Resilience Development in Action

E.207 Breaking the Silence: First Responders and Mental Health

• Steve Bisson, Elizabeth Ecklund • Season 12 • Episode 207

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What happens when the strongest among us need support? In this powerful conversation, Elizabeth Ecklund takes us on an extraordinary journey from fighting fires in Antarctica to fighting stigma in mental health. As someone with 15 years of experience spanning firefighting, emergency medical services, and nursing, Elizabeth brings a rare perspective to the critical conversation about first responder mental health.

The stigma surrounding mental health in emergency services creates a dangerous paradox: those who routinely face trauma are often the least likely to seek help. Elizabeth articulates this challenge with striking clarity, drawing from her own experiences to illuminate why cultural competency matters so deeply when providing therapy to first responders. "They don't know how to deal with their grief," she explains, highlighting how traditional coping mechanisms within emergency services—dark humor, emotional detachment, peer discussions—often fall short of addressing cumulative trauma.

Her adventures at the South Pole provide not just fascinating stories—from living with three twenty-somethings in cramped quarters to experiencing oxygen saturation levels of 82% at 12,000 feet elevation—but metaphors for resilience in extreme conditions. Like the South Pole's challenging environment, the mental landscape of emergency work requires specialized knowledge and adaptation strategies that standard approaches may miss.

Through MindForge Therapy Group, Elizabeth has created a sanctuary where first responders can speak freely without fear of judgment or misunderstanding. Her approach acknowledges the unique needs of this population, incorporating humor and practical interventions that "don't feel like therapy." Most importantly, she recognizes that addressing these mental health needs impacts not just individual well-being but team safety, family relationships, and ultimately, the communities these heroes serve.

Whether you're a first responder seeking understanding, a mental health professional wanting to better serve this population, or simply someone fascinated by human resilience in extraordinary circumstances, this conversation offers valuable insights into bridging the gap between emergency services and effective mental health support. Listen now to discover how one woman's remarkable journey from firefighting to therapy is helping heroes heal.

To contact Elizabeth, go to www.mindforgetherapy.com

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Speaker 1:

Welcome to Resilience Development in Action, where strength meets strategy and courage to help you move forward. Each week, your host, steve Bisson, a therapist with over two decades of experience in the first responder community, brings you powerful conversations about resilience, growth and healing through trauma and grief. Whether you're navigating the complex journey of grief, processing trauma or seeking to build resilience in high-stress environments, this podcast is your trusted companion. From first responders facing daily challenges to emergency personnel managing critical situations, to leaders carrying the weight of difficult decisions, we're here to support your journey. Through authentic interviews, expert discussions and real-world experiences, we dive deep into the heart of human resilience. We explore crucial topics like trauma recovery, grief processing, stress management and emotional well-being. Our conversations bridge the gap between professional insight and practical application, offering you tools and strategies that work in the real world. Join us as we create a space where healing is possible, where grief finds understanding and where resilience becomes your foundation for growth. This is Resilience Development in Action with Steve Bisson.

Speaker 2:

So which of the intros do you guys like best? The shorter one? The longer one? Let me know in the comments. Go to send me a text in the notes. But welcome to episode 207.

Speaker 2:

If you haven't listened to episode 206, cindy Doyle was on Code for Couples and Code for Couples. If you get the drift of that and if you don't listen to the episode, you'll get it. But she was a great interview. But for episode 207, we're going to meet with Elizabeth Eklund. Elizabeth is another person I met through Facebook. She has a background in firefighter, emt and nurse. She has a lot of experience on the table, as well as working as an airport rescue firefighter in Antarctica. Can't wait to talk about that. I'll be perfectly honest with you. She has 15 years of combined service in the emergency services and she's trying to reduce the stigma regarding therapy and is committed to addressing issues such as depression, anxiety, burnout and PTSD for the professionals who serve. I'm excited and I hope you enjoy the interview.

Speaker 2:

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Speaker 2:

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Speaker 2:

Well, hi everyone and welcome to episode 207. I have an amazing guest and I met her again through Facebook and through a group, and what I found fascinating is I've never had someone who is stationed in Antarctica. I got it wrong and she's from Alaska, so she's like, hit every kind of like Antarctica, antarctica and everything else you can think of Arctic. I know I'm just kidding, but anyway, elizabeth Eklund, welcome to.

Speaker 3:

Resilience Development in Action. Thanks for having me.

Speaker 2:

You know, one of the things that's fun is that people always laugh. But I love having someone who hasn't been on too many podcasts, because this is just a conversation and I kind of like remind everyone that if you're listening to Resilience Development in Action, you're probably a first responder, you're probably a therapist who works with first responders or you like people shooting the shit, and that's exactly what I wanted always to be able to do, because some people who have done too many podcasts become too structured. So don't worry about it, just be yourself and just begin being yourself. If you could, I read your bio. Obviously, we talked a little bit through you Facebook, what's it called? Messenger, and so I get to know you a little bit. But how about you introduce yourself to the audience?

Speaker 3:

Okay, my name is Elizabeth Eklund. I have a lot of letters behind my name. This goes a little something like this MSW, bsn, lswaic and RN. I'm also an IFSAC 2 firefighter, hazmat operator and EMT retired, and I'm also the owner of MindForge Therapy Group, where I am not only a first responder and a nurse myself, but I also serve first responders, frontline workers, that kind of wonderful thing, because that's also what I work in.

Speaker 2:

Well, we need more of you. I like having people like I think a few episodes before you had someone who used to be a police officer who is now getting his master's in psychology, and while I'm more than happy to say I have some experience, I don't know what it is to be firsthand right there with those situations. So more and more of you are needed. So thank you for joining our side of the dark side of the treatment facility. Well, we're not quite the insurance companies just yet, but we're on the dark side. You know, I, when people I put this out to a group online and say, hey, who wants to come on my podcast? And you answered fairly quickly and I always wonder what, why people want to come on to my podcast. I mean, I'm just one guy, so I'd like to hear why you decided like, oh yeah, I want to go on this podcast.

Speaker 3:

Absolutely. I think what's important is the message that we're trying to get out to first responder groups. A lot of these groups are not necessarily going to get help for mental health issues because of the stigma surrounding mental health, and, of course, we are all strong and resilient in what we do, and so a lot of times we feel like when we reach out for help, there's going to be a stigma there, we are going to feel less strong, we're going to feel vulnerable, which, of course, we don't want to feel. And so I think, by coming on podcasts, talking out in the community, reaching out to different groups, however that may be, is very important, because otherwise we're missing an opportunity to connect with people and offer up the help that they may be needing.

Speaker 3:

And, of course, as everybody knows, access to mental health is very hard to get. But it seems like there's more barriers, even with our groups, because we put the barriers there ourselves and there's obviously. Then there's other barriers that we have with, you know, insurance or, just again, finding a therapist who understands. And I've had it where I've had clients come to me and say, you know, I went to a therapist and I immediately couldn't work with them because I would explain to them this traumatic incident that occurred or happened and the clinician would start crying. So that's where you know you run into some issues too. They have a bad experience in therapy. So, anyway, I have been looking for ways to sort of connect with the community and I thought this would be a great way to reach out, and not just because obviously I'm in Washington state and I think you are on the East Coast, so this is kind of a national way to reach out, which is great. I enjoy, you know, however, I can getting out and having a conversation about mental health.

Speaker 2:

Well, you know the other part too, that I really appreciate you talking about two important things the stigma, and you know one of the things that I hear a lot of stuff on this coast, particularly the Northeast, you know. Yeah, well, there's a stigma here in the Northeast because we're tough people. I'm like, eh, pretty sure it's across the country, actually North America in general. So you bring that up, it makes perfect sense and you're absolutely right. I mean, one of the things we talk about constantly on this podcast is cultural competency. If a therapist can't handle it, then you need to be perfectly blunt that you can't handle it.

Speaker 2:

I can't handle certain things as a therapist. If you send me and I'm trying to I can't work with people who are elderly because I want to take them home and take care of them, and that's not healthy, right, that's not right. So I don't work with the elderly because I would not challenge them. I have zero qualms about challenging particularly first responders, my military folks and all that, but for older people I just want to take them home and like, oh, they're so sweet. I talk to my therapist about my countertransference issues. Don't worry about that.

Speaker 2:

But the point is is that I think that there's definitely things that you can't do. Well, and I think that it's a great message you just said some therapists have just have to say I can't do it. And I'm sure you have other stories like that, if people like started to cry. Or I've had people tell me, like I told my therapist about a story. There's a firefighter and we'll say it was a medical, pretty significant medical, but a very young human and they they need to take a breath and have to get up, and the firefighter, paramedic, are like what the fuck is this? So I think it's important to talk about cultural competency every single time we can.

Speaker 3:

Absolutely Right, I agree. I think that being culturally competent means that you are able to work with the population that you are supporting, and I think that's important why a lot of therapists are moving to this niche of working with first responders because we have the cultural competence to work with this group, and that's coming from being you know, like you mentioned the last guest being a police officer. Having been a firefighter, you're coming in with an awareness that a lot of other therapists aren't going to have, and so it helps greatly also with the therapeutic relationship, which we all know is extremely important for even facilitating the therapeutic process. So there's that there. There's that.

Speaker 2:

No, but I think it's. It's also being able to no-transcript. Therapists have to be able to handle it. And I tell people, if you want to know if you can handle first responders, if you're in the continuous states, even Alaska, even Hawaii go on a ride along, Go at a firehouse, Sit around the table, Even if it's at shift change. Up here usually they are on 24, so shift change usually is in the morning. Go sit and learn, See how it goes. And I think that that's important to do because until you, you know, I've been on calls, I know what a call is. But if someone says, oh, I was on a call once, someone gave you a phone call, you're like, oh my God, I'm already behind the eight ball with this therapist. Knowing those terms, knowing those things is so essential.

Speaker 3:

Right, I agree, and I think it would give them some insight. But I also think that a lot of the insight comes from, you know, the frequent exposure to trauma, right, first responders regularly encountering traumatic situations, and that's a cumulative grief that occurs from experiencing it over and over and over again. So going on a ride along, great, to get in there and, you know, meet the first responders and maybe to see firsthand a little bit of what's going on. But also it's just one of those things that I don't think the understanding will be that deep unless you have spent time in the field for many years. Spent time in the field for many years.

Speaker 3:

Then you understand, like emotional detachment and how the public expectations affect you, right, and that we're supposed to be heroes and we have to maintain composure and we're not supposed to be human and we're not supposed to have emotional, visible responses to what's happening. And so this is, of course, what also leads to all the burnout and you know the impact on our team dynamics and also, obviously, again going back to stigma it creates. You know, stigma surrounding vulnerability and the fact that we're not supposed to be vulnerable, we're supposed to appear strong and resilient, and that kind of thing in the face of the public.

Speaker 2:

And you forgot another important part the high levels of suicide in the first responder world, which to me is one of the biggest plagues no one is talking about. You know, that's part of what I talk about, because who has the access to the most lethal means?

Speaker 3:

Right.

Speaker 2:

Right, and I think that that's something that's not talked about, because, okay, don't go talk to someone because you're weak. Now you don't talk to someone for a while, you can't handle your own stuff anymore, not because you're bad, but because you never reached out, and then the best answer is to off yourself. And if this is too graphic for people, I apologize, but I just want to be real about things. That's why you need to lift that stigma. That checkup from the neck up is as important as the checkup from the whole body 100%.

Speaker 3:

And I think what you're also bringing up is coping mechanisms. First responders generally don't have very healthy coping mechanisms. Nurses are known also for having a lot of substance abuse. There's been a lot of issues with that, like taking medications from patients, things like that and a lot of it comes down to they don't know how to deal with their grief. They don't know how to deal with, you know, the post-traumatic stress disorder that's sort of inherent in our industry. They just don't know how to deal with that. And also, you know, a lot of times they turn to peers, and peers can be great but it doesn't generally provide the support that they need, that they would get with a therapist.

Speaker 2:

Right when I hear about turning to peers. Peer support groups are absolutely important and I certainly run a couple of those and I know people have in different departments a hundred percent important. However, I don't do therapy during my supervision with other therapists. I actually have a therapist who does therapy with me and I do my supervision with peers or have those conversations. That's how I use the example of yeah, it's a way different, yeah, you can talk to your peer and again, nothing wrong. And if the peers are, are, are, that's that's enough for you, that's that's great. I'm okay with that. Sometimes it's not.

Speaker 3:

Right, exactly. And again, I think this is why you know we are trying to train first responders, health care providers, things like that, on recognizing the signs of like PTSD and burnout. And then also there's a real big push for implementing CISD sessions, especially after, you know, traumatic incidents occur on scene. But that's also not always possible. But that's also not always possible. I mean, the last time I was working, I remember and again, this isn't including Antarctica, which was very recent, I'm talking about working in, you know, oak Grove EMS back in Kentucky, and that's where you're just running, running, running all day. And so you have critical incident after critical incident and there's not always a lot of time for a CISD to occur. And I recall times where I had a great supervisor back there and he would call me up and be like are you okay? You know, is everything okay? That would be our form of CISD and, you know, be mid run to somewhere else.

Speaker 2:

So well, yeah, and I think we, you know, sisms and SCISDs are some very similar names, very similar process. But you know, like also getting a bunch of first responders together to discuss an event sometimes takes 48 to 72 hours. By then you shoved it in the vault, you shoved it somewhere, or you're a mess and you continue being a mess and there's no attack here, that's just what it is Right. And then there's the stigma of being in a group of six, seven people in the room going. Yeah, I can't talk about that. So again, do I point out the shortcomings of peer support CISM, CISDs? There's shortcomings of peer support cism, cisds your shortcomings. A therapist, I've mentioned that too to me. I think it being informed of your options is important, but knowing what are the limits of those options is also as important. But more importantly right now, I want to know how you do firefighter emt work on a polar bear. Uh well there.

Speaker 2:

That was my way. That was my way to present that like I want to hear about antarctica yeah, so antarctica does not have bears, despite what a lot of us, that's the arctic.

Speaker 3:

Oh gee right yeah, so there's no bears in antarctica? Um, there are lots and lots of seals and, you know, during a part of the year we get the orca and the whales and penguins. Um, so for me, I signed up to go during the summer. So, uh, summer season for Antarctica is opposite because of where we are in the globe. So I left last fall. Um, I ended up working right about four months and I started out where I did my first month and a half in McMurdo Station, which is on Ross Island in Antarctica, and out there the firefighters are supporting McMurdo Station, which, at the height of the summer, has about 1200 residents, and it's not, in my opinion, not too bad. Again, I did grow up in Alaska. That's why I was joking with you about, like, did you mean Alaska or Antarctica? So it was in summer.

Speaker 2:

This was pre-interview. I didn't make any mistakes yet on the podcast. Don't sell me out.

Speaker 3:

Oh okay, sorry, Sorry, but yeah. So it's interesting that McMurdo to me reminded me a lot of Alaska. It has a very dry cold, it's very mountainous, it's beautiful, you know, if you like snow and you like mountains. It has a little bit of a town, so there's bars and there's coffee shops and it's kind of what you would expect in a town.

Speaker 3:

As far as the fire department, the fire department rotates about eight firefighters or so to the airfield at every time. We're responsible for town there as well as airport rescue firefighting, so we would spend a lot of time out on the different airfields. Most exciting thing happened while I was there was we had a couple treadmill fires. We had a couple treadmill fires and I had one patient who was medevaced and the medical team had difficulty getting vein access. They had already done some vein access and they were running out of areas to stick. So they came to me on the airfield and said, hey, could you put an IV in this guy before you put him on a flight? And so I did. So that was the excitement of that area.

Speaker 3:

But of course, if something like a plane were to crash or any of those issues, then of course we would be ready to respond. So thankfully nothing like that super traumatic happened while I was out there, but all in all, very, very good, fun experience. I do recommend for people if they're interested in you know the extreme contract work they can find something through Amentum if they're interested in like firefighting work or for the nursing side. Utmb University of Texas Medical Branch is who contracts out for that. So I kind of had options going over there and in fact there is a therapist who is out there but it's yeah, it's a first responder company out of Colorado and I want to say it's called Nicoletti Flattery and Associates.

Speaker 3:

I might be messing that up, so if I am, I apologize, but they have the contract with the National Science Foundation, so they have a therapist that's out there during parts of the year, and so I was able to connect with them and have conversations. So that was really interesting. But halfway through my time there they actually asked me if I would go out to South Pole. And so South Pole is a bigger deal, because you're at 12,000 feet elevation. It's only about 150 people during the summer and it's only solely for ARF, it's only to be out in the airfield.

Speaker 3:

They have a fire brigade that is trained for the fire station, which they train them early on in the year, and then the fire brigade stays in the building during the winter, which is, you know, like a nine month rotation, and so basically, as the firefighters out there, we would train the brigade to then take over, because there's no firefighters there during the winter, because there's no flights, there's no planes going in and out of South Pole. So that was an interesting experience because I said yes before I really understood what I was saying yes to, and I didn't realize that I was going to be needing to take medication to deal with the elevation. And then, once I got out there, the fun was looking at my heart rate. Of course, because I'm a nurse, you know I brought my pole socks and my own gear and stuff. So my, my pole socks every day was like 82% O2 on room air and I'm like this is really interesting yeah.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. So that kind of throws you off. And, of course, after about two weeks it was up to about 92% and, um, I could feel a lot better, clearly on 92%. But you know, what's interesting is, after spending time at South Pole, I went back to McMurdo on my way home and the very weekend that I came back to McMurdo I decided to run a 10k, because I understand now why athletes train in high altitude, because once I came back I felt like superwomanwoman and I was like I'm just ready to like do all these things. I hadn't been running, you know at all, for two months in South Pole and I get back and I was like 10k, it's, that's fine, it's six miles, that's easy that's not the thought of everyone, by the way oh, it's firefighter mentality, I can do it no, I did say that it wasn's firefighter mentality.

Speaker 2:

I can do it. No, I did say that it wasn't firefighter mentality, yeah.

Speaker 3:

So anyway, it was a great experience. I learned a lot. I really love National Science Foundation. I love the work they're doing. Parts of me wish one day, maybe as a young child, that I had thought about becoming an astronaut, because I think I would have loved that line of work. My husband says I'm already a space cadet. So you know there's that I'm working out okay with that, but you know there's worse things to be called anyway, right.

Speaker 2:

So again, maybe my curiosity yeah, where do you aerovac someone when you're in the south pole, not the south, or even, uh, what was it? Fourth, the other like where do you, where do you aerovac all these people? Christchurch, new zealand oh my god, and that's what a two-hour flight well, it depends.

Speaker 3:

So we have okay, I know, here here comes the long answer. I apologize, but yeah. So we have different planes out there, right? So we have like C-130s and then we have like the Globemaster, which is the big military plane. The big military plane is the one that you all want to be on, which is going to go from Christchurch to um McMurdo in about four hours, right, four hours.

Speaker 3:

However, when the runways start to melt because, you have to remember, antarctica is pretty much just ice, right?

Speaker 3:

So at a certain point our phoenix airfield is no longer able to hold the glow master, the c-130, so we go to the hercules.

Speaker 3:

And then, once we go to the hercules, which is the little prop plane right, I say little, it's not little, but it's smaller than the Glowmaster Then you actually have a plane that's on skis and it needs to land. You know it can land on a smaller runway, that is not. They're not quite set up the same, it's not as packed, right, it can be on a less packed runway. So that plane will come and land and then go to Christchurch, and now you're looking at about an eight to nine hour flight, depending on the headwind and, of course, when I was going back to Christchurch, I was on the little plane with the bucket for a bathroom, by the way, and, you know, at the back of the plane flying for about nine hours because we were flying into the wind. So you hope for the big plane, but sometimes you get the little plane and going to south pole, you have no choice. It's either going to be a basler, which is one of those little older world war ii planes, or it's going to be the hercules.

Speaker 2:

So all I have is an image of you, like, like, if you're on YouTube just pulling on something so that the propeller goes uh well, that's all I can imagine.

Speaker 3:

I will tell you, it is not uncommon for those flights to actually not take off, and one of the first times I was on the Hercules getting ready to leave South Pole, we were on on the plane and of course you have to imagine this plane. There are no seats. This isn't commercial, this is a military. So they have these nets along the side of the plane and in the middle of the plane and then you know a bunch of cargo in the back and you're just sitting on these nets and you're packed in like sardines, everybody's packed in in there, like you know big red coats that we wear for National Science Foundation, and we're all packed in and we have these little tiny port windows that you know, if you're lucky, you can maybe see out of. They're not everywhere. Again, not a commercial plane.

Speaker 3:

So we're on this plane and we're getting ready to leave and this plane all we're doing is going back, turning, going back, turning. We're like what is going on? And so apparently they were having difficulty and getting something with the plane. They're having some kind of problem. So we basically effectively got a ride around the airfield before they then just took us off and said, nope, not today, it'll be a different day us off and said, nope, not today, it'll be a different day. So that happens, and there's been times like, uh, when I was working at the airfield in south pole, one of the hercules was coming in. They weren't being, they weren't able to see the runway very clearly. So they came, came down like they were gonna land, and then they went aheadended, turned around and they left. Wow, so that can happen, yeah. And can you imagine being that poor person on that plane who's thinking I'm going to get to go to the bathroom here in five or 10 minutes and then, all of a sudden, nope, now you're going back to McMurdo, it's another three hour flight.

Speaker 2:

My God, there's a lot of unique challenges with that stuff absolutely but did you enjoy yourself, which is the key, important question I have I did.

Speaker 3:

I did the communities out there are what really make it, and I think that's because everybody is out there for the same goal. Everybody is out to support the science, everybody is out out to be, you know, an adventurer. Everybody wants to go hiking and biking and skiing and doing all sorts of things. So there was a lot. And for me you know I live out in the country, out in Washington state, so I mean I have horses, I go riding, that's what I do for fun. So for me it was like being in a city Now, granted, it's not a big city, but for me it was like a lot of socialization, more than I'm used to, because I'm used to this country, you know, quiet country, living where I don't have a lot of friends nearby. And so it was. It definitely was quite the experience.

Speaker 3:

And when I did get to McMurdo, when you are a first year person at McMurdo station, you will sleep in a room with three other people. You will have roommates, and I'm not talking like divided room, I'm talking about a room with three other people. And you know, you guys get creative and you hang up curtains to sort of make your own space and that kind of thing. But I'm a 40 year old woman and I was staying in a room with three 20 year olds and I was like this is you know? I feel like I'm back in my college days here.

Speaker 2:

My God, that's. That must've been a quit the head trip.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, it was. And they say you come back and then you, you like, get better lodging as time goes by, like you might get one roommate the next time.

Speaker 2:

So is that what's gonna? Are you gonna go back?

Speaker 3:

um, I think I would like to go back one day as a therapist. I think that my days are complete as a firefighter and you know, of course, when I applied to go out there, I had not been working as career fire for about eight years or so, and so I thought I'm going to apply because this is something I've always wanted to do and they take me, they take me. If they don't take me, they don't take me. Right, and I applied and they took me, and so I thought, well, ok, I guess you know I'm going to shut down my practice for a little while, because, also, I tell my clients you know, if you there's something you really love and you want to do you better, go for it. We don't want to have regrets at the end of the day, kind of thing. So I was living what I was preaching and I went out there and I did it. So, but I do think that I love, love, love, love being a therapist. I love it more than I ever thought I would.

Speaker 3:

And, of course, you know, I grew up in that same family four generations, navy men and women who really did not believe in therapy. They did not believe in it, right? So it's surprising to me if you would ask me, of course, you know, 15 years ago, whatever, if I had, if I even thought about being a therapist or even seeing a therapist, I would have been like are you out of your mind? So again, this is why I relate really well with my clients and this is why, when I work with clients, I tend to I tell them a lot of times I'm probably going to be unusual as a therapist in some ways, because I try to sort of sneak in interventions. I like to present interventions in a way that doesn't feel like therapy, because I know, I feel, you know, sometimes the idea of therapy already daunting, but then to show up to a therapist who literally sits there and stares at you and is like you know, this is your time, what do you want to say?

Speaker 2:

It happened to me this week. Actually, one of my therapy, one of my clients you know I have he happens to be in the group and then he said in individual counseling, you know when you were talking about and I can't remember exactly exactly, but we're talking about cognitive distortions, and he's like you heard you talk about this, I was wondering about any and I'm like, oh so I actually did therapy, even in a group of first responders and alpha people.

Speaker 2:

Uh, that you like yeah yeah, yeah, we don't want to talk about that, do we? Uh, it's doing those interventions without them knowing.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Speaker 2:

I think that's important. And first responder therapists I hope you heard me and first responders now you know how we work.

Speaker 3:

Right, we try to keep it fun, we try to keep it light and we are also okay with you cussing.

Speaker 2:

We actually had another conversation prior to starting the recording today that we are okay with cussing and actually there is some science that supports it is actually good for your mental health. So there you go. I mean to me, I think that sometimes you know I think I did this a few episodes ago but sometimes a really good fuck, really well placed, is just amazing great. And for my listeners who knows I'm from quebec and my first language is french uh, fuck means seal in french, for real. You can look it up. So I tell people I'm just talking about seals, that's all I'm doing. I'm not swearing, talk about seals. Um, so something to keep in mind.

Speaker 2:

But, as you know, like again the conversation went really well. A couple of things I wanted to ask you before we kind of have to wrap up here. The first question is you know, we talk about firefighters, we talk about EMTs, we talk about paramedics, we talk about individuals in this type of field. How did your own experience kind of like influence as a firefighter influence, how you look at trauma and its effect on the first responder world, because that's an important question to ask so how did my personal experience um shape?

Speaker 3:

is that what you're asking me?

Speaker 2:

it can be yours or you can be your observations. It could be anything you want.

Speaker 3:

Oh okay, um, well, I feel like my personal experiences obviously have included responding to, like, a lot of emergencies, which are often intense and traumatic, and there's a lot of acute stress responses that occur right after you experience something like that. And I think a lot of times what happens is we sort of as first responders, we tend to become almost numb right. Again, this is a part of how we're meant to appear, putting on that professional appearance for people, that kind of thing. And so I think that just my personal experience is experiencing everything firsthand, right Seeing how different excuse me, different events affect my colleagues, how we have conversations after those difficult events. Again, a lot of times there's a lot of humor going on, a lot of even detachment. You know you get co workers who are clearly like their head is not in the game anymore. After that happens, just sort of witnessing this, and then I think that I'm sorry, I'm kind of rambling now, I'm like I'm trying to think how to answer this more succinct.

Speaker 2:

No, I dig that. It really is about answering the best you can, because I think that in World War II we talked about was it the 100-mile stare or whatever the hell we called it, and that's where before we started calling it PTSD or trauma. And you know, it's not the first. In my experience anyway, it's not the first traumatic experience that a first responder has. It's usually the 27th one. And is it number 25? Is it the 30th? You get it, but you get to that point where you're just like staring into space, you're just doing what you need to do, but you're no longer there.

Speaker 3:

Right, right. And so I think that we oh, my goodness I'm having I'm blanking on what I'm trying to say here we have a way of basically bringing ourselves out of the situation right, and that can be by we kind of go into our head, we become numb, we have obvious feelings of helplessness and guilt, right, especially if we can't save somebody, which also can highlight in our brain feelings of inadequacy and self-blame. And so, anyway, the experiences I have, I basically think that they've taught me, you know, the significance of seeking help and developing coping strategies, and I've learned that the trauma doesn't just affect our mental health. It affects our relationships, our decision-making, our overall well-being from day to day. And so understanding these effects through doing this work has helped me to advocate for mental health resources and support systems for first responders. So I think it's important to recognize and acknowledge and address that trauma is essential for both. I'm sorry, addressing trauma is essential for both individual and team resilience.

Speaker 2:

I mean, if you're not there like someone mentioned once on my podcast who is a firefighter is like if you're not there because of your own trauma, that affects the person that's with you. If we're going on a call together, you know it's the importance of getting that treatment is so essential because you being that way doesn't affect just you, it affects your, you know your, your teammate, your whole team and the department.

Speaker 3:

Usually, when you're not there, not to mention relationships outside of work. Right right, your, your children, your wife, your spouse, whatever, whoever that person is, those relationships then have an issue. You know you might have an issue with that. And then now you're coming back to work again. It's sort of a big loop.

Speaker 2:

That's why it's so important to take care of, you know, underlying issues, underlying thoughts, dysfunctional thinking patterns, underlying issues underlying thoughts, dysfunctional thinking patterns, things like that, right, and I think that that's what brings you to for me anyway, to bring up MindForge Therapy Group and it's your group, I'm pretty sure and tell us a little more about that.

Speaker 3:

Sure. So I created MindForge Therapy out of necessity A few years ago when I was really trying to figure out what I wanted to do. I was, you know, doing during COVID. I was a nurse and I went through that whole process working as an RN, and that's where, again, I was seeing a lot of the burnout and the fatigue right, we're having that across the industries and so I was doing a lot of soul searching as well. I was trying to figure out what do I want to do, how do I want to pivot, what do I love doing, what do I not love doing?

Speaker 3:

And this is about the time I went back and I got my master's in social work and again during that time I was like, what do I want to do with this?

Speaker 3:

And the answer kept coming back to me is that I want to work with a population that I love and that I know, and again, that's my nurses, that's my healthcare workers, that's, you know, again, frontline first responders, that kind of thing.

Speaker 3:

And I really feel like there's such a need there because, again, not only do a lot of times we as first responders, we don't want to seek out that assistance, but it's also harder when you have somebody that may not understand what you're going through, or like in the case I brought up earlier, where you talk to somebody to help you and then you end up making them break down, and I mean again this I've heard of this happening to multiple clinicians, where those clinicians were not prepared. So that's the thing is. I wanted to bring to the community support that is knowledgeable, that is coming from somebody who has done the work, who's also not going to sit there and cry if you have to talk about something difficult and also isn't going to judge you because I again, I've firsthand experienced it and gives you an area where you can cuss, you can scream, you can cry. You're not going to get judged, you can be all those things, do all all those things.

Speaker 2:

Right.

Speaker 3:

And so that was the idea. And also I had a lot of people were telling me oh don't, you know, don't take insurance, because there are a lot of clinicians that are moving away from taking insurance. And I said I want to be as accessible as possible. So you know, I'm I'm on many, many, many insurances, so I take lots of insurances and even if I don't take an insurance of somebody, you know that they don't have kind of thing or I don't. I'm sorry, I don't take an insurance somebody has. I will work with them to make it affordable because I feel like it's so important to get the help. So that's what I'm here for, that's what MindForge was created to do.

Speaker 3:

And again, I have a great deal of clients right now who are nurses, firefighters, I've got dentists, I've had FBI agents, I've had Amazon executives, I've had all sorts of people high stress, and you know the thing is, a lot of us are dealing with a lot of the same issues and so, anyway, that's what MindForge is here for. I want to connect with those people and I want them to come in at least give it a try if they're. You know, they never had therapy and I get a lot of people like that. They don't know what to expect and I just say come, try it out. And I'm probably not going to be the same as the next therapist, right, because none of us really are the same as the next. But I tend to be a little bit more lighthearted. I do enjoy humor as well and, again, you know, a lot of us like our humor to cope with things. So I'm okay.

Speaker 2:

You need your dark humor and you need your gallery.

Speaker 3:

You need our dark humor, and so, anyway, if you need some dark humor therapy, please come to MindForge and have a nice time.

Speaker 2:

How do we reach you at MindForge?

Speaker 3:

So they can either call me. They can go to my website, which is wwwmindforgetherapycom. I actually have a self-scheduling link there where they can go in and they can get all set up on that link. They can call my business line at 253-398-9565. I also have a Facebook page for MindForge, which is always fun. I post a lot of different things there I also share from different local fire departments and Blue Hero Project and a lot of different things there I also share from different local fire departments and Blue Hero Project and a couple of the other things that are important in our community here. And so, anyway, lots of ways, lots of ways to reach me.

Speaker 2:

Well, I want to thank you for your time, Elizabeth. I've got to wrap it up here because we went this one fast and I really appreciate you. I appreciate what we talked about and hope we get to talk again very soon. You come back on a podcast.

Speaker 3:

I would love that. Thank you so much for having me. Thanks, Elizabeth.

Speaker 2:

Well, that was episode 207. Thank you, elizabeth Eklund. Can't wait to show those pictures on my website and through the podcast, so please go and check it out, and I hope you join us for episode 208, where we're going to talk about Father's Day, and I hope you see me then.

Speaker 1:

Please like, subscribe and follow this podcast on your favorite platform. A glowing review is always helpful and, as a reminder, this podcast is for informational, educational and entertainment purposes only. If you're struggling with a mental health or substance abuse issue, please reach out to a professional counselor for consultation. If you are in a mental health crisis, call 988 for assistance. This number is available in the United States and Canada.

People on this episode

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Steve Bisson

Host
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Elizabeth Ecklund

Guest