Resilience Development in Action

E. 226 First Responder Burnout: See, Notice, and Stop Strategies

• Steve Bisson, Renae Mansfield • Season 12 • Episode 226

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In this continued collaboration with Milford TV, we explore how burnout rarely makes a scene—it slips in as irritability, isolation, and the quiet urge to shut out the world. This episode is the conclusion of episode 225 and we open the door on how those whispers grow louder inside the fire service and EMS, why “just call this number” isn’t care, and what it really takes to protect crews before a bad day becomes a disaster. Our guest, Renea Mansfield, shares honest, lived experience—from losing interest in the kitchen table banter to wrestling with passive suicidal thoughts in the height of COVID—and we walk through the small, specific signals leaders and peers need to catch early.

From there, we shift into solutions that actually fit the job. We break down the Frontline Resilience Protocol, a three-pillar framework designed for police and fire: tactical performance tailored to real-world demands, culturally competent mental health support with warm handoffs and follow-up, and leadership development that turns communication into a daily practice. Think job-specific strength and mobility, nervous system regulation you can use in the rig or the hallway, and nutrition choices that work at 2 a.m. Equally important, we get into the human factors—dark humor, stigma, and how trust is built or broken when a captain shrugs off a plea for help.

The throughline is simple: follow-up saves lives. When someone finally says “I’m not okay,” the next step must be personal, fast, and predictable. Leaders need scripts and skills, peers need permission to check back in, and departments benefit from trained outsiders who know the culture and aren’t tangled in station politics. If you’re a chief, union rep, or frontline responder, you’ll walk away with practical steps to spot burnout early, respond with care, and build a system that doesn’t quit when the shift ends.

Her website is waywardwellnesscoaching.org 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/waywardwellnesscoaching/ 

Facebook:  https://www.facebook.com/people/Wayward-Wellness-Coaching/61566792351111/  

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/wayward_wellness_coaching/



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SPEAKER_00:

Welcome to Resilience Development and Action, where strength means strategy and courage to help you move forward. Each week, your host is Dave Basel, a therapist with over two decades of experience in the first responder community, brings you powerful conversations about resilience, growth, and healing through trauma and grief. Through authentic interviews, expert discussions, and real-world experiences, we dive deep into the heart of human resilience. We explore crucial topics like trauma recovery, grief processing, stress management, and emotional well-being. This is Resilience Development in Action with Steve Bisson.

SPEAKER_03:

You know, you've heard me talk about this before. Getfree.ai. Great for your note-taking, good for your transcript, good for your goals, good for everything that you do on a HIPAA-compliant nature. And if you use code Steve50 at checkout, you will get$50 off your first month. And also if you get a whole year, you will also get 10% off the whole year. But getfree.ai has freed me to do more things with my life, including work on other passions. So get free to do your notes, get freed from doing your goals. Getfree.ai with code Steve50 to get$50 off your first month. Hi, and welcome to episode 226. If you haven't listened to episode 225, is with the famous Renee Mansfield, who's still sitting next to me, and we're going to continue our conversation because we were we left off a little bit on the mentorship and the leadership and impressible e-board. But I think that we have a different conversation to really have about how that happens. And because of the lack of experience, I think that we don't see the signs of burnout because we don't see these little things. And I know that part I know it's a little bit of a shift from our last conversation. We talked a lot about leadership. Can you tell me more about like the signs of burnout that people may not see particularly in the fire service? And now, again, for those of you who don't know, a lot more medical calls, which you know can affect you in different ways, not just trauma, but in other ways.

SPEAKER_01:

Right. I think that the signs of burnout are very um, they're not like a neon sign, right? They don't scream, I'm burnt out, I'm really overwhelmed.

SPEAKER_03:

It would make my job a lot easier if that was the case.

SPEAKER_01:

I think it would make all of our jobs easier, right? No, they're very subtle. And um, I the one thing in especially with my one-to-ones that I like to talk about is that it screams before or our bodies whisper before they scream, right? And um trying to tune in before it starts to scream and become overwhelming. And um, so some of particularly for me, I can talk about my own experience first, is hindsight's 2020. I realized that the biggest signs for me is that at the firehouse I was much more social prior to my burnout. I loved hanging out with the guys, I really enjoyed training. Um, I really didn't even mind the calls. In fact, it makes the day go by really fast, um, even when you're busy. And uh when I started to feel that burnout, I started to get more irritable. I started to get more pissed off about those calls, especially the nana calls, the annoying elderly care calls, the ones that the nursing homes just didn't want to take care of them. So you just had to go do the, you know, routine blood work calls because they didn't have Brewster to come and bring them to their appointments. So, like those just started to get really frustrating.

SPEAKER_03:

What do we call them now? We can't call them frequent flyers anymore. I heard that's not PC anymore. Oh, I don't is there a new Oh I someone told me I can't remember because I don't care about PC as you know. Uh but they told me we can't call them frequent flyers, but I'm gonna call it frequent flyers. Anyone who's offended or can write again, uh, that's invited. But please go ahead. I sorry to interrupt, but that's to me what I call the frequent flyers. We had those on the crisis.

SPEAKER_01:

I'm interested to see if anyone has the new PC call.

SPEAKER_03:

I I'll I'll talk to a therapist, I'm sure they know all the right roars. Um anyway, please go on. I'm sorry to interrupt.

SPEAKER_01:

But yeah, and so then I started to realize mostly too I was isolating myself. So um we had our own dorm rooms, so I felt myself withdrawing from the group. So when we were at the station, I was just finding myself going back to my bed. So I just was hanging out in my bedroom more often. I don't like being on my phone a lot. I found out I was just more on my phone more often and um playing dumb games, which I don't ever do. So I was mindlessly doing things that I was making sure that my mind just wasn't engaged in whatever was going on. Um so it was just those small little acts that were disengaging, removing myself from things, and um and it really was just removing myself, being disinterested in things that I didn't want to be interested in anymore. And um and then the alcohol, like I was drinking more often. I was sneaking it a little bit more. I was never a home drinker, so that was one thing that when I noticed that I wanted to drink more at home, I started to get more concerned because I'm like, this is weird for me. Um, and then also just like the whole irritability thing. I was just pissed off all the fucking time. Like I'm not-cause when we met, I thought you were always like that. And then like it just slowly started creeping into like I was just screaming in my car. Like I just couldn't handle it anymore. And then it got to the point where like I was passively suicidal to the point where I wanted to just get into a car accident and die. I wanted the car accident to be so bad that I would just, you know, it got actually to the point where I hoped that I was forced to do because we were at the time, it was during COVID, like the height of COVID. And um we were uh expected to do these re absolutely ridiculous protocols. Like it was obscene. Like of we're sleeping in like the same rooms together, in the same trucks together, yet we're expected to like do these ridiculous like social distancings. Like, of course, we're always gonna be together. Like, it's like telling yourself to social distance from your mother when you're living with them, you know, like it was just obscene the things that we were expected to do, which just added to the stress that we were already under, and um and then we were forced on top of that, and then we were forced to like if we had a cough, we had to like stay in a hotel, but it's like I live alone, and it's like, what am I doing? Like, what is going on? These are obscene protocols, and you know, so everything stressed on top of that, and then forced on top of that over hours, and um, it got to the point where I was like, I just want to be forced to work so many hours where I'm so tired, I get into a car accident, and then they have to look at what they're forcing us to do and change it. Like, that's the point of my burnout is like I want it to become like a reason why they have to check into these things. And um, and that's actually the point I think where I met you because I actually reached out to I think it was called next rung. Um it was like the texting thing because it got to the point where I was like, I don't know what to do, like I want to die, and I don't know who to text, I don't know what to say, and um really the thing that kept me from not doing anything drastic was like knowing that my dog would be super sad. Like you do love that dog, that's true. I mean, obviously, there's more people that I know love me. That sounds ridiculous. But when in the moment your brain is just irrational.

SPEAKER_03:

But I'm gonna stop you for a second. I think that's important for people to hear is that yeah, your dog might keep you alive and you know that there's other people, but when you're getting to that point of burnout, you just feel like a body. You don't feel like a person, so you're not thinking about other people that may love you.

SPEAKER_01:

You're irrational.

SPEAKER_03:

And I think that that's why, like, while you said there's other people, let's not forget the fact that if anyone's having these symptoms, we got to recognize that it occurs. So I'm sorry to interrupt again, but I think it's important because yeah, sometimes, yeah, okay, your dog kept you alive, that's great. And yeah, there's other people, but in your mind, the dog's more important than people, and that's also a sign of burnout because when you know, I love I look, I met your dog, it's a great dog. You know, I love my cats, the great cats. But if your life is based on that, it really shows where your burnout is at. And I think that that's why it's worth mentioning that too. And I didn't want to like fly over it without mentioning that because that is another sign of burnout for me. And like, oh, my goldfish would never get fed. Like, if that's your first thought, I mean you gotta have other people. There's other people who love you, you know. So I think that's important to mention that because passive suicidality, when you start thinking that way, gets quickly to active suicidality. And we've lost too many people in the service um in the last couple of like probably since the pandemic, particularly, and um I don't want that to happen, so I want to make sure I mention that.

SPEAKER_01:

Right, because once you're to that point of irrationality, like is that even a word?

SPEAKER_03:

Once you're we just made it up, it's fine.

SPEAKER_01:

Once you're that irrational, really anything is possible, right? And which leads to the fact that other people need to be seeing those signs, which is bananas to me that no one in the fire service, the fire station, the department I was working on, they not only didn't see those signs, they exacerbated it because had they even saw remotely that I was withdrawing as much as I was, things could have been so much different. And in fact, I not only reached out to someone, they turned me to someone else that they knew I didn't have a good relationship with, who then did not help me, and then it pushed me into a further, like worsened state. So, like everything just made it worse in that department. And I say this not to say that I'm glad I went through it, but I am kind of glad I went through it because I know that I'm strong enough to have gotten through it so that I can come through the other side and help people. But at the same time, leaders need to be able to recognize these signs and know that, first of all, it took immense courage for me to go out to this captain and be like, I'm having passive suicidal thoughts and I need some help. I want to reach out to um at this, I think it's is it um on-site?

SPEAKER_03:

On site, yep.

SPEAKER_01:

I was like, I know that you have experience with on-site, how can I reach out to them? And for that person to be like, Yeah, why don't you contact this person um who he knows I didn't have a good relationship with, and then never follow up with me when I just said I'm passively suicidal, like that blows my mind that like that person just brushed me off.

SPEAKER_03:

And yet sometimes it doesn't blow my mind because it's exactly how it fucking goes. So I try not to swear.

SPEAKER_01:

But right, exactly, and it's just crazy. And then after that, rumors started, I was called the bitch, like it was just like everything just went downhill from there. And for someone to have known that's at a higher rank, and in that department, the next rank is deputy-in-chief. So, Captain, one of four of them, knew that I was passively suicidal, and then knew that I wanted to remove myself from the union because the next union president I didn't agree with. Like he knew that there was a lot of things going on and knew all these rumors, like it was it's just bonkers to me that someone who himself has actually dealt with certain things, like it um we just need to do better, like in the fire service, in the first responder realm, in the police. And so for leaders to recognize these signs and to do something about it, we can't just continue to say, here's our EAP, go look at it.

SPEAKER_03:

I mean, there's so many things I want to say. Other signs of burnout, you get to pass a suicide alley, you called you. I think I wrote it down because I thought it was funny you said dumb games. Is there really smart games on your phone? Anyway, just my two cents there. I I see a lot of people go into the gambling, and again, no offense to table tennis in Korea, but if you're like gambling on that, there's you got a serious problem, and that's usually a sign of burnout, in my opinion. Um, you talk about having problems sleeping or being overactive in order to feel better. There's a lot of those things, and then think about your dog versus other loved ones. I mean, again, nothing against your dog, just saying there's a lot of stuff. I want to really kind of like I don't know what to wrap up a little bit about the burnout so that people can look for those signs and then bring the other point that you talked about. You may have an EAP, you may have a SISM, uh, crisis intervention stress management, or there's what's crisis intervention stress response. I can't remember. Yeah, but there's there's like a bunch of names for them. And then there's peer support. And what I think that we're really gonna get to a little bit more is I think that me and you have the same goal, and we need to talk about this off-air. But I think that we need to have outsiders, and what I mean by outsiders are people who are trained, culturally competent, understand the stress, and have these wellness visits, have these trainings to support the officers because we're not putting down schisms, we're not putting down peer support. But when your captain knows that you have a bad relationship with Johnny Doe, and they said, Go see Johnny Doe, then why wouldn't we have a wellness visit? Why wouldn't we have outsiders who are culturally competent being able to reach out to Renee, reach out to whoever in order to do that? But um, I really want to talk more about these services because I think that's where we're gonna get to by the end of this uh um episode, because I think that it's important for you to look at it that way. So um tell me more about like here's here's a phone number. This is the other one, too, that I love. Here's a phone number. Wow, that's supportive. Thank you so much. I can't I feel the love. And when you're like passively suicidal, that's not exactly like the most love you're gonna get if someone's handing you a card and you go, here's a card, good luck.

SPEAKER_01:

Right.

SPEAKER_03:

So anyway, want to talk a little more about that because I think it's the system that we're looking for to talk about, right?

SPEAKER_01:

Right, because the biggest thing is there's no follow-up in that, right?

SPEAKER_03:

Nope.

SPEAKER_01:

And as we know, the hardest thing for us to do, the hardest thing for really anyone to do, regardless of what field you're in, is to ask for help. It's very rare that anyone wants to ask for help, especially when it comes to anything mental health related. So when someone does do that, especially in this field, we need to start taking it seriously and not just being like, oh, contact this person. Because that's one step they're not gonna do. They already did that step. So to take it a step further, that leader could be like, let me get you in contact with that person, right?

SPEAKER_03:

Or shame. Let's not talk, let's not forget about shame. Here's a phone number, like I opened up to you, can you help me? That's not helping me, that's just kicking the can down the street.

SPEAKER_01:

Right. And the biggest thing too is we can't have leaders that are throwing these, you know, flyers out, EAPs out, programs out, if they're not even comfortable having these hard conversations themselves. So if they're not mimicking or modeling these behaviors or vulnerabilities or these discussions, then how can we expect the crews to be able to do that as well? So, and I think the biggest thing too, um, at least when I was developing my program, and then now that I'm actually implementing it into these departments and talking about it with chiefs, is that they really appreciate that there's follow-up. Because one thing we don't have is follow-up. Right. So, even like there's a lot of programs that are out there that they come in, they'll do it an eight-hour session or a one full-day session, right? They'll come in, they'll introduce their wellness program. This is what we have. Take this app, you know. But there was just a study that shows that you can have the best app in the world, but after two weeks, 90% of these people that are using the app, they're not going to use the app anymore. Because there's no follow-up. There's nothing that tells them that this is what they can continue to use, or someone that, you know, helps them along the way. So the best thing that you need to do is if you do go and you know, say, go to your captain, say that this is what's going on, and they can come up to them, be like, hey, a couple months later, or even a month later, a week later, be like, hey, we had this discussion. Um, how are you feeling? Did you contact that person or what's going on with it? You know, do you have some sort of plan? Or, you know, we need to have this follow-up because we know how easy it is to go by the wayside. And that's what happens is that you don't have follow-up, and then you know, a month later that person commits suicide. So that's the biggest issue.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, I think that's what you just said. I I think I want to add to that. But it takes immense courage anywhere for someone to say, I'm passively suicidal, I'm not feeling good, whatever mental health wise. I think that it's even more of a uh statement in the first responder, or as one of my other former guests call it, emergency responders have to do because that's exposing. And that's very hard to expose yourself as in you know, I'm having these thoughts, or I'm depressed, or I'm burnt out, or whatever. And then, like we talk about when you've once you ask to help and you're being told, here's a card, go home, or here's an app, enjoy it. There's no follow-through. And I think that there's a less personable, and what you just said, there's nothing more personal. Like when people tell me they're suicidal, I don't come out, I'm not angry. I'm actually like grateful. I mean, oh my god, you trust me. I thank you. Maybe it's 15 years of crisis work that does that. I don't know. But to me, that's so personal when people share with that, and I don't make them feel bad and I want to help them, and then I'll text them during the week. And yes, licensing board join me in uh writing me that I can't text my clients, I don't care. But I text them, hey, how's this week been? How are like, and this happens a lot with my first responders in particular, because I know they're not telling anyone else unless they're going to on-site or they're going or going to uh the IFF Center of Excellence or what have you. So I think that it's important to also have that follow-through. But I want to mention, like, you know it's hard to ask for help. If you're a leader and you've been in this field for any amount of time, you should know that that was difficult for them. And your follow-through is here's a card, here's an app, here's an EAP. Come on. Right. Seriously, you should know better. And that's why you come in and you come up with great ideas. I know we've talked about it, but we haven't talked too much about it here. I know you're working on a couple of things. I'd like to hear more because you're going out to all these trainings all over the country, and I'm getting texts from you. I'm like, oh, do you know about tapping? Do you know about EMDR 2.0? Do you know about you gotta tell me about all these things, which I absolutely adore and love, but I would like you to talk more about what you want to implement, what you want to do.

SPEAKER_01:

Right. So the overall program is called the Frontline Resilience Protocol, and um, it's really like a three-pillar program for police and fire departments, where it's more of like um, I kind of describe it more like the bar rescue, right? We go in and kind of figure out what's going on and uh tailor it to each department. But really at the end of the day, the three core pillars are you know, we have the tactical performance, which really narrows down the strength and um strength and mobility and you know the nervous system regulation. So we kind of figured out so I work with a strength and conditioning coach, I'm also a personal trainer as well, and then we figured out the injury prevention because we know that physical and mental go hand in hand. So a lot of the times, you know, firefighters and police and EMS, we do kind of let ourselves go a little bit during the stressful times.

SPEAKER_02:

And uh it's very important to have the PAT, but then after that you let it all go because you guys work so hard on the PAT. I get it.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, there's so many times where you know, I you can see photos of guys that I worked with, and I'm like, all right, you know, once you're in, you're in, you know.

SPEAKER_02:

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01:

But at the same time, you know, you still have to maintain your physical abilities, and it's not even just because your job depends on it, your life literally depends on it, you know, like because you have to be able to maintain your heart stability and you have to be able to just be strong and you know be able to function. Um, and but the problem is, you know, the functional behaviors that we have to be able to do and maneuver is a lot different than the crossfit that you have to be able to do at the gym. You know, we have to be able to carry 75 pounds on our back while we're, you know, cardiovascular strength and pulling hoses and compromising positions and you, you know, police while they're jumping over fences, and we just are doing different positions and maneuvers that will put us into different um injury prone areas.

SPEAKER_03:

So never mind the driving. I mentioned that because as much as people are driving, have you ever driven a fire truck? If you haven't, I don't want to hear from you. I haven't, by the way, no no no claims on my part. But the point is, is like that's also can be physically demanding if you're hitting like you know, I've got guys in urban areas that are very tight and very difficult to get through. And even driving an ambulance, which we're in Milford, driving the ambulance down Main Street here. I can imagine can be quite an accomplishment at uh at peak hours, is the way I would put it. But I I want to mention that too, because people are like, oh well, I wasn't physically tiring, but it's mentally draining and can cause physically to be a little more vulnerable.

SPEAKER_01:

But yeah, absolutely. But even just getting in and out of the the vehicles, you know, like there's been guys that bust a knee just getting in and out of the engine, you know.

SPEAKER_03:

I know a guy who did his ankle that way.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, we focus a little a lot on that, it's a key component. But um, and then the nervous system regulation, so that's one thing that I find is really important. So learning breathing techniques, and I know that we hate meditation and stuff of that nature, but at the same time, it's very important. So learning how to re-regulate our nervous system, which you can actually control with your breathing. Uh, I know that even like snipers or we learned in the academy the box breathing, so you can reset your blood pressure, reset your uh heart rate by just like learning how to breathe in for four, hold for four, breathe out for four, hold for four. So um different ways you can do that even before you have a conversation, reshifting your posture. So that's something that you can do before having a conversation with, say, a reactive narcissistic chief. You know, like that's something that you can do before you have experience with that. That's something that you can do, but that can actually change the trajectory of how you respond or react to before you have that conversation. Um, all of these things, and then obviously figuring out what you're gonna eat, you know, from a gas station that you can have that's different than having like bags of chips and shit that's gonna fuel you rather than you know make your body feel like shit. So that's one aspect. Um, and then obviously there's um the mental health aspect, which we talked about, like the peer support. If there's not anything in place, we do work with the individuals to create something in place. So that's something that you know we are gonna be talking about in the future. But there's something that's incredibly beneficial to working with therapists that work with first responders.

SPEAKER_03:

Culturally competent. I say this almost every episode, but it's so important. Therapists are well intended. I'm not trying to put them down. But if you don't know nothing about the first responder world, don't pretend you do.

SPEAKER_02:

Right.

SPEAKER_03:

And that's not a knock on anyone, it's just the truth because then you lose the trust and the first responder doesn't want to go back, and then they like fuck this shit. And that's you know, the the whole fuckets is a very big part of the culture, also.

SPEAKER_01:

Right. And just not to scare them away. Like I've heard stories about how you know therapists just get a little scared or just a little judgmental of our, you know, bl dark humor when in reality it's just we're it's really not a cover-up. We just do have that type of humor, you know, like it's not being weird.

SPEAKER_03:

You know, it's a cover-up if you do it five or six times during an hour session. If it's only a couple of times, like it's just part of the humor, and that's a survival skill. And if you've never been through that, and I'm not talking about only first responders, working on a crisis team, even though it's like what I call second responders by the ER or even in the community. Um, I have a lot of dark humor, believe me. And for those of you who don't know, ask Renee, I've shared a few of my jokes. Uh, but it's so important to survive some of the hard stuff that we see, but people don't understand that. And if you don't have that cultural competency, whether it's a therapist, a program like you're talking about with the physical health, the mental health, I think that it's key. To me, it's like, okay, you don't have that training, that's fine, it's okay, there's nothing wrong with that. But be truthful because when people ask me, like, I don't know all of everything about fire, I don't know what happened. I had a client this morning who's a firefighter who mentioned something I've never heard of. And I'm like, what do you mean by that? Well, I have enough competency, but I don't work in that field. He felt very comfortable explaining to me. If I say, what's going on a run? Then maybe perhaps this isn't for you. So just for a second. Go ahead. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, no, absolutely. And so then um last and foremost, which I feel like is the most important, is the leadership development. So that is where it's the follow-up with the leadership. So it's quarterly follow-ups where we meet with the leadership team, um, whomever the chief would obviously deem would be the leaders, will be the lieutenants, the captains, battalion chiefs, whomever they would be. But we check in with them quarterly to make sure that whatever we have implemented is actually working and that they're actually checking in with their own crews. Because, like I said in the beginning, that is the most important thing is the follow-up. So are they utilizing the mental health resources? Are they utilizing, you know, the performance and the you know, nervous system regulation, or are they notifying themselves when they have burnout symptoms? Or are the leaders themselves noticing any type of burnout with their crews? Or the biggest thing is to teach them communication. So one thing that I actually you chuckle and we're you chuckle because you know why. Right. We both know that that is the biggest driving force, right? Just teaching them how to communicate, having a relationship. So I actually went through a lot of Jocko Willink's uh EO Academy different teachings that he does, and he is a driving force for relationships. So really just going around and having a real you don't have to be best friends with everyone that you work with, but you do have to have a relationship with those that you have a crew with. So just seeing how everyone's doing, you know, knowing if they have kids, knowing how their kids are, knowing how they're doing at home. You know, some things might be happening, it might not even be work-related, their burnout might be related to the fact they can't afford the truck that they just bought because they're making more money, they think they can spend more money, but in reality they can't, you know, like they wouldn't.

SPEAKER_03:

Let's keep the cops out of this, but please go ahead.

SPEAKER_01:

But yeah, it's just like asking them how they're doing. That could be the most powerful thing. And at the end of the day, we need to have tough conversations. And if that is what you think irreparable, you need to say that. Like we need to be okay. And I know that we've had this discussion. You need to be okay having if you have a union and a chief that cannot communicate with each other, they need to sit down together and be like, How do we repair this?

unknown:

Right.

SPEAKER_01:

It's very damaged, and we need to be able to work together. You need to be able to say those words. That's communication, and the only way you can repair that is if you have a third party come in and say, This is how you speak to each other. We have to act like like, do we have to act like children? You know, like we just have to be able to communicate, and if you can't put your ego aside, then you're never going to fix anything. And if you want to have culture change, you have to be able to do that. But if you aren't willing to do that, you have to step aside and let someone do that.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, I would love for people to reach out to you, obviously, me and you're gonna have a private conversation outside of here, but how do people reach you for these things? Because I think it's so important, you're absolutely right. There I have another half hour of questions, but we need to wrap up here. So, how do people reach Renee and go see what you're doing in general?

SPEAKER_01:

Right. So you can look me up. My business is Wayward Wellness Coaching. Okay. Um I'm on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram. I also have a website, waywardwellnesscoaching.org.

SPEAKER_03:

Okay. Um I'll put that in the show notes so that'll be easy for people to click on.

SPEAKER_01:

Right. And then just at Gmail. So all of that at Gmail if you want to get my email. Um but all of that is easily accessible, LinkedIn, all the social media's website.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, more importantly, you forgot to mention one thing. We had a whole hour, you didn't mention a band.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes.

SPEAKER_03:

And if you want, Renee is amazing at her with her, she plays with her boyfriend. And it's an amazing show that I've missed many times, and I know I don't want to hear it. But can you how do people see you play? Where do they go and check this out? I mean, it'll be October, so it'll be a lot of indoor venues by then.

SPEAKER_01:

Right. Well, if you want to see live music, we have a little band called the Renee and Band, R-E-N-E, A-N-N band. And um, yeah, we do anything from 80s, 90s, and today with a little bit of a fiddle twist.

SPEAKER_03:

So and quite a fiddler.

SPEAKER_01:

Electric fiddle nonetheless.

SPEAKER_03:

So and and if you want to be sound like an insider, ask her about the van. Anyway, that's what I would say. I'm leaving at that. Uh thank you. I want to give you your gift. Everyone who comes on will definitely get a gift. This is yours. There's a pen in there also with resilience development in action.

SPEAKER_01:

Thank you.

SPEAKER_03:

Renee, from the bottom of my heart, I know that you may sound like I you know me, I've never lied. Uh, this has been truly first experiences in this studio, but from the bottom of my heart, really enjoyed it. Uh, we need to talk outside of here, but more importantly, hopefully you come back too.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00:

Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_03:

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00:

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People on this episode

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Steve Bisson

Host
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Courtney Romanowski

Co-host
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Renae Mansfield

Guest