Resilience Development in Action

E.230 From Restorative Sleep To Field-Proven Leadership For First Responders (Part 2 of 2)

• Steve Bisson, Tony Crescenzo • Season 12 • Episode 230

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Change that lasts doesn’t come from a one-time high or another sleepless night patched by a pill. It comes from disciplined, daily work that your brain can actually keep—paired with leadership that people trust when it matters most. Steve sits down with Marine veteran and CEO Tony Crescenzo to unpack how audio-driven brain signals can turn short-term “state” shifts into month-later “trait” changes, especially for first responders who need real restorative sleep, calmer stress responses, and sharp, on-demand focus.

Tony explains why many sleep aids trade consciousness for quality, and how targeted signals—played on speakers, no headphones required—help nudge your brain into restorative rhythms you can retain. We talk timing and caution with upregulation tools, creative research that mimics ketamine-like EEG states without the drug, and why a practical 28 to 31 day window is fast when you’re aiming for durable change. Therapy isn’t sidelined; it’s strengthened. Cultural competence, honest fit, and doing the work between sessions matter as much as any technology.

Then we move from personal resilience to organizational resilience. Tony draws from the Marine Corps to break down four levels of leadership, from positional authority to field effect, where mission, vision, values, and culture guide action even when you’re not in the room. He favors bad news because it’s actionable, builds systems that surface hard questions, and sets expectations so clearly that people don’t have to guess. Management keeps metrics on track; leadership gives the plan meaning and keeps teams aligned under pressure.

If you’re a first responder, veteran, or leader trying to build a healthier, higher-performing team, this conversation offers tools you can use today and habits you can keep for the long haul. Subscribe, share this episode with a teammate who needs better sleep or better leadership, and leave a review to help others find the show.

How to reach Jonathan:


1) https://www.IntelligentWaves.com
2) https://www.PeakNeuro.com
3) https://www.linkedin.com/in/tonycrescenzo/



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SPEAKER_02:

You're listening to Resilience Development in Action with Steve Beastle. We're here to strengthen first responder mental health, supporting police, fire, EMS, dispatchers, and paramedics as they build resilience and thrive in high-stress careers. Let's dive in.ai.

SPEAKER_00:

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unknown:

Uh uh.

SPEAKER_00:

Get free from even writing your uh transcripts. Uh use that to your advantage. Uh free.ai, a great service. Go to get free.ai and you will get one of the best services that will save you time and money. And I highly encourage you to do so. Well, welcome back to the episode. I'm here with Tony Crescenzo, and for those of you who missed the first part, go back and listen to it because this episode 230 is really fascinating. We're talking about different things. We we left off in the first episode in regards to we were talking about how we can this in about a month works. You know, the first thought I had, and this is with all due respect to all my guys who are first responders at military. A month's way too long, Tony. What the hell are you talking about? I gotta get better today. What the hell, man? Why am I gonna have to wait a month? I know you talked about your sleep and what I got from that too. And please elaborate as you wish, but I think that the other part too is that you don't, you know, you take a pill, you're gonna sleep, but you're not gonna get to the REM sleep, you're not gonna get the restorative sleep, you're not gonna get what you want. But getting back to the restorative sleep is not a one-day pro like thing. And I think that a lot of people struggle with that. So maybe you can expand a little more in regards to that.

SPEAKER_01:

No, it's a it's a great question. And what I meant by uh, I think the average is 28 to 31 days, is where this becomes what we call trait level, not state level. So if you've ever listened to Brain FM or Endel or Calm uh or what's the other one, Headspace. I think um Headspace. One of them is one of them is just guided meditation, there's no signals in it. Or if you listen to the expand app, um, what you'll you know, what you'll find is that you'll feel good for a half hour until the exercise is over. And then you go, your brain just snaps back to the way it was. Um the difference is is when you use and you you you you'd have to dedicate some time to it, it's about a half hour a day. Uh and if you want to sleep at night, you just put on the sleep thing. You can play it on a stereo. You don't need uh you don't even need headphones.

SPEAKER_00:

Uh stereo, you just give away your age.

SPEAKER_01:

That's okay. I I don't mind. You know, we're trying to help people here. I'm not I'm not selling headphones anyway.

SPEAKER_00:

I just want to I just wanted to note that because my kids like stereo, what's that?

SPEAKER_01:

So you go as long as you play it on a speaker, you'd be okay. It sounds like airplane noise, it sounds like white noise. Um you you feel the effects on day one, but they become cumulative, and your brain actually changes. You get what's called, so when you do it on day one, you get a state level change. 30 minutes later, boy, I feel good for a couple hours. And on day two, boy, I feel good for a couple hours and a few minutes, and so on and so on, until somewhere around the uh 28th to 31st day, we start to see these changes occur and they stick. Um, as I said, I I haven't listened to the sleep signals for a year and a half, and I still sleep 50% restorative because my brain is now changed. Now, I all you know I'm also testing all the new stuff that we do, and I'm typically in training uh uh you know at least once a day anyway, just because it's it's the the work that we do. But the the difference between this and anything else is that after about a month, you're gonna find that you don't need it as much. It's not something that you have to live with. Think of it this way: if you want to get fit, you're and let's say you start with uh barbell curls, you're gonna get some big biceps, but your triceps are gonna maybe not be so great, or your chest. So you'll do that and then you'll move on to chest, and then you move on to something else. And basically, it's an e it's really a never-ending process. You what I found is you get to the point where you sleep well, and then you're like, well, what else can I do? Well, you know, maybe I'd like to think better, maybe I'd like my reaction time to be faster, maybe I'd like to upregulate, you know, to the point that we can downregulate you post-trauma. We can also, you know, we're working with uh uh some classified customers on keeping combat troops, uh keeping troops effective, combat effective on three hours of sleep. And the way we do that is it's a I won't get into the details here, but essentially we work backwards from the problem of two marine lance corporals sitting in a sitting in a fighting hole, two hours on, two hours off on watch. The guy who's two hours off isn't really getting any good sleep at two hours, but we can mimic in your brain what that sleep looks like, which is very low delta, and then increase your ability to be lucid so if somebody comes sneaking up on your position, you can hear it. Uh so the ability to up and down regulate are two different things. I tested something yesterday, it was kind of funny. We do this with an EEG in our lab, and I was testing some up upregulation uh technology, and I had a hell of a time going to sleep last night. It was like six hours later, and I'm thinking to myself, I always fall asleep in like three breaths. This what's going on? And I had to run downstairs and go look at the results of uh the exercises that I tested. And I guess good news is they work and they last for a while. Bad news is you got to be careful when you use them.

SPEAKER_00:

Uh so you know, I want to add a couple of things here for for the audience to understand why change takes that that time. There's two things that are well known in my field is that it takes at least 21 days for a change, and the important part is at least 21. And I tell people, like, if you don't give it three weeks, and that's the bare minimum, you're a really fast learner if it's three weeks. It it's really rare that people do it within 21. The other very important one is it takes at least seven repetitions of the same thing in order to really sink into your brain, and that's not me saying that, that's neurology saying that. So I think that what I I think it was important not only to add to what you were saying is that those two stats are just like well known, well proven. So 28 days isn't that that slow. I I think it's pretty fast. And you know, coming to therapy with me, and then they come in for six weeks, and sometimes they'll be like, Why haven't changed? I said, What type of effort have you made outside that hour? And they're like, uh, and I'm like, exactly. I mean, I go to therapy myself, but it's not like my therapist, like I go, all right, I had my one hour, I'm better. I gotta think about what my therapist said, put some things in place. Some of it works, some of it doesn't. And when you're dealing with this type of uh peak neural stuff and what you're talking about, I think it's fascinating because it's all good stuff that really will bring change. But I just want to really address with my audience that again, knowing your people, cultural competency, yes, it takes time, but 28 days isn't that long. So just wanted to throw that out.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, if you're a if you're a first responder or a military veteran, the one thing you know about is discipline, and that takes discipline to do it to do it every day for 30 days, it it takes it. And if you want to change, you can.

unknown:

Right.

SPEAKER_01:

And you'll do it, you'll do it without drugs, which is really interesting. Uh one of the experiments we tried, so we took a veteran on a ketamine journey. Uh veterans love uh, I think one of the one of the uh clear winners in treating PTSD is is psychedelics. It's new, but there are many that either can't or don't want to take uh a psychedelic. So we reverse engineered the brainwaves of a veteran on ketamine and put that into uh an entrainment package, and it actually works. It takes a couple of tries. You can't do it on the first one, or most people can't, but after two or three of those, man, you you really get the experience. It's it's interesting.

SPEAKER_00:

That's perfect. I really like that because I think that that's what we need to learn to do is to adapt. I think you talk we talked about adaptation the first part. I always think about adaptation as a need in general for life. The other part that you mentioned that I, you know, one of the things that you talk about that is, you know, you had a therapist and you know, he had to take, he's like, you know what, you're triggering me. I think that one of the things that I want to share with people is that I I really like what Peak Neuro is doing. But if you do have a therapist that is being truthful and says that to you, respect it. And vice versa, if the therapist is not able to handle it, respect that and tell them that, okay, great, I'll find someone else who's culturally competent or someone else who's like that. Um the reason why I mentioned that is I see too many military personnel who you know end up in my couch eventually. I'm like, you're this fifth guy, and you seem to be understanding me more than all the other four combined. And I said, Well, it's because they may not have had the cultural competency, maybe you weren't connected to them, maybe there's something else that was going on, but ultimately being very mindful of that. Um, as you as you talk a lot about this stuff, maybe it's time to shift a little bit the gears because I want to know a couple of things. You're you when you serve, I I think that when you have a marine background in particular, as much as I make fun of my marine guys sometimes, I love my marine guys, but it really there's a something about leadership philosophy and the work that you got to do with the Marines that sometimes can really fit into a culture of a workplace, or it could really, really, really be bad. Because you are very much methodical and disciplined, as you mentioned. What how has that shaped your philosophy as a guy who's gone from venture capitalist to your treatment to what you're doing right now?

SPEAKER_01:

That's a that's a great question. Um, you know, it's interesting. The Marine Corps is different than all of the other branches of the armed services in one, well, in many ways, but I'll give you the from a leadership standpoint in this way.

SPEAKER_00:

Right.

SPEAKER_01:

Uh, if you're if you enlist in the Air Force, you may be in the Air Force for 10 years before you receive one hour of leadership training. If you enlist in the Army, you will not receive leadership training until you're an NCO. Same thing with the Navy. You could be a chief petty officer and not receive leadership training. Every Marine private who graduates from boot camp and every Marine second lieutenant who graduates from officer candidate school receive exactly the same training, same leadership training. So while every Marine is a rifleman, every Marine is also a leader, and it is an ongoing daily, everyday exercise in learning how to lead others. Now, the difference I think for some people is there's a much, there's a there's a pretty big gap between, say, NCO leadership and uh how general officers lead. I have uh I have three uh lieutenant generals on my board at Intelligent Waves. Um uh Lieutenant General Cameron Holt, he's retired from the United States Air Force, Lieutenant General John Sattler, who is a retired United States Marine, and the commanding general of the Second Battle of Fallujah, the largest firefight since Vietnam. And his boss, uh Lieutenant General Tom Metz from the United States Army, he was the uh chief of staff of all forces in Iraq, and General Metz worked for him. Um, what I can tell you is that, and people ask me this all the time, every important thing I ever learned about leadership in my life, I learned in the Marine Corps. And the entire rest of my career has been a validation exercise. And what that means is it's not really, and pardon my French, but you got first responders on there, it's not really about putting your foot in people's ass. Um, the the Marine Corps it has a very elegant leadership philosophy. In fact, if you go to the United States Naval Academy, you are required to write what's called a leader's compass. And it is your personal leadership philosophy, and it's something that I've embraced. Uh my leader's compass is now 300 pages, but I distill it down to two. And every employee, every customer, every board member, everyone I interact with gets a copy of that for two reasons. One, it's kind of a primer on how to work with me. What I stand for, what I won't stand for, what I value, um, and what I would like you to value. And that's how I'm going to hold you accountable. But it's also how you hold me accountable. If I tell you that transparency is important and I'm not transparent with you, then you should be able to hold me accountable. It's kind of funny. There's a uh I'm I'm about three-quarters of the way through a book on leadership that starts with really the four stages. So you start with leadership that's positional. Uh I'm a corporal, you're a private, you do what I say because I got that stripe over here.

SPEAKER_00:

Right, the stripe, the stripes and stars, right?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, that's that's leadership by authority, right? That's uh that's do it because I say so. And then, you know, you get a little bit better and you start to realize, man, you know, it's really about relationships. You know, I'm I'm I'm gonna develop relationships with people, I'm gonna care about them, uh, I'm gonna introduce them to people, I'm gonna help them grow. And that's the second stage where you become a relational leader. But there are limitations to that as well. In particular, I would tell you that there's something they teach Marine officers that are true for business executives. And it might not be pleasant to hear, but it's true. To be a good Marine officer and to be a good business executive, you have to be able to kill the thing you love the most, and that's the people who work for you. They're not your friends, right? They're just not. But you are responsible for them and everything that they do, and everything that they fail to do is on you. So you have to understand that that's really from a responsibility standpoint. I I love uh Lieutenant General Sattler. He gives a talk. I'll give him credit because I don't want anybody to think I stole his talk. He calls it generals eat last. And when you're in the field or you're in combat operations, you could be out for 30 days, not have a shower, living in the dirt, eating out of a plastic bag, and then one day the chow truck shows up with hot food. And you know who eats first? Privates. And then corporals, sergeants, then officers, lieutenants, captains, colonels. By the time it gets to the generals, there's usually coffee and cake, and that's about it. But you know what? That's the way it should be, because privates fight the war. And so leaders who lead like that tend to be very successful. And leaders who decide that, you know, I think what did uh I think it was Napoleon who said the general's reward isn't a bigger tent. It's it's the privilege of command. It's it's the trust that people put in you. So you go from relational leadership, where it's all about who you know, to strategic leadership, which is really about growing people and helping them achieve what they want to be. And then I think the fourth level, which a lot of people never get to, is what I call field effect leadership, where you don't even have to be in the room. The fact that you have imbued on an organization mission, vision, values, and culture means that if you're not there, no one needs to ask. You know, the what do I fear most is people having to ask, what would Tony do? What would Tony say? I don't want him to I don't want him to ask, I want them to know. And if they can see me coming from a thousand miles away, it makes it easier for them to operate. Because you know, the number one reason people leave companies is they don't understand what their boss wants. Setting and managing expectations is one of the most important things a leader can do. And to do it compassionately uh is difficult, right? We're all we're all under pressure. Uh we're in the we're in the middle of a government shutdown. I've got hundreds of employees who are at risk right now. And not just the employees, but their families. And yet, if something aggravates me, I don't get to bite somebody's ass off. I mean, I I might do it for effect because that's you know, that's part of leadership too, is understanding uh what someone needs. Leadership is a conversation, it's a dialogue between the leader and the led. And if you listen, people will tell you what they need. And most often, they don't need you to yell at them. They need you to understand them, they need you to meet them where they are, and they need you to bring them where they need to go. Um and that to me is is really the essence of leadership. And the Marine Corps is a lot like that. Yes, I, you know, I don't know if anyone's watched that show Boots on Netflix. It's yeah, viral now. You know, there's some crazy stuff in there that doesn't make sense. No one ever lets you have alcohol in the Marine Corps boot camp. And drill instructors are not nice to you. They might they might actually be nice to you like the last day, but for the most part, that that's pretty real. But you'll notice in that in that in that series that there are times when the drill instructors are very compassionate, when they understand what's going on, because they've been there. Their job is to make Marines. And one of the things that I learned very early in boot camp and in officer candidate school, I've been a graduate of both, is they're gonna beat you until it doesn't affect you anymore.

SPEAKER_00:

Right.

SPEAKER_01:

And then then they'll leave you alone to go bother somebody else. They want to make sure, and I can tell you, the the mission of the drill instructors in officer candidate school, they're all former Paris Island or or San Diego drill instructors. They go to officer candidate school because they have one job weed out anybody that isn't fit to lead them. And that, you know, the Marine Corps, everybody thinks it's a bunch of crazy guys, and it kind of is, but you know that red stripe on their on their dress blues? Have you seen that stripe? Yeah, only officers and NCOs wear that. And what I love about the Marine Corps is that they celebrate failure. That stripe uh is in memoriam of the Battle of Chapultepec, where I think 50% of the officers and NCOs were killed by a bunch of 15-year-old kids. I mean, they really got their butts kicked, but they're willing to look at themselves, right? They're willing to stop, reflect, and look at what we can do differently, right? Uh in the Marine Corps, a hot wash matters. So the ability to think about what you're doing, to take responsibility for your actions, and to admit that you're making mistakes as a leader. I mean, you're you're a person, and by the way, everybody knows you made a mistake. You're kind of an asshole if you don't admit it. Right. So and trust me, it took me a long time to get to this place. I started out as, you know, the former Marine Sergeant who was just putting my foot in everybody's butt. Uh, and that that works in a crisis. It doesn't work with highly skilled, intelligent professionals who all want to do what's right and what's good.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, you bring them a lot of different points. I didn't know all those leadership types, but thank you for sharing that. One of the things that I always emphasize with anyone who is uh particularly in the first responder world, I remember a good friend of mine said, you don't need stripes and stars to be a leader. And I remind that constantly because people are like, Well, you know, my sergeant, my lieutenant, I'm like, wham, wham, wham. I'm not quite that bad, but sometimes if it's someone I really know, I go, wham, wham, wham, what are you doing? Yeah. And um I know that people might say that's not a very compassionate statement from a therapist, it's a lot more compassionate than people know. Because I think that what you you know, I tell people that as a therapist, sometimes people say, Oh, you're like my friend. I'm like, I'm a paid friend, but yeah, sure, okay, I'm your friend, and I'm friendly with you, but that doesn't mean I'm gonna pull a punch for you. And I think that that's where you know you talked about the type of leadership, you know, I really admire is that leadership, also the one thing that I think you do, and correct me if I'm wrong, don't yes me if you don't believe it. If you believe in what I'm saying, say it. But if you're just gonna yes me to make me happy, including my clients, I'm like, no, I'm a flawed human being, I don't know everything. Please freaking help me here. Because if you're like, oh yeah, that's great, and you never practice it, or you're just fucking annoyed with me, that doesn't work. And yeah, you can always swear on this podcast, there's no problem with that. But the point is, is I think that what you're talking about leadership is so important because people don't quite get it. Uh being a stars and stripes type of person is one thing, but if you're not able to take feedback from people, that's not the leadership I want to work on.

SPEAKER_01:

Exactly. You know, I I think that's that's absolutely uh one of the core principles of leadership that most people gloss over. Um I I I do a monthly town hall on uh on a Teams call because we're so geographically dispersed, we have people sitting in skiffs all day. Uh, and I'll take questions in advance. And the harder the question, the uh honestly, the the better it is. And I actually have one individual who challenges me every month. I call him my communist agitator. Uh but as far as I'm concerned, that's a compliment. You know, it's funny. Uh I learned uh I I would tell you, I learned a couple of years ago a new a new phrase. It's called professional CEO, right? There are founder CEOs, and then there are professional CEOs. And someone gave me the compliment of calling me a professional CEO. But I will tell you that the last thing a professional CEO hears before he gets fired or she gets fired is good news. Good news makes my ass itch. Bad news is actionable. Bad news, I can do it.

SPEAKER_00:

I know what you're saying, though.

SPEAKER_01:

Bring me bad, bring me bad news, and I will reward you. And when you do that for people, you'd be surprised. Uh bad bosses are everywhere. You know, if you can just be an above-average boss, you will get loyalty like you you wouldn't believe. One of the one of the measures that I have for my own leadership, uh, I have this, well, I probably don't have it anywhere close. I have an 11 by 14 envelope filled with thank you cards of over the last 25 years. And not a single one is from an employee. They're from employee spouses. When you know you're doing well when somebody's wife or husband says, Hey, can you make him work late again? Because I really enjoyed the reward you gave him. Or thank you for doing this. You know, if we have an employee and your immediate family member uh gets injured or passes away, we're going to the funeral. You're gonna see us. You're gonna, you know, we don't we don't send birthday cards that are form letters. We once a month, the entire leadership team sits down and writes out uh birthday notes. Um first year I got here, the Christmas cards had pictures of the executives on them, like Brady Butch. And I called my wife and I said, if you got this, how would you, what would you feel? And she's like, that's stupid. So now all the Christmas cards have pictures of employees. I mean, it seems simple, but if you're not willing to listen to people, if you're not willing to say, tell me what's right here. Look, I'm I'm 64 years old. We're not necessarily in the same age category.

SPEAKER_00:

You I just We're the same generation, though.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, basically. I I don't know what it's like. I mean, I I came up uh as a programmer, a DBA, a project manager. I've done every job you can have except finance or HR, because no one believes that I can count as a Marine, and you don't want me around an HR function. That's just not going to work. But every other job I've done, but I don't know what it's like to sit in a Cube. I just don't. So one of the things, one of the techniques that I've always I've always used in every company that I've run is I I create what's called an employee advisory council. They're like my union shop stores. They're non-management employees, they meet once a month, they they build their own agenda, but their job, they have one mission, and that is to tell me how to make this the best company in the world to work for. Now we may never be, but asking the question is what matters. And so things like paternity leave, which we never had, and I would never think of. I, you know, my daughter's 29 years old. Why would I be thinking about paternity leave? But last year our EAC, you know, called me up and said, hey, listen, we think paternity leave be important. We have, you know, a lot of people who are in uh, you know, they're at the at the age where they're having children and we don't really make room for dads to get time off and call a CFO and three weeks later, boom, paternity leave. Right? A dialogue, right? That's what leadership is.

SPEAKER_00:

And I would tell you, let me just give you one last sort of thing that I learned in the uh and and I just I I want you to go with that, but I just want to repeat and emphasize what you just said. You are a CEO, you are someone in the executive zone, but you're willing to take feedback. And if it's valid, you will validate it. I think that's the other part that people have to understand. And this I'm sending out to the leaders that are not listening to people. That doesn't mean they're always right, but you need to be able to receive that feedback. And I think it's important for me because in the last few episodes before yours, I've been telling, like, look, leadership sometimes fucking sucks. 84% of my first responders report that their biggest stressors is administration betrayal because of lack of communication or listening. So I want to follow up constantly about that because leadership is what makes or breaks a team, whether it's a department, a platoon, a company, I don't really give a crap where you're talking about. But if your leadership is not what you just described, you are destined to fail. And that's for all those heads of departments that tell me, well, you know, I have these stripes and I have these stars and I have blah, blah, blah. I go, yeah, that's nice. I have a piece of paper on the wall that says I have a master. That doesn't make me smart. So anyway, I'm sorry, I had to interrupt.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, not at all. No, no, no. So I often uh we teach leadership here at IW. We have a uh and our and we make our leaders teach leadership. Um, but one of the questions always comes up is well, what's the difference between leadership and management? And I I don't want to talk about that, right? Management is nothing more than minimization of deviation from plan. Management is quantitative. Uh you either make a number or you don't. You you meet a deadline or you don't. You achieve a goal or you don't. It's it's normally very quantitative. Leadership is about minimization of deviation from plan. And what is leadership? Leadership is about getting everyone else so inspired by your plan that they execute it like it's theirs. No one wants to do my plan. No one cares what I think. They want to be part of it, they want to own it, they want to create something. People are most people are are creative and they they want to be part of something bigger than themselves. Our job is to give them as leaders an opportunity to actually become something bigger than themselves, to be a part of something. And that's a little difficult, especially now that we have people geographically dispersed and post uh post-pandemic, people are you know all over the place. My my uh executive leadership team, I think if you add it all up, I think we live in four different states. Once a month, we absolutely see each other from morning until uh until dinner. But other than that, you know, we have to rely on the uh uh various communication modalities or we'll meet each other at a at a customer location. But that whole notion of understanding that while management is very important, look, we're you know, we're a for-profit business, we have to make money. Uh management is a is essential to that. But leadership is what makes management meaningful, it's the context in which management works.

SPEAKER_00:

And I think you can have and we that it's very important for people to understand that. And I appreciate you saying that. But as we wrap up here, because we're getting close to the hour uh between the two interviews, I would like, you know, I'm gonna put it all in the show notes how to reach uh, especially for the app. I think it's very important. I'm gonna put the leadfrog link if I can find it for Amazon, uh, because I think that's also very important.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, that's unsealed.

SPEAKER_00:

Unsealed.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, leadfrog is a show. Unsealed is a link.

SPEAKER_00:

Unsealed. All right. Well, how about you tell me what else? Uh, where do you want people to contact you, be interested in your products, stuff like that?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I'll tell you a couple of things. Uh try the try the technology. Uh go to the website, get the link to the app store. It's absolutely free for 30 days. If you like it, you know, you can purchase different modules. More importantly, if uh I I think I mentioned earlier, we um we have a process now where we can collect information from from your EEG and personalize uh the the signals for an individual. And if you would like to be part of a study, when we're conducting, we're always conducting studies around this. We want to make sure that this, you know, we're doing the best we can for people. Uh, you can send an email to studies at peaknoro.com and give us uh we'll we'll send you a reply asking for some demographic information. Uh, you know, typically we're looking for uh as much homogeneity in a study group as we can. Uh so we do studies with military people, we do studies with first responders. If you're a first responder, we'd like to know are you a fireman? Are you an EMT? Are you a policeman? Because those, you know, we really get down to that level of detail. But if if you'd like to participate in that, uh it can be actually pretty interesting. Get to try some some cool stuff. And the side effects are also interesting as well. I would tell you that the difference between having a resilient psyche and having cognitive resilience and what a Tibetan Buddhist monk looks like when they're meditating is very small.

SPEAKER_00:

Right. I guarantee it.

SPEAKER_01:

So you'll you'll enjoy the side effects.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, I'm I'm happy to put in also the studies at uh peakneural.com. I will definitely put that in the show notes. But I want to thank you, you know, Tony. Again, this is coming out during uh you know, right around Veterans Day. And I hope my veterans who are also first responders are listening and I hope they reach out. I think this peak neural um stuff is extremely important and that's That is to me when you talk about psychotherapy versus pre P Neuro, there's no verses in my opinion. No, no, no. They work together. They work together. And if one works better than the other, all for it. And if not both of them together works for you, again, all for it. We're not here to discriminate. But I am a big fan of this and I really want to thank you for your time.

SPEAKER_01:

By the way, do you know why Veterans Day is November 11th?

SPEAKER_00:

My dad used it 1111 1918, if I remember correctly. Is that it?

SPEAKER_01:

Nope. That's that's not my definition. The Marine Corps birthday, by the way, it's our 250th.

SPEAKER_00:

But I think the Marine Corps is the day before.

SPEAKER_01:

That's right. And so we needed Veterans Day so we could all get some sleep because we're out all partying the night before.

SPEAKER_00:

So that it is true that in training you're bringing the alcohol in. That's the that's what you said. You said that didn't happen, but now you you just gave it away.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I said we. That's the that's the general weight, not necessarily me.

SPEAKER_00:

And uh I'll tell you off-air a great story about Mount Fuji and one of my Marines. But anyway, I really thank you for your time. I will put all this in the show notes, and I hope uh you get a lot of feedback from my guys, and uh thank you so much. Thank you for having me. Have a great day.

SPEAKER_02:

Please like, subscribe, and follow this podcast on your favorite platform. A glowing review is always helpful. And as a reminder, this podcast is for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. If you're struggling with a mental health or substance abuse issue, please reach out to a professional counselor for consultation. If you are in a mental health crisis, call 988 for assistance. This number is available in the United States and Canada.

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Steve Bisson

Host
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Courtney Romanowski

Co-host
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Jonathan Crescenzo

Guest