:

There's an ocean in Ohio.

Speaker 3:

Just learned something Just kidding. Sorry, I had to say that, yeah, we're a little bit landlocked here.

Speaker 2:

You got the Great Lakes, though they're pretty cool.

Speaker 3:

We do have a Great Lake, and so, with them in that state, I will then and this is called rapid resolution therapy I will then retell the memory back to theming that incident, while feeling calm and safe, basically rewires the brain and neutralizes that traumatic response. They can then think about it with calmness and they can see okay, yes, that happened, it was horrible, it was really frightening, but it ended and I am okay. I am physically okay right now. So that that is a specific intervention, but generally, what I do is with internal family systems. I will have the person first of all get to know what their emotional system is doing.

Speaker 3:

What are the parts that are active? Is it anxiety that keeps coming up? Is it the inner critic that has a lot to say about you and who it thinks you are? Is it depression that just wants to cancel everything and just keep you down under a rock, because that feels a lot safer and a lot more manageable? Is it anger that has a lot of raging to do?

Speaker 3:

Whatever it is, let's get to know these parts and then the ones that are the strongest, the ones that are the loudest, the most intense, let's see what they're reacting to and then we get to the trauma because, let's say, anxiety is just off the hook, consistently off the hook.

Speaker 3:

I'll say, okay, anxiety, what keeps you so stirred up, what keeps you so protective of this client? And the anxiety will show us a wound and the wound will show up as a version of the client, most likely from the past, maybe from the present, but the wound will represent something that was traumatic for that client. Maybe it's traumatic in the DSM sense, maybe it wasn't at that level, but it was still very wounding and it still really kept the person stuck in some way connected to that experience. So then we go through a process to bring healing, compassion, love, restoration to that wound. And then the anxiety sees oh, this client is not this six-year-old little boy or six-year-old little girl, defenseless that this client made it through that and is doing much better than I thought. I don't have to be standing guard 24-7, freaking out about every little thing. So, according to internal family systems, that's how we do it.

Speaker 2:

I love it. And rapid resolution. I've heard a lot about it. I'm interested in it. Can you just talk about it a little more, because I really like the concept, but I don't think I have a grasp enough to actually say it. And yes, this is another thing I wish little Steve should have known when he started therapy Admit when you don't know something.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, so the rapid resolution therapy, I want to give credit. I learned it out of a book called the therapeutic aha by Courtney Armstrong, and that book had a number of different interventions that were just so refreshing and this one I found the most fascinating. And it all has to do with neuroplasticity, because the brain can be rewired. We may think and feel, certainly feel that whatever we're struggling with according to a mindset issue, you know something that is having to do with the way that we think. We may think and feel that we're always going to struggle with that, that that's just going to be hardwired and we can't do anything about it. And yeah, when we have repeated behaviors, when we have repeated thoughts, when we have repeated coping mechanisms, those grooves are like the Grand Canyon, those neural pathways are quite deep and quite extensive, but we can make new ones.

Speaker 3:

We can teach an old dog new tricks. So the way that we do that is we bring some peace to whatever is driving those old and at one time effective in a way, but then in the grand scheme of things ineffective coping mechanisms and we can instead forge a new path. And it might be like the tiniest little baby stream compared to the Grand Canyon, but it can be done if we address what was driving those old behaviors and thought patterns and coping mechanisms in the first place. So it's, you know, you got to deal with that. But then also add the new, have something new, have new coping mechanisms to deal with the difficulties that come, so that we don't fall back into that vast chasm of the not so healthy ways of dealing.

Speaker 2:

Well, you know, what's funny is I've had that book the Therapeutic Ha Ha on my shelf for over 10 years now. I probably should read it now. So yeah, I do know the book, so I will definitely look at it. The other part, too, is you know you talked about a lot of the stuff that you kind of do. You know you're going to be ordained soon, right, as a pastor. Is there other stuff that you're doing right now where people can like hear you, reach you or anything else like that?

Speaker 3:

I would say the main thing would be to check out my website, jennifer Schrappe dot com. I do have Instagram that I'm slowly getting re going. Part of my own stuckness was not doing a whole lot on Instagram and so that is slowly changing and, yeah, those would be the best places to see what's up.

Speaker 2:

You know I'm going to sound like a young man, but what's your handle on Instagram?

Speaker 3:

Jennifer Schrappe, lpcc.

Speaker 2:

So, in case people want to go and I know that you do a lot of different things Is there a particular thing that you want to promote here? Because I want people to go and get to know you and really work with you, because I really enjoyed my conversation with you Definitely like what you put out in the world, so wanted to ask you if there was anything in particular other than the website.

Speaker 3:

You know, the website and or Instagram would be the best places to be looking for this, but I'm also about to launch an online course and cohort called Heal your Money, stuff and Calm your Life, and it has to do with the intersection of the emotional and the financial. I've teamed up with a money coach and I bring the emotional component again, ifs informed, and he brings the financial component and we help people who, despite every effort, they keep repeating the same money patterns. And again, it's a zero shame, it's a zero condemnation place. It's hey, let's just get to know what's going on inside.

Speaker 3:

Do you have an impulsive spender part? Do you have this rebellious part that will not be put on a budget because that feels like somebody else is trying to control you and it's reacting to something something big or maybe not something big, but it's reacting to something. Do we have this super critical part that just rips you a new one when you spend off budget and so on and so forth? So, again, let's get to know your system and let's come up with some healthier financial management patterns that will really calm your life. So many people struggle in this area, so this is something that I'm very excited about and it's about to be launched. I don't have a date, but information on that will be on my website as well as on Instagram. Heal your money stuff. Calm your life.

Speaker 2:

And definitely as this goes on in March, please keep on checking our website, please keep on looking at different things and I really appreciate you, jennifer, really enjoyed our conversation and I hope people go check out everything that you do.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, this has been great. Thanks for having me. I've enjoyed our time check out everything that you do. Yeah, this has been great. Thanks for having me.

Speaker 2:

I've enjoyed our time. Thank you so much. Well, this concludes episode 195. Jennifer Schrappe, I hope I got it right. Thank you again, really appreciate that. And for episode 196, we're going to go talk about the first responder treatment. It's going to be a co-hosted, but it's not co-hosted, actually hosted by Lisa Mustard. If you listen to it and go to Lisa's website, you can actually get one CU for doing that class. So I can't wait for you to listen to that and I hope you join me then.

Speaker 1:

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People on this episode

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Steve Bisson

Host
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Courtney Romanowski

Co-host