E.224 High-Functioning Doesn't Mean You Don't Need Help

How do we treat our physical health versus our mental health? Former London Metropolitan Police officer Jonathan Kemp spent 12 years in law enforcement while battling undiagnosed bipolar disorder, depression, and dyslexia—yet refused to seek professional help until his late 30s.

"I was determined to fix myself on my own," Kemp reveals in this powerful conversation. "I saw it as an insult to go and see a doctor. It was a weakness or admission of defeat." This mindset, particularly prevalent among first responders and those in high-pressure careers, kept him struggling silently for decades before finally seeking the treatment that transformed his life.

Kemp articulates the profound disconnect in how we approach different aspects of our wellbeing: "If you had a chronic knee problem, you'd go and see a knee specialist. It defies logic that we're happy to see a professional for the rest of our body, but when it comes to the brain, we have this almost inbuilt default that you should figure it out yourself." This insight cuts to the heart of why many resist mental health support despite overwhelming suffering.

The conversation explores how structured environments like policing can sometimes mask mental health challenges, while shift work can exacerbate them by disrupting sleep patterns—what Kemp identifies as his "#1 foundation" for mental health stability. He shares practical advice for supporting struggling colleagues and navigating recovery resources when confidentiality concerns arise, especially in professions where stigma remains powerful.

Now an advocate and author, Kemp discusses his upcoming book "Finding Peace of Mind" (releasing on World Mental Health Day) and his ambitious seven-month awareness walk across the British Isles beginning January 2026. Through both initiatives, he's transforming his decades of struggle into resources that might help others find support sooner.

Visit Jonathan at the following links: 

https://www.viscountrochdale.com/
https://www.facebook.com/jonathankemplondon
https://www.instagram.com/Jonathankemplondon
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonathankemplondon

You can order his book at Amazon: www.amazon.com/jonathankemp

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Chapters

• 0:00 Introducing Jonathan Kemp's Journey
• 3:01 Policing While Battling Mental Health
• 9:34 Breaking Addiction Stigmas in First Responders
• 17:57 High-Functioning People Need Mental Help Too
• 28:54 Supporting Struggling Colleagues Effectively
• 34:44 Finding Peace of Mind Book Launch

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:00

Welcome to Resilience Development in Action, where strength meets strategy and courage to help you move forward. Each week, your host, Steve Beesimple, a therapist with over two decades of experience in the first responder community, brings you powerful conversations about resilience, growth, and healing through trauma and grief. Through authentic interviews, expert discussions, and real-world experiences, we dive deep into the heart of human resilience. We explore crucial topics like trauma recovery, grief processing, stress management, and emotional well-being. This is Resilience Development in Action with Steve Bisson.

SPEAKER_01: 0:42

Well, hi everyone, and welcome to episode 224. Haven't listened to episode 223. Go back and listen to Aaron Sheridan, uh great colleague from Behind the Badge and Beyond. Great interview. So I hope you go back and listen. But episode 224 is with Jonathan Kemp. He's a mental health advocate, entrepreneur, and creator of smart wisdom, a scientifically validated note-taking technique. So I hope you go get checked that out. But he built his career in law enforcement and entrepreneurship and even went into studying, but was unaware of his bipolar disorder, depression, and dyslexia, and how it was shaping his life. We'll talk about neurodiversity, I'm pretty sure, too. His mental health illnesses were diagnosed at age 39 when he finally sought help. And Jonathan won the British Dyslexia Association Entrepreneur of the Year in 2011. So uh very interesting interview, I'm sure, and here it is.ai. You heard me talk about it. I'm gonna keep on talking about it because I love it. I've had about a year and a half, 18 months practice with it, and I still enjoy it. And it saves me time and it saves me energy. Free.ai takes your note, makes a trans what you're talking about, a client, just press record. And it does either transcript, it does a subjective, and an objective with a letter if needed for your client and for whoever might need it. So for$99 a month, it saves me so much time that it's worthwhile. And if you do it for a whole year, guess what? You get 10% off. More importantly, this is what you gotta offer, because you are my audience that listens to Resilience Development in Action. If you do listen to this and you want to use Free.ai, put in the code Steve50 in the promo code area, Steve50, and you will get$50 off in addition to everything we just talked about. Get free from writing your notes, get free from even writing your transcripts, use that to your advantage. Free.ai, a great service. Go to getfree.ai and you will get one of the best services that will save you time and money. And I highly encourage you to do so. Well, hi everyone, and welcome to episode 224. One of the things that I I'm always very honest with our audience is that I get a lot of solicitation from different people. And I got this from a uh from Jonathan Kemp, who is with us today. I found it fascinating for several levels because he talks about people in situations where they're not talking about their mental health, being a little more strong about it, even people in leadership. And I thought that, you know, as a former first responder himself, I thought it'd be perfect for this uh podcast. So, Jonathan, welcome to Resilience Development in Action.

SPEAKER_02: 3:35

Dave, thanks very much for having me. Uh greatly appreciated.

SPEAKER_01: 3:39

You know, we were having a great pre-interview conversation that uh I can't rebroadcast, unfortunately, for several reasons. And we'll get it, but no one else will. And if you want to know, just write to us. But you know, I got to know you a little bit. I obviously read all your stuff that you I received. Uh, very interesting stuff, but I'd like you to introduce yourself to the audience and they know a little bit more about you.

SPEAKER_02: 4:01

Yes, by all means. So I have a lot of experience with mental health issues and with neurodiversity. And what makes my story a little bit unusual, but possibly not from a first responder perspective, is that uh I didn't actually get professional medical help until I was in my late 30s. And it was only then that I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder and depression. And I wasn't diagnosed with neurodiversity issues, in particular dyslexia, until I was in my late 40s. So I had a lot of experience of trying to manage these situations on my own. And so I've got a lot of experience of doing that, and then a lot of experience following medical advice, sometimes more than others. And so I can sort of see both sides of the coin. And also that I think something that might resonate with first responders is that I was determined to fix myself on my own. I saw it as an insult to go and see a doctor. It was a weakness or a mission of defeat to go and see a psychiatrist or even worse, a therapist. And uh likewise with taking medication. So I sort of approached it through that prism. But I must admit, for the 12 years that I was a first responder and working in the London police, I had although I knew something was seriously wrong, I didn't know it was mental health issues at the time.

SPEAKER_01: 5:33

So you were in London, like what part of London?

SPEAKER_02: 5:37

Yeah, so I was uh I lived in London and I policed in central London, uh, two districts within central London. So I was a constable for five years and then a sergeant for seven. And during my time as a constable, you know, we would do day-to-day duties, which were both public order and both like dealing with sort of day-to-day disputes and criminal matters. And it was an interesting time. There were lots of big industrial disputes and uh lots of sort of big political events happening. So it was an interesting time to be in the police.

SPEAKER_01: 6:15

Well, it sounds like it was a very time, a good time to be anywhere. But one of the things that's difficult is when you're fighting your own mental health issues. And you know, it's not something that people like to talk about in the first responder world, or frankly, I find in the general population. We fight sometimes, and mental health is not something that I'm like, here's bipolar. You know, if I have a mole in my face, I'll see the mole in my face. But bipolar is not going to show up here in the middle of your front. I'm not, I'm just making it up here. You know, I always worry about how we can address that stuff. What's a common, you know, besides mental health, is there other common, like specific mental health or other issues that are invisible uh that we need to recognize earlier in order to work our lives and do our thing?

SPEAKER_02: 6:59

This is looking back with ref with and reflecting back on my time in the Met. And I now realize in some ways, the police and policing really helped me. Because when you have mental health issues, you know, as you quite rightly say, it isn't immediately visible. And that's whether it's bipolar disorder, addict um uh depression, addictions. The reason I pause on addictions is that I know certainly when I was at the police, when when the addiction becomes severe enough, you can't hide it. One would argue that it's the same thing for mental health, but yes, if you know what you're looking at, absolutely. So I know looking back now, you know, some of the incidents we were called out to were people either on the neurodiversity spectrum for something. And probably back then, you know, if somebody was autistic and was coming across unable to communicate effectively, et cetera, et cetera, there's no way we would have made the link between what we were seeing and a neurodiversity issue. We would have just seen we've got someone here, they're playing up, they're being awkward, you know, we've just got to deal with it. Whereas, you know, the reality was that somebody was behaving that way because they were autistic or had some other issue. So the reason I found, and this is really with the benefit of hindsight, I think being a first responder in some way saved my bacon for 12 years, was it's it's highly structured. You know, you've got to be at a set place at a set time, and what you need to do is, you know, very specific. And all of that structure and that responsibility and that focus, I found really helped. And you made an interesting point that, you know, if you know what you're looking for, you can recognize what's going on. So, particularly when I became a sergeant, you know, if constables were struggling or people were struggling with drink, I did notice it. And sometimes I'd share my experience. So I stopped taking drink and other substances when I was about 21. And the reason I did that was because I knew that dividing line for me between sanity and insanity was as fine as a piece of hair. And once I took, yeah, and once I took drink or, you know, took other substances, I had no control over whether I crossed that line. So I stopped when I was early 20s, and then I was in 12 step different 12-step fellowships for uh maybe 10, 15, even 20 years for 20 years.

SPEAKER_01: 9:39

Well, I, you know, there's so many questions that came up about these are more curiosity questions. The first thing I want to ask is how are shifts structured in uh the London police? Is it like eight-hour shifts and one in the morning, one in the afternoon, one in the evening, or is there a different way that they structure it in uh in London?

SPEAKER_02: 9:58

Yeah, so they it's changed over the years. So when I was in, um it was predominantly eight-hour shifts, and there was a morning shift started at six, afternoon to evening at 10. We would do eight hours and then go home. And you were continually shifting from like a day shift, early morning shift to an afternoon shift, and then we'd do like a week of nights, then we'd have days off after nights. But from a mental health spec perspective, although that gives you structure, it really plays on the sleep. And for me, for my mental health, probably sleep is number one in terms of managing. And what I would say, the more that one can, and this is a sort of general reflective uh thought, if one is a first responder, if one has a choice over whether to do rotating shifts continually changing or a consistent shift for a period of time, I would always recommend the consistent shift for a period of time because it allows your sleep to normalize.

SPEAKER_01: 11:01

Well, that's what uh that's what I want, you know. It's interesting that I think for the last three to four podcasts, and you're number four right now, who are saying the exact same thing, how important it is for sleep. And you know, I have conversations about sleep uh hygiene with most people in regards to that, and having that, you know, the morning shift, the the afternoon shift or the evening shift or the overnight shift, that they all have different names in America. They go first second and mids, some especially Massachusetts. I don't know if that's everywhere. Having that consistency no matter what is important. But I think that you, you know, it also brings up the alcohol problem. You know, I I'm always interested in knowing, you know, I grew up in Canada. Uh, most people know that I've been here for more years than I've been in Canada. And, you know, for the step work, there's always been a little bit of um, I don't know how to put it other than secret sometimes. You know, it's almost like a shame thing when I grew up in Canada. As I got here, maybe because I'm in the mental health field and I wasn't up there, maybe it's not. But I feel like more and more we've become a lot more aware of the 12-step programs or any type of programs that help you stay sober and it's a lot more open. One of the concerns that I hear all the time is well, I'm a police officer. I don't want to be sitting there with, you know, some guy probably uh, you know, arrested or whatever, two days before, two weeks before, two years before it doesn't really matter. What do you what do you kind of say to that, or what what's your uh your reaction to that? Because that's something that's come up many, many times in my work and my career, because the drink helps you sleep, which is great until it doesn't. And that's where I think that those things happen. And then they don't want to go to meetings because they don't want to be sitting with people they might have been arrested. So I know it's a very complex question, I just asked.

SPEAKER_02: 12:51

No, I think in terms of drink and taking other substances, I know, and it's partly generational, I think partly where you work, that there was a certain amount of what I call drinking culture. So if you didn't go out to drink after your shift or after your work, it sounds ridiculous to me now, but you wouldn't be trusted. And this was particularly the case if you wanted to go into work in plain clothes on crime squads or you wanted to go into the CID, which is our criminal investigation department, then there was a in certain uh offices, there was a very heavy drinking culture. And because I didn't drink, I I felt, and I wanted to be a CID officer, and it didn't turn out that way, but because I didn't drink, I felt that I was slightly on the outside. I mean, I still go to the pub and have soft drinks, but I think people thought it was a bit odd. In terms of people worrying, I think the first priority, if you if one thinks that drink is taking too much control, is to get help, whether it's a 12-step fellowship with seeing the doctor and looking for alternative ways, because the the 12-steps are really good. They've helped me enormously, but they aren't the only solution. There are other ways to do things. In terms of a fear of going into 12-step meetings, I completely get it because no one's going to be sitting in a 12-step meeting if they're, you know, a saint and everything is smelling of roses. You know, that's just not the reality. So the reality with drinking is all sorts of, you know, problems, you know, sometimes criminal offenses, sometimes prison sentences. And that goes, you know, par and parcel, whether it's narcotics anonymous, alcoholics anonymous, gamblers anonymous. But what I would say is there's two things. You don't have to say what profession you're in. You know, you could just say I'm a public servant. So for their all intents of purposes, you know, if you're in a room full of other 12-step members, all they know is that you are a public servant. You don't have to say what you actually do. And I would probably, in the first instance, I would recommend that. And then as you get to know people and you get to trust people, then you can start to say, oh, well, you know, this is what I do. And what I found is that when you share that, people respect it. And the other thing is that, you know, when you're sharing and talking about your experiences, you can talk about the experiences without actually alluding and opening up to the fact that you are a police officer. So you there are certain things you can generalize. And then the other thing which is really important is that in all meetings, they have this saying is what you see here, what you hear here, please let it stay here. And, you know, from my extensive experience of being in 12-step meetings, that is pretty much adhered to.

SPEAKER_01: 15:44

Ironically, that's also my experience too. Having, you know, one of the challenges that I find here particularly. And yes, I'm calling you out if you're listening to this, and I'm if you're upset about it, call me, talk to me, and I'm not hard to find. But there's this chronic uniqueness that comes up sometimes. Well, I'm different, I don't need the 12 steps, or I'm a police officer, I gotta handle it myself, or I'm a firefighter. We have to have our own groups, and yes, I'm calling everyone out. If you're upset, just call me out. How do we change that thought process? Because you know, I can't be the same as a person whose family has chronic alcoholic syndrome, which you know, we all know that typically that happens. How do we address that with people who may not who be might be resistant? Because we talk about some stigmas, you know, I think that's one of the stigmas that, well, I'm not one of them, which I hear unfortunately too frequently. How do we address that? How do we make sure that people get the help, whether it's mental health or substance abuse? I know I've kind of deviated a little bit to substance abuse now. I'd like to also include the mental health part because that's important. And if you get a chance while we're explaining the mental health part, I know what neurodiversity is, but sometimes people like hear that, and I've heard anything from oh, it's real to it's BS. And I want to be able to address both sides because I think it is real and I think it's something that we need to address.

SPEAKER_02: 17:10

Lots of interesting questions in that.

SPEAKER_01: 17:12

I know I I'm plenty of those. I just don't have any answers.

SPEAKER_02: 17:16

Okay, so to deal with the issue of uniqueness, I think what's interesting is that probably everyone will say that they're unique. And certainly when you go into a 12-step fellowship or you go and see a doctor or a therapist or psychiatrist, you're sitting there thinking, you know, I don't know if I can say this. I I I don't know if I can, I don't know if I can open up, I don't know. And what you're worried about is that you've done something that they that is terrible and they're going to judge you for. And what I realized was that we're first and foremost, we are all human. Secondly, our behavior and what we think and what we do is actually really common across all spectrums, all professions, all ages, different countries. So it is normal to feel unique, but the crucial thing is if you have an issue, whether it's you know, and whether it's a mental health issue. So mental health for me also includes addictions, it includes you know depression, it includes bipolar, it includes chronic stress and the other illnesses that are out there.

SPEAKER_01: 18:34

Right.

SPEAKER_02: 18:35

And the thing for me, which took me a long time to sort of understand, is it doesn't matter what profession you're in, it doesn't matter if you're a police officer or a fire person or a you know, a first aider or in the military, that really doesn't matter. The important thing is that we are human beings. We were a human being before we went in, and we're a human being when we're there. And human beings will have problems with their body. And just because of our culture, and I think it's historical, we're quite happy to go and get help for every part of our body other than our brain. And it makes now I look back, it makes no logical sense. You know, I had bleeding in one of my eyes and I went partially blind. And after I was a bit slow, but after about a week, I went to see my doctor and then I went to see specialists.

SPEAKER_01: 19:30

Well, you know, it goes with it goes with the healthcare system. But anyway, sorry for being political there for a second. Please continue.

SPEAKER_02: 19:36

Yeah, yeah, we're very lucky in that we have a free health care system here.

SPEAKER_01: 19:40

Yeah, but sometimes it's hard to get in. I know Canada is the same time, so some same problem sometimes. But anyway, the checkup from the neck up, you were talking.

SPEAKER_02: 19:47

And so for me, if you've got problems with the brain, it's not you're you're not weak, you're certainly not unique. If you can either go and get professional medical help in the first instance, just get an assessment in the same way that if you had a knee injury because you fell when you were chasing someone, or you fell when you were climbing up a ladder and the ladder slipped. If you had a chronic knee problem, you'd go and see a knee specialist, as much as you know your medical system will allow you to do. And it's the same with the brain. If there's it defies logic that there can be a problem with the rest of the body, and we're happy to go and see a professional, but when it comes to the brain, we have this sort of almost inbuilt default that, and particularly if you're in sort of like sort of what I call strong independent professions, that you should be able to figure it out yourself. And my God, I tried for 20 years, you know, I tried. I thought, I am gonna solve this myself. I'm gonna think this, this is how I'm gonna behave, this is how I'm gonna react. And I pretty much did that for 20 years. And it's a bit like trying to do the same for a I wouldn't dream of trying to think my knee better, you know, if it had a chronic injury. So I shouldn't, and now I realize that the faster and the quicker I can get professional help, whether it's mental health or neurodiversity, the better situation I'm in. And the interesting thing is, I think now in certain fields, so like in sports, it's a completely different ball game, whether it's Formula One or it's running or it's Olympics, they will have a team behind the people because they recognize the brain is just another part of the body, and you need to look after the brain and the body to be you know a successful Formula One driver or a successful athlete. And it is exactly the same for first responders.

SPEAKER_01: 21:48

I go to I can talk about F1 for a long time myself, big fan. And you know, I go back to Lewis Hamilton, and for those who don't know, very popular won the championship a few years ago. He's struggled the last few years, but they've he's been on a different team. His team hasn't been as supportive, just my two cents. Um, but I'm not gonna get into too much F1 here. Uh, but Lewis Hamilton was very open about his mental health struggles, especially when he was a young kid, and there was a lot of pressure on him and how that affected him and his team, like, and by the way, nothing against coaches, all four coaches, but I also know that you need a mental health professional in order to move forward, and he was very adamant about that. And um, you've got different guys who have brought that up in different sports, including football, American football, and regular football. And I think that any professional sports or individual sports, particularly in individual sports, I think you get in like you can't turn around and say my partner is gonna take over, one of the 10 other guys on the field are gonna take over. You turn around and there's no one there. So individual sports in particular, I find that the mental healt strain is pretty big and needs to be addressed. I think that the word you were looking for is high functioning individuals who think that I, you know, you you know, my one of my friends, and I know he stole it from someone else, says to me, You can't solve the same, you can't solve a problem that the same brain created. And you need sometimes an outsider perspective in order to address it. That's why I've had a therapist since 2000. I don't even know I've had a therapist forever. And even when I was young, uh therapist, I would always say, Well, I can handle it. I'm a therapist, I can handle it, I'm a therapist, I can handle it until I couldn't. And then I went and I see my therapist like a right now, it's about every four to six weeks. I'm doing okay so so far. That doesn't mean it won't change tomorrow. So if I need him every week, he's available. But I think it's having that mental health. I'm a high functioning person overall. Don't tell my girlfriend or my kids they don't believe it, but for the most part, most people believe that. Um, but I do need someone, and even the biggest athletes will tell you that they need that. How do we really address that stigma? Because people just get stuck on that stuff and saying, Well, I'm high functioning, I don't need someone. Well, that's ego talking usually, and I think there's other things to be addressed, but I would like to hear your point of view.

SPEAKER_02: 24:14

Yeah, so I was probably I probably described as high functioning myself. So again, I would make the comparison between high functioning. Do we expect if we're high functioning, let's say we get diabetes, is high functioning going to help us deal with diabetes? No. Good point. Is high functioning going to help us with a heart problem? It will probably actually aggravate it depending on how hard we work. Is high functioning going to you know help with our body fats, you know, whether good ones or bad ones? No. And actually, if one thinks about it, if one is high functioning, so we don't expect apply the same high functioning rules to our brain that we apply to the rest of our body. And basically, when a body is put under stress, or even a natural body, it will, it will, some bodies will find illnesses, not find illnesses, that's completely the wrong word. Some bodies will be ill for whatever reason, some bodies will become ill because of the circumstances they're in, and the brain is exactly the same, it's just another part of the body. And you made a really interesting point that athletes who are individuals need that sort of psychological mental help, it will be more than team athletes. And first responders, I would see as the same because quite often, as a first responder, you're the only person wherever you are. And so the responsibility on you to perform and perform at a high level is huge. So if it's acceptable for an athlete, individual athlete, to get this sort of psychological help, then for me, logic follows that first responders who are often on a scene on their own need the same type of help. And the other interesting thing, this word high functioning. So if you're high functioning, that means you're like so the athlete is using their body a lot and they need help to manage that. People who are high functioning are probably using their brain a lot. So if you use your body a lot and you we accept that it's going to have problems, it's exactly the same for the brain. If you do certain things to the brain, if and particularly if it's through your work, you know, where you've got no control, you can't just say, whoops, sorry, bit too much. I've got to go. You have to, you know, whether it's a traffic accident or it's, you know, it's a fight or it's a far fight, whatever it is, you have to deal with it. And as you're dealing with it as a high function person, you may be doing really well, but the brain is continually being impacted by whatever you're dealing with. And so what I would say, whether, you know, whatever, whatever it is, whether it's a mental health issue, and so for me, it was chronic depression and bipolar disorder type two. And in terms of neurodiversity, I have dyslexia, which means that I have problems reading things, I have problems with remembering, I have problems doing two things at once. So for me, like when I was in the police and we would, we would team up on night duty in what we call fast response cars, and you'd have the driver, you'd have an operator and somebody in plain clothes in the back. And I hated being the operator because I had to listen to the radio and then tell where the driver needed to go. And I was just hopeless at it. I couldn't remember any of the roads, even though I've been there for years. And I now realize that a lot of that was because when my brain processes information as a person, someone who has dyslexia, I'm if I'm trying to process two things at once, my brain just goes like a sort of fuzzy television. It just sort of crackles out.

SPEAKER_01: 28:10

Well, I think that I wrote it down because I thought it was a great point. High functioning people will use their brain. So therefore, they probably need to get it checked out. I like that. And I think that the whole fuzzy brain in when you're doing two things at once, and especially, you know, in a higher stress environment, this is not um, you know, coordinating the choir. It's a little more complex when you're working as a police officer, firefighter, first responder, EMT, paramedic, or what have you. Definitely plays a factor too. One of the things that I was also wondering, and I don't know if you've encountered this, but if you haven't, this, you know, certainly advice is always welcome. Sometimes people will see their colleagues struggle. They'll even tell me in therapy. Some of my clients will be like, oh, you know, one of my guys is having problems, or one of my friends is having problems at work. And they said, and they go, you know, how do I get them to therapy? I'm like, well, you tell them that they probably need therapy. And how do we change how we communicate that to anyone? Because I think it's something that is stigmatized too. It's not like you go around and tell people, you know, you need mental help. Help. I think that that's something that uh comes up a lot in America, particularly. And I think in general, I think it's one of those things, even in more accepting countries, for lack of a better word. There's still this uh go get some help has a huge stigma and kind of like uh, you know, who are you to tell me I need a mental health help?

SPEAKER_02: 29:38

Yeah, it's tricky. And I think it's also tricky in where you've got all male environments or predominantly male environments. And I think it's just a fact, you know, it's a feature of men and believing that, you know, they should be able to manage on their own and do everything on their own. The way around that will be. Through education, through training supervisors on what to do, what to look for, how to respond, what are the services available. So I would say, from my experience, how you help someone as a colleague, I think if you're a supervisor, it might be slightly easier. Certainly I found it easier when I was a sergeant supervising young constables. I found it easier to approach sort of sensitive subjects like that because I had a duty of care for them. So it didn't seem too strange that I would do that. But with colleagues, I would say it's the same as friends in the first instance, is you know, just see if they want to have a talk, if they want to have a talk in private. I don't think it'd be too remiss to say, you know, are you okay? Do you want to have a chat? And if you think it's going it will be accepted, you could say, God, you seem to have been a bit down or you seem to have been struggling recently. Would you like to have a chat? So I think that's one thing. And in the first instance, unless it's an emergency and you know, somebody's having a psychotic episode, or you know, I've been in instances where obviously this didn't happen and it's my imagination, but um I've been in instances where you know the driver of the police car or the police van is drunk, or the detective can hardly stand on their feet. You know, what do you do? And in those sort of instances, it's like it's you have to take immediate action. Whether you report it, I don't think there's a hard and fast rule. Well, the rule is you report it. What you do in reality, I think there is certain flexibility depending on what the situation is. Yeah, so I would say with colleagues, it's as a supervisor, it's easy because you have that duty of care. And also within the people you supervise, you have that ability to define what is acceptable and not acceptable. And it may be different in other teams, other units, but you have a certain amount of freedom and authority to define what can be done. With colleagues and friends, I I would say in the first instance is just asking it, just simply either asking, can I be of any help or asking, would you like to have a chat would be the first thing, unless it's an emergency, in which case I might isolate someone, you know, if they've been drinking or if they're having a psychotic episode. I mean, the first thing I would do would be to isolate them and then take it from there.

SPEAKER_01: 32:44

You know, I I gotta say, Jonathan, that um one of the favorite things that you said there is that as a leader, you saw these things and you did something. One of my messages that you will hear throughout my podcast, and anyone who knows me, that you know, having stripes and badges that are, you know, whatever you want to call them, leadership. And you got to get it, take a leadership on everything, including health, mental health, substance use, everything else. I think that that's one of the things. Let's add another layer. I don't think you need to be a leader with stripes or whatever they call them. I don't know if it's the same down in um in the UK in particular, but here it's stripes. I tell them you don't need stripes in order to be a leader. You go talk to someone. Hey, are you okay? Come and talk to them. Like you said, I like the ideas that you gave, but more importantly, making sure that you don't need to be a leader at anything to be a support for people struggling, particularly if you're struggling with like you talk bipolar two disorder. And for those of you who don't know, that's more of a depressed type than it is the manic type. And DSM might kick my butt for not for describing it that simply, but it's really that simple in some ways. I think that that's the stuff that I really talk about with my my colleagues too, is that I don't need to be a leader in order to support people. And um, hopefully we can work on that stigma overall. But you know, one of the things that I really was interested in too is that I know you're an author. I am an author too, so I respect that significantly. And I see it behind you, finding peace of mind. Would love to hear more about your book because I think that some of our audience would really benefit from having some of that, those readings and having your book. So please tell a little more about our your book. Yeah, by all means.

SPEAKER_02: 34:32

So I I realized during COVID. Well, the first thing is during COVID, I thought that would be really easy because I know what shit feels like, and um it was an absolute nightmare. I had three by three or four bipolar highs and crashes, and by the end of it, I was at my wit's end. But the positive side of that was I went to get proper medical help again, changed my medications, and then after that, it was like a miracle. It wasn't an effort to think, to breathe, to enjoy the sunshine. It was a complete miracle. And during that stage, I decided that actually one of the sort of greatest, one of the greatest, if not the greatest wealth I have is my knowledge and experience about mental health and neurodiversity. And so I thought if I could capture that in a book, hence finding peace of mind, I could then share that with others. And that idea of being able to take something that's had a huge negative impact and use it to you know help or empower or inspire others really appealed. So I wrote the book and it covers sort of three distinct areas. One is my memoir where I talk about my various experiences. I was also a cowboy in Australia for a year. So it was amazing. It was probably the, if not one of the best, the best year of my life. It was incredible. So the first section is my memoir. The second section is my analysis of what helps. So because I'm high functioning, I'm highly analytical, I've been constantly reviewing, you know, what works, what doesn't work, what could I tweak, what could I develop. And I thought that's another area I can bring huge value is the fact that I'm highly analytical. So I put in a section of the book, it's been 120 pages, of things that work. So, for example, I cover 12 questions that I had that stopped me from getting help. So the number one was it's simple, you know, seeing a therapist is a weakness, it's a mission of defeat. So I put what I used to think and what I think now, which is the is the most sensible thing to do if you have a mental illness. And then I also put in what I call 14 foundations. So these are like foundation blocks, and everybody will have different ones, but these are my foundation blocks that I try and maintain to to keep good mental health. And funnily enough, number one is sleep. Without sleep, I'm, you know, I'm I'm struggling straight away. And so that is that is the book. It goes live on the 10th of October this year, which is World Mental Health Day. And what I've decided to do for the first, because I'm promoting it, I never feel quite comfortable with the idea of sort of self-promotion to the idea of financial gain. I know in some situations it's perfectly normal and acceptable. And I think for something like this, it just doesn't quite sit comfortably with me. So what I've decided to do is for the first year from publication, all profits will go to four mental health charities. And what I've decided to do in terms of getting the book out there, because there's one thing, you know, writing it, another thing, publishing it, another completely different ball game is getting it out there. I've decided to do a seven-month walk and talk. So I'll start in the Shetland Islands in the north of Scotland. I'm going to walk all the way through Scotland, England, up through Wales, across to Ireland, and down the length of Ireland. And it'll be seven months on the road. And during this time, I will do talks. I will do in-person interviews, random interviews. And again, for the whole of that seven months, I'll be raising money for these for mental health charities.

SPEAKER_01: 38:20

Wow. Well, you know, I think that is there a way for us to follow you anywhere on the internet from while you're doing that walk?

SPEAKER_02: 38:27

Yes. So I'm setting everything up at the moment. And funny enough, I'm hoping to persuade or encourage some of my colleagues that I used to be in the Met Police with to um actually help me in terms of support. So these are people I've known for 40 years, and they're still friends. Wow. Yeah, I have some really, really good friends from the Met Police, and uh yeah, I treasure those friendships. So at the moment, it should go live, hopefully, in about a week or so. Um, is my website, jonathankemp.com. And from there you will see the walk and the social media channels. And the reason I'm some people say, are you sure you want to start on the 1st of January? So I'll be starting on the 1st of January in the northernmost island above Scotland. And the reason I'm doing that is because the weather will, I'm, I think safe to say, will be appalling. But that reflects mental health. You know, sometimes it is really, really tough. And all we can do, you know, even when we're on duty, is literally put one foot in front of the other. And so that's the reason of starting then.

SPEAKER_01: 39:40

And you're gonna walk all the way down to London, or are you gonna go even deeper into like almost to what sorry, I'm gonna plug Boston on the uh what would be the uh east side of England.

SPEAKER_02: 39:54

Yeah, so I'm gonna go down to London and then I want to try and limit it to seven months because I could see it could just go on at infinitum. So depending on how I'm doing time-wise, I want to then go down to the south coast of England, walk along, then walk up to South Wales. Yep, which is on the left-hand side of England. Yes, left side, left-hand side of England. Um, I want to go from South Wales to North Wales, then cross over the Irish Sea and go from Northern Ireland all the way down to the Southern Ireland, the tip of to not quite the tip of Southern Ireland, but very far down.

SPEAKER_01: 40:32

Well, I'm taking a trip down to Ireland in uh April next year in 2026. So if you are there, I would love to meet you on your walk. Uh, and if you're not, well, I'll be close. Uh, and I will definitely be encouraging you because you know it it it is a great, I love the visual of how mental health starts, you know, cloudy, starts very stormy at times, and how it gets progressively better, just like the seasons do. So uh would love to be there too. And then for the book, this you know, this podcast will be out in October, beginning of October. So it'll be only a couple of days afterwards. So I will encourage people to go and buy it. Where can we uh buy the book online? Because most of my audience will be out here in North America, so just wanted to see where we can buy it online.

SPEAKER_02: 41:22

Yeah, so all being well, it should be on US Amazon at that time and also Barnes and Noble as well, and it should be orderable. Orderable orderable, that's the word. So as the French Canadian guy, but anyway, go ahead. Yeah, it should be exactly that um from most bookshops. But if anybody has any problem, if they contact me through my website, jonathankemp.com, then I'll help them out.

SPEAKER_01: 41:52

Well, I'm gonna be happy to put all that in the show notes. We'll be looking forward to reading your book when it comes out. And as you set it up, I'm sure that by then we're gonna be able to follow you. And if you are in Ireland, would love to see you. Um I love well uh I've only been to Wales once and I really found it very quite lovely. Although I've got to be honest, my favorite part, as I've said to many people in England, was the Lake District area, uh, which I thought was fantastic. But of course, not everyone enjoys that. So Jonathan, I really appreciate your time. I hope uh people go buy your book, go to your website, follow your walk starting in January 2026. And thank you again. Really appreciate this talk.

SPEAKER_02: 42:39

Thank you very much for having me. It's been uh yeah, it's been a really interesting talk. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01: 42:44

And uh for those of you joining me, uh, can't wait for episode 225. Hope you join me then.

SPEAKER_00: 42:52

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