Resilience Development in Action

E.200 Resilience Beyond Traditional Therapy: Journey Through Trauma and Recovery

• Steve Bisson • Season 12 • Episode 200

Share episode

Send us a text

What happens when a decorated Naval Lieutenant Commander, triple-boarded physician, and healthcare executive exhausts every conventional treatment for his debilitating PTSD? Dr. Charles Powell takes us on his extraordinary journey from the frontlines of military medicine to the cutting edge of psychedelic healing.

After 16 years of military service and building a successful healthcare organization, Dr. Powell found himself trapped in a cycle of night terrors, sleep paralysis, and emotional numbness that traditional medications couldn't touch. His lowest point came after selling his company and contracting COVID, when he finally understood how someone's mind could contemplate suicide. The surprising source of his healing path? His tattoo artist, who introduced him to alternative treatments including ibogaine.

With the scientific rigor of a physician and the desperation of someone who'd tried everything else, Dr. Powell researched psychedelic medicine and eventually underwent treatment in Mexico. The results transformed not just his symptoms but his entire perspective on healing. Now medication-free and at peace, he's channeled his experience into creating "Healing Heroes: No Mind Left Behind," a powerful docuseries following six veterans through a comprehensive healing program combining psychedelic medicine with sound therapy, meditation, and other modalities.

The most touching outcome? Hearing a participant's child say, "Thanks for giving me my daddy back." This podcast explores how trauma treatment might evolve beyond symptom management to true healing, challenging our understanding of mental health care and recovery. Whether you're struggling with trauma or supporting someone who is, this conversation opens doors to possibilities that conventional medicine often overlooks.

Don't miss this raw, honest discussion about finding healing in unexpected places and the profound transformation that becomes possible when we approach trauma with innovative, open-minded strategies. Dr. Powell's journey reminds us that sometimes the most powerful healing comes from sources we least expect.

Go to www.healingheroes.com/ for more information on Charlie, his docuseries, and all other endeavors mentioned in the podcast. 


Freed.ai: We’ll Do Your SOAP Notes!
Freed AI converts conversations into SOAP note.Use code Steve50 for $50 off the 1st month!

Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.

Support the show



YouTube Channel For The Podcast




Speaker 1:

Welcome to Resilience Development in Action, where strength meets strategy and courage to help you move forward. Each week, your host, steve Bisson, a therapist with over two decades of experience in the first responder community, brings you powerful conversations about resilience, growth and healing through trauma and grief. Whether you're navigating the complex journey of grief, processing trauma or seeking to build resilience in high-stress environments, this podcast is your trusted companion. From first responders facing daily challenges to emergency personnel managing critical situations, to leaders carrying the weight of difficult decisions, we're here to support your journey. Through authentic interviews, expert discussions and real-world experiences, we dive deep into the heart of human resilience. We explore crucial topics like trauma recovery, grief processing, stress management and emotional well-being. Our conversations bridge the gap between professional insight and practical application, offering you tools and strategies that work in the real world. Join us as we create a space where healing is possible, where grief finds understanding and where resilience becomes your foundation for growth. This is Resilience Development in Action with Steve Bisson.

Speaker 2:

Well, welcome to the 200th episode of my podcast that is now fully rebranded under Resilience, development and Action. My name is Steve Bissau. I hope you like the changes. I hope you like what we're going to talk about, because it's all the stuff that's seemed to be popular with most of you and I'm looking forward to doing that. So for the 200th episode, I have Dr Charles Powell. Dr Charles Powell is a doctor that is a decorated former Naval Lieutenant Commander, was veteran of multiple medical patent holder, former owner and chief medical officer of a major office in Texas. He is the father of a special needs son, charlie. I'm sure he's going to talk about that. He was the inspiration for St Charlie Resorts and we'll talk about that. Who's the inspiration for saint charlie resorts? And, uh, we'll talk about that for sure. Uh, he also founded solo vive, which hopefully we will also talk about, as well as getting ready for a healing heroes uh, docuseries, which he's going to talk about for sure. Um, so here's the interview and I'm very excited. I hope you guys like it. So here's the interview and I'm very excited. I hope you guys like it.

Speaker 2:

Great service Imagine being able to pay attention to your clients all the time instead of writing notes and making sure that the note's going to sound good and how are you going to write that note, and things like that, getfreeai liberates you from making sure that you're writing what the client is saying, because it is keeping track of what you're saying and will create, after the end of every session, a progress note. But it goes above and beyond that. Not only does it create a progress note, it also gives you suggestions for goals, gives you even a mental status if you've asked questions around that, as well as being able to write a letter for your client to know what you talked about. So that's the great, great thing. It saves me time, it saves me a lot of aggravation and it just speeds up the progress note process so well. And for $99 a month I know that that's nothing. That's worth my time, that's worth my money, you know. The best part of it too is that if you want to go and put in the code Steve50 when you get the service at the checkout code is steve50 you get $50 off your first month and if you get a whole year, you save a whole 10% for the whole year. So again, steve50 at checkout for getfreeai will get you $50 off for the first month and, like I said, get a full year. Get full year. Get 10% off, get free from writing notes, get free from always scribbling while you're talking to a client and just paying attention to your client. So they went out, you went out, everybody wins and I think that this is the greatest thing. And if you're up to a point where you got to change a treatment plan, all the goals are generated for you. So get freeai code Steve50 to save $50 on your first month.

Speaker 2:

Well, I want to welcome everyone to the premiere episode of Resilience Development and Action. I'm very excited. It's a new rebrand. We're going to talk about it soon. It's a great episode. I'm so excited because, uh, charles powell dr charles powell, excuse me, but I call him charlie was recommended to me and, just reading his bio, you get a lot of those as a podcast person and yours was like I answered, I think within 20 minutes or so, and I couldn't wait to meet you. So I can't tell you how excited I am to be talking with charlie powell.

Speaker 3:

Welcome thank you, steve, thank you very much I read your bio.

Speaker 2:

That's why, like right away, I said when can we meet? Uh, to you, to the person who contacted me. So what I would like you to do is maybe I can describe what you told me, but it's no fun, it'll be too clinical anyway. So might as well go with your definition of who is Charlie Powell.

Speaker 3:

You know, a movie studio recently approached me about buying the rights of my life story and I didn't understand why. To me it's just my life. But he said I've had a Forrest Gump life. I've lived five lifetimes in this life that are just been amazing. I'm a dad, first and foremost, single dad, taking care of my kids, love them to death. I was a physician for 26 years. I'm still a physician. In that time I was triple boarded, originally in family medicine, then in trauma, emergency room medicine and eventually cosmetics.

Speaker 3:

I spent 16 years of my life in the military, four years in the army, 12 years in the Navy, and that's how I was able to afford my education. I go by the mantra of a plaque that my father gave me for Christmas when I was 12 years old that says choose not to be common. And I am far from common. I built up. I built up uh 2005,. I left the Navy and I built up a huge healthcare organization in North Texas and eventually sold it to United Healthcare. No ominous music in the background necessary, but um, anyway sold it off to them and uh basically went on a journey of healing myself. Uh, I was in corporate America at that time and learning that the differences between running a business in healthcare and being in corporate healthcare were totally different not quite suited for my taste. I had been on medications from the VA for decades for PTSD.

Speaker 3:

Probably at about 2007, two years after I left the Navy is when I really started noticing something wasn't right. Personally Now, granted, I had started off when I was 19. I joined the Army to pay for college, and the day I graduated from in-vets individual training as a combat medic in the Army was the day that Operation Desert Shield became Operation Desert Storm. And so welcome to adulthood. Really really quick From there I demobilized, came back, went to school, had a great education. I stayed in the military longer than I needed to by my obligation. I just enjoyed the culture, I enjoyed the camaraderie and I enjoyed the training. I got excellent, top-notch training with people that I really cared about serving. So I ended in 2005 as the Afghanistan conflict started to heat up and at that point came out into civilian practice and worked for a place for about a year and a half, bought it and built it into a huge organization that I previously mentioned that I sold. So in that time I also dealt with the struggles of PTSD.

Speaker 3:

I started off with occasional night terrors. I've suffered from sleep paralysis since I was probably about seven years old, where I wake up but your body doesn't wake up with you familiar with it, right up, but your body doesn't wake up with you uh, familiar with it, right. And all you can do is close your eyes, reboot, wake up again and uh, that couple with night terrors is not a good combination, and so they evolved immensely over a period of years. Um, many of the medications I was tried on SSRIs, snris and whatnot just had side effects or depersonalized me to the point where it was like I was watching my life through a movie theater. I hit multiple low points about the same time every year, right around June, for some reason, and that annual low point would culminate into me being isolated, me being more withdrawn and over a period of time I mean years ago even into alcoholism, and I was never diagnosed. I just drank a lot and I drank most nights and realized after a couple of years that's not how I wanted to live. So I stopped that too it was that easy for me, luckily but moved on to greener pastures. And you know, through the years I went through multiple therapies group therapy, one-on-one therapy and you know, through the years I went through multiple therapies group therapy, one-on-one therapy and, as you well know, steve, therapists come in all sorts of different shapes and sizes as far as quality of what you get. But as a physician, when you know what the next question is already coming at you, when you know the technique that's coming at you, after a while you realize okay, am I really in the right arena? So, after suffering for a number of years, to the point where my lowest point I just sold my company and just gone through six, seven months of diligence, which, on a company that size it was. They knew everything about me, inside and out, seven days a week, working 12 hour days. Then I got COVID.

Speaker 3:

After three years of surviving COVID with my institution and being on the forefront and the front line serving our communities, I finally got COVID. And on top of all that and everything, I just I hit the lowest point I ever had in my life. It was around a June timeframe. I remember that I never had a plan, but for the first time I could understand suicide. For the first time I could understand how somebody's mind could get there and it didn't scare me, I was alert to it. I was aware of it, but it didn't. It didn't scare me. I was alert to it, I was aware of it, but it didn't scare me.

Speaker 3:

From that I had been on medication for about I don't know 15 years, pretty stable from the VA and others. One of the medications had caused me a central nervous system tremor that would come out in board meetings If you put half a Coca-Cola in me or half a cup of coffee in me. I sounded like Katharine Hepburn and I don't know about your audience, but my kids don't even understand that reference. Hardly anybody does anymore. I think it's a great reference, classic actress.

Speaker 3:

But it got to a point where I needed to do something different. I had to. I had sold, I had everything you could possibly want in this world. I mean, here I am. At the time I think I was 53, 52, 53. And you know I'm not your typical doctor. I was triple boarded. I was an executive, I was a leader. 40% of my body is covered with artwork that I've chosen over the years. I don't go by doctor, never really have. If patients insisted I would. But I chose at that point to be uncommon about something else.

Speaker 3:

I had exhausted pretty much what I felt was available in Western medicine. I started looking outside of Western medicine roughly about three or four years ago. I was working on a big piece of the artwork on my body and of all things. My tattoo artist became a very close friend of mine who opened my mind to psychedelic medicine. I didn't know the two words should even be put together. The same thing, right? It's one of those things where, like I don't know man, I haven't touched anything since I was like 18 years old and that was a really bad trip. When a good friend of mine put a 10 block in my mustard of a corn dog I was eating, right, not a good move for me, steve. Not a good move.

Speaker 2:

But hey, we all do shit right.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, yeah and with all that, I eased into it. But I started pulling the research. I started pulling some NIH studies. I started looking at two specifically, ayahuasca and ibogaine, and of course, a lot of people heard about both of them.

Speaker 3:

Now, especially related to trauma, I seem to be drawn a little bit more to ibogaine the godfather of psychedelics, let's call it right and at that point I was living in Mexico about a week a month, working remotely. That was just part of my exit agreement when I sold the company Not a bad exit agreement at all, but honestly, steve, that was the only place I could sleep through the night. I'd go to sleep at night listening to the ocean outside, under the stars, and I could sleep through the whole night, and it was just amazing sleep through the whole night, and it was just amazing. So, anyway, I found a clinic in Mexico that used Ibogaine and I went into treatment in August of 23. This is after April of making the decision to do so, and at that point I didn't care. I didn't care what happened to my mind, I didn't care what happened to me, I just knew I could not be on the medications anymore. I didn't care what happened to my mind. I didn't care what happened to me, I just knew I could not be on the medications anymore and my wife at the time had actually had three or four episodes of my night terrors actually winding up and me not assaulting her. But you know is it was the best decision I ever made in my life.

Speaker 3:

I prepared for months to go into that journey. Most people have two sessions they go in. Now I put my hands on everything I could read, steve. I talked to consultants, extra consultants, because I wanted to make sure that when I went to that journey it was the most effective possible and that one dose, that one treatment, it's here we are. It's where we're at now. We're we're coming into March now of 25. And I've been medication free ever since. But more importantly, steve, I've been at peace. What I went through there was just absolutely amazing. But that gives you my bio. I'll let you ask some specifics.

Speaker 2:

Where do I go from here? I mean, there's so many great things that you talked about, you know I would love to hear more about the psychedelics, because for me, what people don't understand is it like they think they're going to go trip balls and for the treatment of trauma is to not trip. It's actually due to and it's helped so like at least two or three of my clients really really well, better than any antidepressant or TMS that I've ever seen. And if you don't know what TMS is, it's transmagnetic. Yeah, not you, I'm talking about the audience. You're a doc, I mean, you know this shit. But I like to talk about different treatments and TMS does work. But I find it's repetitive where I find that if you do the microdosing and the work with the psychedelics, you can actually not need them after a while, where TMS runs its course and you got to take it again.

Speaker 2:

So where can we go? I mean, there's so many things. You know I'm sitting here going what part of Mexico? How can I get that deal? But I also, you know, like I said, thank you for your service. I think that what one of the things that I find struggling in my clients who served in the military is that, you know, on November 11th, hey, thank you for your service. And then the full year goes by. Hey, thank you for your service. So I try to point it out on every day, but Veterans Day for people. So really, from the bottom of my heart, thank you for your service as a Canadian.

Speaker 3:

Thank you for that. And I have a response to that that I didn't have before, and that's that my service is just starting. Oh, great, I'll explain that in a little bit.

Speaker 2:

Well, how about you go there then? Because I just want to finish on this In my opinion, I'm an American now, born and raised in Canada. I've got dual citizenship. But the one thing I've never served in the military. So people who minimize their use in like going into the military, I always go. Yeah, I didn't have the balls to do it. So, yeah, you're already better than me in that way.

Speaker 2:

I've served in different ways in this country and in my country, but I also kind of like always want to like make sure that I recognize that outside of November 11th, because I'm sick and tired of people just doing it on that fucking day. But anyway, I want to hear your story about your service just starting now, because I see my service have started probably somewhere after 16, when I realized what caused me to be where I was at, and so I know where my service started. It was around 16 when I realized losing my best friend led me to high depression and a lot of different things. But I want to hear where your service. You say it's just starting. I want to hear more about that.

Speaker 3:

Well, so put yourself in my place. I had a um. I was. I was nicknamed at the clinic that I went to as the legend because I came so prepared. I was real time integrating.

Speaker 3:

And for those of y'all that know about psychedelic medicine, I'll kind of give you my take on it, my analogies on it. But it's like when you use psychedelics for recreation tripping balls per se, it's like jumping in your favorite sports car and going for a joyride, if you want to use that analogy, whereas when you're going in with intention, you're going in with the plan, you're going into a space where your walls around your traumas have been lowered, where they're accessible and they're recognizable. But you spend time in your pre-work because, I want to stress very clearly, the medicine part of this is only about 20% of what really needs to happen. And there's too many fucking people out there that are out there thinking, if one medicine works, do more medicine and more medicine, just keep on going, and they're frying their damn brains, they're putting themselves in really bad situations. But for me, I did a lot of pre-work and that pre-work was, if we're going back to the analogy of the sports car is to say you know, I went in with a roadmap and I went in with a place and not roadmap places I needed to go to, things I needed to visit and things I needed to do and a checklist on my intentions per se. Right, and I came out of it with a healing that I never knew was possible.

Speaker 3:

Now most people when they go into an experience, we'll see a lot of things or experience some things they may not fully understand, but I was real. They go into an experience, will see a lot of things or experience some things they may not fully understand, but I was real-time, integrating in my experience and had just a phenomenal, phenomenal outcome. I had this linchpin moment during my experience where I kept on getting shown this one part of my life over and over again and for me this was 4k reality, third person living this, where some people go in they don't remember seeing anything, but they wake up at peace. So it's different for everybody. I want to stress that. But my experience was I kept on reliving this one section of a really tough story that I've been through when I was a trauma surgeon. That, basically, was a story that you just can't imagine anybody living through A daughter who had been raped by her father, since she was age seven and she was in her 30s, and her last words on the table before she died from a murder-suicide between the two of them was I forgive him.

Speaker 3:

And I never heard those three words. I heard them, but I didn't hear them. You know what I mean, right? And in the experience he kept, I kept seeing it again and again, and again, and I had a guide and that experience which don't even get me onto the metaphysical and parts of trying to understand what that even is but what I will tell you, though, is that the message was really clear, like don't look, listen. And as I listened to it for the umpteenth time, living it again in this experience, it was, I heard the words I forgive him, or her last three words, anyway. So for me, my service is just starting.

Speaker 3:

You have to imagine I woke up on the other side of this medication, free, number one, number two, at peace, realizing there's something beyond happiness, Didn't even know it, like a warm, damn blanket, you know. And I'm floating around the pool at this place where I went to get my treatment, and I'm floating around in the pool at this place where I went to get my treatment, and I was just in dismay, steve, that as a physician of a huge healthcare organization that led that organization to where it was, that had tons of doctors, tons of technology, we always would pride ourselves on being on the forefront of technology at the company we built that. Um, how do we not know about this? I was forget. I was just pissed that I found out about this from my tattoo guy right, and I wouldn't have paid two shits of attention to it otherwise anyway. So as I was floating around in that pool trying to think of what next oh, another nice coincidence you know the neuroplasticity that comes from these medications I have had a neuropathy in my left leg since I was in the first Gulf War, falling out of the back of a deuce and a half truck, and it some days was like my leg and foot were in burning grease and other days just dull, painful pinprick right, it was gone and it never came back.

Speaker 3:

My neuropathy still has not come back. You know that should be impossible, but anyway. So as I float around that pool and let me be clear too, even when you go in with intentions, there's still some tripping balls in there.

Speaker 3:

So trust me, it's, it's an experience, but um, there's not just tripping balls for the next 36 hours, but anyway right, right, right, and you're in there with intention and purpose, but it's uh, yeah, it's definitely some um interesting things you experience if you know how to interpret them. So anyway, um, I was in dismay about the fact that why doesn't Western medicine know about this? Why did none of my doctors most of my doctors you got to realize when I went on this. We're like what, what are you doing? What, what do you mean? Like you're gonna go fry your brain, like come on, man. And I didn't tell a lot of people. I told more people when I came back because it was part of my journey after that was that people have to know about this and Ibogaine is not the safest psychedelic in the world. I mean, you're talking about something as a one in 400 death rate when not administered properly in a non-medical environment. I didn't know, that.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, yeah. And it's definitely not meant for recreational use, even if it was safe. Simply because it's, um, man, it'll beat the hell out of you if you're not going to be cooperative with it. It will beat the hell out of you and your ego. So, um, I remember that there's things they've done to make it medically safe. You know magnesium sulfate infusions prior to and during your infusion, even vitamin C being utilized now, and a lot of other things done in an ICU type setting, with trained physicians that are there to handle the arrhythmias that can come from it.

Speaker 3:

So, anyway, I chose a good center, went there, had a good success, but I could not believe. I almost did not know about this. So two things came to me. That's that. Number one I wanted to build the resort I've always wanted to build. I have a 20-year-old special needs son who is center of my life and we've always had trouble traveling with him, so we're creating the world's first ever resort for special needs families down in Mexico. That's super cool. And number two I wanted to get back to the veterans. I wanted to figure out why is this not more profoundly known?

Speaker 3:

I went to the Vets Conference in San Diego, a great organization that I heard Governor Rick Perry and Senator Crenshaw speak at as they passed the torch between each other, and these guys are, as lawmakers, we're having trouble getting traction, and from the left and the right you've got people in politics backing this. Why in the hell isn't going anywhere? Well, I won't get into the depths of why, but I think we all kind of know why. But I decided that the really only thing we could do here would be to give more people the experience that I had, and what I meant by that was I could use my money. I could use my fortune that I just made on selling this major company to a big conglomerate, or I could use it to educate, to teach.

Speaker 3:

So on a plane trip home from that conference, I looked over at my wife at the time and I said I'm going to create a TV show. Just like what I said, I'm going to create a TV show that isn't just me telling my story. I could get on podcasts, tell my story to thousands and tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of people and tens of thousands and hundreds of thousands of people. But how much more effective would it be to tell the story of six first responders or veterans from ground zero of identifying them and start to end in a docu-series where we don't even know the outcome. And that's where the magic happened. So I've never directed, produced or anything before. But you know what, as a leader in an organization, you don't have to be an expert at everything. You just got to know the people that are and bring them on the team. And I learned that well over the years and plus I've been watching TV since I was born, so I'm an expert, right.

Speaker 2:

We all know about TV.

Speaker 3:

We all know about that right. I mean I grew we all. We all know about tv. We all know about that right.

Speaker 2:

I mean I grew up watching marcus wellby, I really just dated myself right there. But uh, marcus wellby, I'm waiting for you to talk about trapper john md yes, sir bam.

Speaker 3:

So I, we put together healing heroes, no mind left behind, and it is a docuseries that season one is complete and will be launching this year. Where I originally was just going to be a pilot, I uh, when I got home from my treatment steve, I? Um turned off most electron. I went to one meeting back at the company where they had to change their tattoo policy for me and everything. They were really sweet. But I there, I think, for 45 minutes, and I looked around the room with the miserable people in that room answering emails and some of them listening, some of them not, and I stood up after 45 minutes and I just I walked out. I couldn't be there anymore, could not be there anymore and never went back. Anyway, so I started working on these things, these two projects, and I had about three o'clock in the morning I turned my phone on and when I turned my phone on, there was a Facebook. I don't know even why I went to Facebook, but I'd been on my phone in weeks and there was Ryan.

Speaker 3:

Now, ryan was the son and grandson of some patients I'd taken care of for a couple decades and I watched his history in the military. I watched his um, watch the story unfold as he got hit by an IED. Uh, he was actually on the team that would detect him. He was the dog handler. He just great story. So he had a traumatic brain injury as well as PTSD when he left and I'd watch his videos this video going. I'm doing great working for my dad now. Everything's awesome, but you know how to look through it. I know how to look through it Right and it's just that I'm like nah nah, nah and um, he was.

Speaker 3:

Uh, he was on Facebook live. It was three o'clock in the morning and he was in full confession. That was either he pick up the phone and do a Facebook live asking for help or he was going to put the gun back in his mouth. And I was viewer one of one. And at three in the morning I watched that thing and I called him the next day. Took a little bit to get through him. He thought I was trying to get in touch with his dad, but no, it was him, told him about what I'd been through and I told him he goes, man, I can't afford that man, I ain't got that kind of money. I was like I'll pay for it, brother, I don't care. And a few days the pilot. Anyway, long story short, I wanted somebody to balance him in the show, somebody, a female demographic, somebody, just to tell the story from perspective of.

Speaker 3:

Well, you and your viewers know, trauma, ptsd is not a diagnosis of special forces, it's not a diagnosis of combat, it's not a diagnosis of the military. It is a diagnosis that you want to remove the word disorder from it. And now you've got anxiety, depression, insomnia. You've got every symptom that trauma or stress has led to. It's just a slightly different magnitude. But we're too busy in Western medicine labeling symptoms as a problem and trying to treat them. Oh, don't get me started, but anyway.

Speaker 3:

So I joined up with Mission Within out of Tijuana and they fed me some really good candidates. I couldn't say no to any of them, steve. Their stories were just remarkable. So I took all of them and I funded all of season one of Healing Heroes. No Mind Left Behind where we go through the US, starting in June of last year, we interviewed their inner circle, their families. We interviewed the people that knew them from childhood usually when most of their traumas first happened and told a story.

Speaker 3:

And I ask a question. I'll give you a little precursor to the show for all of them multiple times. I'm just like all right, so you're a kid with your box of crayons right and you're sitting there and you're drawing a landscape. What's the sky look like in that landscape when you're a kid? What it looked like when you came back from the military, what does it look like now? And in it all? Most people think that the reason I'm asking the question is because I'm trying to gauge where their mental state is at that point right, uh, the turmoil, the dark gray skies, the lightning, the darkness versus blue sky and birds and clouds and unicorns and stuff. But no, that wasn't the reason for the question and I'll tell you for it at the end of it.

Speaker 3:

But, um, basically, I had, um the privilege of bringing those six individuals down to Tulum in Mexico, to a resort that I took down for just the show brought healers in. But we did a multifaceted approach. We had sound healing, we had meditation education, we had watsu, we had Qigong, we had so many different healings that we brought in to this, in fact, a great part of the story. Barney Fritz was a friend and a physician, a friend of mine in the military, who came on the show as some backup another physician just to back up in case anything happened. He did everything but the medicine and we went through the stages of healing that we designed just for veterans for the show and his outcome was remarkable even without the medicine. And we went through the stages of healing that we designed just for veterans for the show, and his outcome was remarkable even without the medicine. It was really pretty great. Everything starts with gratitude, so we could stop you at some point.

Speaker 3:

We're going to stop you. Yeah, because I've been writing notes.

Speaker 2:

For those who go on YouTube you'll see I was writing notes. So there's so many things I want to say. One of the biggest mistakes that I do as I tell people in therapy is that the biggest mistakes you'll ever do is the pursuit of happiness. While it is okay to be happy, being happy all the time is just not possible, and you got to be able to learn from the sadness, the anger, the disgust and everything else. Not put it down. I mentioned that. And talking about medicine, boy, do I have a conversation with you? I think that if you ever want to come back on, I can have an hour conversation about how people misuse medication, and think I just had this conversation with someone who's like yeah, I'm still feeling a little depressed. You've been in therapy for three weeks. Yeah, you're still going to be depressed. I don't work miracles, but I need something. Now I'm like so prozac takes six weeks. I mean, I don't like I don't know what to tell you, so just want to mention that I also wrote a, wrote down like oh, yeah, he hangs out a really shitty place in san diego, mexico. Sorry man, that's really hard. I apologize.

Speaker 2:

The tattoo stuff made me laugh because I don't have a tattoo, but I always found it very interesting that people judge because someone has a tattoo. Who gives a crap? You have a nose ring and earring, I don't care. Are you doing the job? Are you doing what I need to? I don't care. After that, we need to get over ourselves.

Speaker 2:

And you talk about the politic, politics of all this. You know, like for me, you talk about the left or the right. No, there's businesses, control both and they're the issue. And yes, I said it on this podcast. And if I don't get one sponsor because I've said this, I'm okay with it, because to me, it's big business. Who controls the politics now? Not politicians, nor do people. But hey, you're in Mexico, I can always go back to Canada, so we're good. But I want to hear more about, because the other part of the medicine I wrote down also the symptoms versus the treatment. We try to minimize symptoms but we don't do the treatment. No, we got to do the treatment in order to minimize the symptoms, but people don't want to do the treatment because it's hard, because that's how it is. So now I'm having diarrhea of the mouth because I can go on about all this, but I want to hear more about the docu-series because, from my perspective, if sound healing, chameleon salts, ayahuasca me talking to you works, I don't care. I shared this story, so I'm going to go on a tangent. I promise I'll let you talk after this.

Speaker 2:

I had a guy when I worked at parole who came in. He was on his seven or eight DUI it doesn't really matter which one he's up to and they look at me like hey, he drank again. He's only got about 30 days left on it. We don't want to send him back. What you're gonna do?

Speaker 2:

So I sat down with him talking. He's staring at my desk and he's like what's that? I said, oh, it's a little buddha. It was a little wooden buddha. They're like oh, what is buddha, buddhism about? So I shared it with him. He's like can I keep it? And I said are you gonna stay sober? He's like yeah, it's okay, take it. And again, I don't know where he is today. This is years ago. But for the 30 days that I was with him and even parole told me like he's never stayed sober that long, ever that we know of.

Speaker 2:

So people like well, did you push Buddhism? No, it's a piece of wood really when you think about it. That's what kept them sober. I don't care what works, I just don't care what works. And I think that when you talk about doctors who are like you, who are very much open to these creations of what can or cannot help instead of going you know what an infusion of this that? No, how about we just fucking meet the person where they're at and talk to them and then go from there? That's when doctors unfortunately have moved from because of the decision tree and all that fun stuff. But, um, anyway, I'm gonna shut up now. I'm going to let you continue talking about the docu-series, unless you have any reactions to what I just said.

Speaker 3:

No, I couldn't agree with you more. And you know, the art of medicine becomes more of the algorithm of medicine every day, of evidence-based medicine, and you do this and you do this. There's something about the art of it that tends to go a little bit more every year, and I think that's why you see such dissatisfaction amongst health care providers these days. You know that's a whole other show right there, but yeah, I'll tell you, I'll tell you more about the show. So you know, we take these veterans down and for 10 days in Tulum. Let me ask you this so in your days of providing service and therapy, in a year's time, Steve, how many days in that year do?

Speaker 3:

you get one of those. Yes, moments per client, I'm lucky.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, any year period any year period, I probably have, like I would say, 12 to 14, roughly aha moments, as I call them. Like I would say 12 to 14 roughly aha moments, as I call them uh, the eureka moment, and they that's because it takes time and you got to break down 14 different barriers in order to get there and the defense mechanism of human beings. You know, you can go freudian on my ass all you want, but I think we also develop these tools to protect ourselves, including our amygdala. We can go on about the brain too, for several hours, but yeah, that's what I think it is like. Do I get 12 to 14 a year? Probably I get a few fuck yous in a good way, not in a bad way for my clients and I. People like, oh, you get upset about no, it's great when they say fuck you, that means you got them, uh, but otherwise, ahas, maybe once a month I get a good haha moment of like, oh my God, this is breakthrough. So that's my experience.

Speaker 3:

So I had 10 days consecutive, of the most amazing 10 days of my career, watching those six individuals actually seven if you include Dr Fritz go through transformation, something we created, that medicine augmenting and the healing that happened. And those six, seven, all eight of us, now nine, 10 that were on the show are like a family and that's that loss of community really is a big part of what we lose in the military. You know, if you look at the general problem in PTSD, it's not just what we're exposed to in the military, it's. It's not just what we're exposed to in the military, it's. It's being thrown into an environment where we leave the military and I call it the unwritten trauma, the unsung trauma, where you know we're no longer with people of the same mentality and the same culture of camaraderie and we typically are not doing our same jobs anymore because not quite legal to do that on the outside darn. But you know we lose that purpose, and that loss of purpose with loss of community are two really big hits to basically setting you up for the lowest of lows of your life, man, let me tell you. So what I would tell you is that at the 10-day mark when we disbanded, and about a month afterwards I went back through and I re-interviewed all the same people and sometimes a little bit more to get their stories.

Speaker 3:

Probably I can sum it up with Maisie. Maisie is Keegan's daughter out of the Northwest in Oregon, but it latches onto me like crazy when I go. I'm Uncle Charlie. Now, right, and just the cutest thing is Keegan and his wife. Their kids are just amazing. And she said this one comment when we went out to the State Park and I wasn't allowed to film in the State Park, which was like so disheartening so I wanted to capture this, which he captured it later. She goes thanks for giving me my daddy back and she goes thanks for giving me my daddy back. And you get a comment like that and you know you did good, you know you did right. So this show is powerful, it is, uh, telling, it is full of heart. But it's really changed in its focus as we've been editing it and getting season one ready.

Speaker 3:

By the way, the reason that I asked those participants for the color of the sky and their landscape wasn't necessarily to gauge where they were. It was to tell them this at the end of their healing process that they were in down there. They were the artist all the time. You know they were the artists each time. And once people realize that they're the, they're the writer, director and producer of their own movie of life, understanding that everything's going to be happy and you're going to learn a lot more from the hard times than you are from the easy times. So embrace them and lean into that wave as it hits you Cool scene in the show. I can't wait.

Speaker 3:

I don't know which episode it's going to be on yet, but we all, after ice plunges, ran into the ocean in Tulum and you know, you see that first wave hit the first few people and it's knocking on their ass and they stand up. A couple of people just stand there going I ain't going any further and a few times and then you see, finally I start to learn to dive through the waves. And then there's Keegan body surfing a wave back in and you're just like that isn't life right there, and how you get through those waves that hit you again and again. You know I got a new thing now, rather than asking people, how are you doing in life? I guess your head above water. You know that's the main thing. It's your head above water. You know that's a key thing, but anyway the show's spectacular. We don't know exactly where it's going to live yet. We've got a lot of potential. We've been looking at a movie theater debut and an option there. But we're looking at May 31st, memorial day.

Speaker 2:

Oh perfect.

Speaker 3:

I know it's short timeframe and we're really up against the wall on it, but hey, you got to draw a line in the sand and shoot for it at least.

Speaker 2:

Well, in post-production at least, and that's possible once you're in post-production just puts a lot of pressure on everyone else. No, I know, you know, that's I'm. I'm so excited to see this because I think that people don't see the development of treatment. They think it's a one and done. You know, like what you see on TV or whatever, treatment takes a long time, and having six episodes to see that progress is perfect and six is much more. I don't know if you said six, but-.

Speaker 3:

Six participants, nine episodes yes, Nine episodes Nine episodes, I apologize.

Speaker 2:

And with the nine episodes it's palpable for people to listen to nine episodes. It's not palpable to listen to 23 episodes for progress, but we all know that it takes that much time, if not more, sometimes.

Speaker 3:

You know Western medicine and you've lived this does not view mental health as being real in a lot of situations, or it's secondary. It's something's wrong with you when, if you think about it, we spend so much time in Western medicine making this physical thing that gets our minds around as healthy as we can, but we don't spend much time on the mind and preventative type stuff and things to keep it healthy. And the purpose of the show was for awareness that these treatments were even available. But what it evolved into honestly, steve, was an awareness that it's okay not to be okay. Mental health is real. 55% of Americans, I believe, at some point in their life will suffer from a mental health issue, which means to me you have a 100% chance either suffering from one or having somebody you love go through one. So pay attention to the contents of the show, because this isn't just about healing. It's also about preventing and teaching you healthy ways to deal with the stuff that comes at you in life.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely, and I think that you know I go back to a conversation with what we call the mental men on my podcast and we talked about isn't most of mental health issues based on trauma? And it doesn't have to be a big T trauma, small T trauma, but it's our reaction to that stuff as part of it, because I mean, I would argue that sometimes people with breathing issues, neuropathy, other medical issues, is really based on mental health issues that need to be addressed in order to heal the body. But I think that I just said something that Western medicine would look at me and go, and I know you wouldn't.

Speaker 2:

Obviously you seem to be on board with what I'm saying, but it's the truth.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, it is Mind and body. Mind, body and soul. I mean there's a lot to it in just three words put on a plaque. Right, it's for real. You know, what's interesting is that as I've explored more into this realm of this world, I've gotten it wasn't just Ibogaine. I've looked into ayahuasca, psilocybin, and really just understanding this, because I figured if I'm going to make a show about it, I better be some kind of an expert about it. But what I find consistent is this whether you're trying to explain what's happening from a scientific standpoint, a mystical standpoint or a spiritual standpoint, a lot of times it's all the same words, just slightly different word, but all the same meaning. And you find so much crossover between the three that you're just like they're all three wrong, they're all three right and it doesn't matter. Just look at the end result. Come to your own conclusions once you see these six go through, because we're going to do it again season after season after season Reproducible.

Speaker 2:

Exactly after season, reproducible Exactly. And if you think that solving one will solve the other two, you are in the wrong world. You can be spiritually sound, but it doesn't fix your physical and your mental. You got to do all the work and again getting back to the pursuit of happiness, I feel slightly open, better because I'm praying this God or this belief system that makes me fixed. No, that doesn't. That means that you have a belief system and now you've got to work on the other stuff.

Speaker 2:

You know I see it a lot on different ways, but you know I want to be respectful of your time. I truly, you know I started a conversation here saying, hey, maybe it'll be a few episodes. Charles, from the bottom I should say few episodes. Charles, from the bottom of my heart, you're always invited back Anytime you want to contact me again to talk about anything. I truly felt very connected to you. I really thought that we did really good together. But as we wrap up, I want to know what you want to. Really, we don't have a place yet for your show, but do you have other things that you want to talk about to people find you and reach you out?

Speaker 3:

I'll tell you I'll do one of the best, steve. The second trailer for the show is about to hit here. In the next several weeks I'll bring it back to your show for a debut man. It's pretty cool. We're super excited. We got three and a half million hits and views in the first I think four or five days that we launched it last time, so it's got a lot of traction. Wherever this lives, it's going to be where it has the most impact and that means if I have to let it live on YouTube for the most viewership, it will live on YouTube on my dollar, right? But whatever's meant to happen is going to happen and the right opportunity is going to show up when it's supposed to's just how it works for me now.

Speaker 2:

I can't explain it I think it's because you've seen what not processing all that stuff does. So now, when you become less selfish and become more selfless, we all have selfish sides, that's just life. I think that you realize, like, my podcast is something similar to that. Some people like, oh, you don't monetize it enough. Like, is it impacting the people it needs to impact? Yeah, I don't care, I just don't care, it's not about that. Yeah, could it be nice to be Joe Rogan, as we joked around earlier? Yeah, sure, and I'd be great, but in some ways you got to compromise who you are when you're that big. I ain't going to compromise shit about who I am.

Speaker 3:

I agree with you on that man. I agree with you on that.

Speaker 2:

So I want to thank you for your time and if you're saying you're coming back, I'm going to say soon to be returning. Yes, charlie Powell, thank you. Thank you Really appreciate it.

Speaker 3:

Steve, I look forward to meeting you in person, face-to-face, at some point too. Brother, I want to go to mexico. Bring it, we'll do our. We'll do your next show down there. I got a great setup for you perfect.

Speaker 2:

Well, that completes episode 200. Dr charles powell, I will hold you to this promise that you will come back. I really look forward to having you back on. Uh, you guys, go check all his stuff out. They'll be in the show notes. Can't wait to hear the docu-series and how it goes. So that's that. So I hope you join me for the next episode with the developments that we're doing right now, because we're going to be working with a lot of first responders and grief and trauma. The next episode will be with Michael Sugri. I hope I had his name right and I hope you join us then.

Speaker 1:

Please like, subscribe and follow this podcast on your favorite platform. A glowing review is always helpful and, as a reminder, this podcast is for informational, educational and entertainment purposes only. If you're struggling with a mental health or substance abuse issue, please reach out to a professional counselor for consultation. If you are in a mental health crisis, call 988 for assistance. This number is available in the United States and Canada.

People on this episode

Head Shot

Steve Bisson

Host
Head Shot

Courtney Romanowski

Co-host
Head Shot

Dr. Charlie Powell

Guest