Resilience Development in Action: First Responder Mental Health

E. 232 How Culture, Communication, And Mentorship Protect Mental Health In Policing (Part 2)

• Steve Bisson, Douglas Wyman • Season 12 • Episode 232

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A culture that actually protects first responders doesn’t happen by accident—it’s built on day-one expectations, family inclusion, and leaders who tell the truth even when the news is hard. We sit down with Doug Wyman to map what real organizational wellness looks like and why “Inside the Box” has become a powerful framework for shifting identity, policy, and practice in policing.

We start where most programs fail: leaving wellness to HR or EAP and forgetting families. Doug explains how to onboard spouses and partners with the same care we give new hires, and why a 10–15 minute decompression ritual at the door can prevent years of resentment at home. From there, we dig into the mentorship pipeline—how great FTOs set career goals, normalize therapy, and keep officers engaged long after field training. As rank rises, the view widens; without peer networks and rank-specific training, command staff unintentionally import narrow worldviews into complex events like suicide, deepening stigma and pain.

The episode unpacks procedural justice for the inside of the house—dignity, voice, clear motives, and follow-through—to counter “administration betrayal.” We name the Man Box and the Cop Box, exploring how rigid ideals make therapy, medication, or simple human tenderness feel like violations. Doug shows how emotional intelligence, conflict resolution, and the Four Agreements become everyday tools that change culture one conversation at a time. And we get practical: field officers should carry the Columbia Suicide Severity Rating Scale, because at 3 a.m. on a bridge you need the right questions, not another search tab.

If you lead, supervise, dispatch, or love a first responder, this conversation offers a blueprint you can use tomorrow—family education, mentorship, internal fairness, and tools that save lives. Listen, share with your team, and tell us what belongs outside the box. If this resonated, subscribe, leave a review, and pass it to a colleague who needs a better way forward.

Go to Doug's LinkedIn website at:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/douglas-wyman-6b80852a/details/featured/

The Class Inside the Box - Focuses on Organizational Wellness and Post Traumatic growth and is for first line supervisors and command staff. 


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SPEAKER_00:

Welcome to Resilience Development Information with Steve Beast Committee. This is the podcast dedicated to first responder mental health, helping police clear EMS, discriminators, and paramedics, create better growth environments for themselves and their teams. Let's get started.

SPEAKER_04:

You know, you've heard me talk about this before. Get free.ai. Great for your note-taking, good for your transcript, good for your goals, good for everything that you do on a HIPAA-compliant nature. And if you use code C50 at checkout, you will get$50 off your first month. And also if you get a whole year, you will also get 10% off the whole year. But getfree.ai has freed me to do more things with my life, including work on other passions. So get free to do your notes, get freed from doing your goals. Getfree.ai with code Steve50 to get$50 off your first month. Well, hi, and welcome to episode 232, part two, um, with Doug Wyman. You know, like one of the things that we've been talking about, we talked about the unfortunate suicide of your uh wife, talked about your family, we talked about rural New Hampshire and how that works.

SPEAKER_02:

Yep.

SPEAKER_04:

But one of the things that's fascinating to me, right before this interview, we you showed us a video. I didn't get to listen to the whole thing, but can't wait to link it in the show notes. We're talking about the process of supporting individuals when they start to going into the first responder world, particularly law enforcement. Yep. Because that's where I think we fail sometimes with these wellness stuff and everything else. But I'd like you to talk about it because I think you can make uh a better story than I can.

SPEAKER_01:

I think one of the things we do when departments say we're gonna have a wellness program is that it's not usually all-encompassing. It's usually left to like HR or somebody that has an interest.

SPEAKER_04:

Or EAP.

SPEAKER_01:

Or EAP or something like that, that it's their job. And it's not. And like I said in the previous episode, it's like, you know, it's one of these things that you have to be proud of your house. And if you're proud of your house, you're gonna want people to come in. So you want this is uh everybody involved your dispatchers, your animal control, if you have that, the ad the admin assistants, the officers, you know, the sergeants, the lieutenants, the captain, everybody has to buy into this. Okay. And it starts day one when that new hire comes in. Okay, and it not only does it start with them, but are we also including our families? Yes. Okay, because one of the things is that you know we go to the academy and get trained to be a police officer. We may have a degree in it so we know what what's going on, okay? But our spouses don't. Okay, when we come home from a shift, um, and you saw in that in that movie that I did show you about the about the dead baby holding your first dead baby, that actually happened to me. And I was a new father when it happened. And it's it's like you come home and you're like, there's nothing, there's nothing there. Because you just what you just saw or what you just experienced, even if they asked you, you've got no words for it. Um how do you explain, really? Yeah, and you're trying to still process it yourself. And a lot of times, and then couple that on, like we said, you know, the 200 traumatic incidences that are so keep compounding that, okay. And our spouses sometimes they you get it every once in a while. How many people out there have had, you know, uh when you walk through the door and mom says, Dad's home? Okay, what does that mean? Right. Okay, does everybody go running for the hills? Or is it you know the kids come up and you know hug you, or is it does that mean that dad needs about 10 minutes or 15 minutes just to go and before he's able to engage?

SPEAKER_03:

Right.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay, I would submit that if it's everybody goes running for the hills, you Houston has a problem. Yeah. So um, but our but our spouses don't know how to deal with that.

SPEAKER_04:

But I I would argue also that we don't teach our first responders how to communicate that.

SPEAKER_01:

Exactly. Exactly. And that's why when you're having these wellness programs and you're putting them together, it's imperative that they're included in that process because they're coming to this job with no training. Right. And they have their own expectations of how marriage should be, how bearing how you know, real or not, how being married to a firefighter, a police officer, whoever, you know, is supposed to go. Okay, and it's not it it it's nine times out of ten, it's not that. Right. It's not that.

SPEAKER_04:

I I think that that's why the program is so so important because what I explain to some of the spouses, because again, I I talk about cultural competency. If you're not a therapist that understands that if you work with first responders, spouses can come in, mothers can come in, fathers can come in, you've got to be able to communicate with all of them as well as the client. Without you got to do that. But a lot of my guys that need that and they really appreciate it. And when I say it to my, and we talk about cultural competency, maybe I'm getting off-subject here, but they're like, oh, you do that, you let them in? And I'm like, of course. Explaining to a spouse from a therapist's standpoint that your spouse probably needs 15 minutes. Not the end of the world. Get them to just do the transition because it's a hard transition, whether you're a police officer, a firefighter, an EMT, a paramedic, a nurse, an ER doc. I mean, I I put all my guys like in that. Like there's a transition that I my ex-wife understands. My current girlfriend, who is a nurse director, who also worked in ERs, absolutely understands. But it's hard to explain to people like he doesn't want to talk to you maybe for 10 minutes, but it's not, it has nothing to do with you. And you need to have those conversations, but you don't teach our officers, our firefighters, and everyone else how to do so.

SPEAKER_01:

Because it it it goes to, you know, you have to almost switch gears. It's like you were coming from a very linear, symmetrical, do this, do that way of communicating with people to having to be compassionate and loving and being vulnerable.

SPEAKER_03:

Right.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay, and that can take a minute.

SPEAKER_04:

And your authority means a lot different at home than it means in a community.

SPEAKER_01:

Exactly, exactly. So you need to do that. The other part of it is that FTOs, field training officers are critical in that not only in career building, but also mentoring this correct uh to the newer officers that come on board. So finding out what they want to do, where they want to go with the career, maybe what their interests are now, and when they graduate from FTO, writing those objectives and goals down, and that that follows them when that first annual evaluation comes up, second evaluation, you know, are we on career track? Um one of the things that also gets lost too is mentoring when you become a supervisor, mentoring when you become a lieutenant, mentoring when you become a chief. Because you still need people to bounce stuff off of, but you also need support, but in a different way. And oftentimes what happens is that there's a big there's a big visual change when you become from officer to sergeant. So now your view becomes a little bit a little bit wider. Right. Okay. When you become a lieutenant or whatever, and you're in charge of a bureau, it becomes a little bit wider, okay. And then like I used to say, you know, the the view the view doesn't change until you become the lead dog. Right. Okay, so now when you're chief, okay, you've got the broader view, because you've got not only not only do you have an external view, but now you not only do you have that internal view, but you also have that external view, and you have to have it at 30,000 feet to be able to look at this stuff. And it's important, and I'll never forget the lessons that I learned. It's like right off the bat, you know, my dad, when I was a kid and he knew I wanted to be a police officer, although he didn't want me to be one. Um he says, you gotta have a rabbi. Yeah, you know, you always have to have a rabbi. So like so, like when I was a chief, I had three or four on speed dial that had been chiefs before that I go, hey, you know, I just need to I just need the bitch. Or or hey, I got this situation, what's going on here? Um the other part of it is too, and then often they get stuck in the cycle. And the academies do a pretty good job at this. They do a pretty good job with training you up to about the rank of sergeant. Right. Okay. So post that it is very important that if you become a command officer to network that way, become a part of the organizations, the professional organizations, like international chiefs, your state chiefs, um, New England chiefs, and stuff like that, so that you can find rank appropriate training. So you can become, in your term, culturally competent in what you're doing. Because you're gonna get you need in those positions, you need to change your worldview a little bit and how you look at things. And like I told you earlier, like in the class that we teach at Roger Williams, we've had it come up a couple times now where whether it be a line of duty death or a suicide death on a department, where the chiefs have taken it upon themselves that this is what we're gonna do. Okay, and it was completely wrong. Because their worldview doesn't include have experience in suicide. Right. Or their worldview does include not maybe a personal experience with suicide, but maybe a religious experience with suicide as to what the scriptures may or may not say about that. Or um there may be some stigma attached to that where they feel that you know it's either a selfish act or whatever, but that worldview is now is now inserted into that department's organization, and it may not it may not be healthy. And whatever that process is in which what you're going to do at that point has to be inclusive because your sergeants are the ones that are gonna have to manage whatever you come down with. It is incumbent upon them to be able to keep the ship steered in the right direction, because if it isn't, it's gonna go off the rails and it's gonna sink.

SPEAKER_04:

Well, I think that I don't want to get too off the rails myself, but I want to mention this because we had a brief conversation about that. That's why I think people sometimes feel that administration betrayal. You know, we'll call him Johnny, becomes a lieutenant, and Johnny changes and doesn't remember what being boots in the ground, and they feel betrayed because a decision has to be made financially or whatever the town manager decided, especially in New England. I don't want to talk about the rest of the country. How do you like if you don't have the like you talked about having that uh environment, that cultural competency, the department, so to speak, to do so. How do you deal with that administration betrayal or feeling that they're like out of touch? Because in in Massachusetts, like, oh well, talk to the union. Okay, whatever. Uh, but you know, how do we deal with that?

SPEAKER_01:

A lot of times it's using those critical critical thinking skills in your communication skills, okay, in that some of these the some of these things require conversation. Okay, some things are gonna be within a chief's control or within or within the lieutenant's control, other things are not. But those things need to be communicated, and it's you know, it's pretty much procedural justice in that you know you treat people with dignity, you allow them to tell your story, you convey trust trustworthy motives, and you communicate those to them, okay, so that, you know, so like, okay, well, we're gonna go for 5% raises this year. Right. Okay, well, we're gonna go for them. Doesn't mean we're gonna get them. Okay. So that process needs to be communicated as to what goes into that process, and that that decision just isn't the Chiefs. That that has a whole line of line of things to go through before it comes out on the other end. Um well, you said I was gonna be promoted to sergeant. Right. Okay, well, the position didn't come open. It was either cut from the budget, okay, or the person that we thought was leaving isn't leaving. Or it could be half a dozen different other things.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, I mean what I what I've what you describe is if you and again, with all due respect to some of the leadership I know, what you're describing is a good leadership.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, you have you have to communicate to your people, you have to keep them informed.

SPEAKER_04:

But what if you don't have that? What if your leadership isn't that good? And I'm not trying to pick on anyone, just being the devil's advocate here.

SPEAKER_01:

And I and I've I've experienced that where you're where your leadership isn't that good, and unfortunately, and unfortunately, it is gonna take either a really good sergeant or a really good immediate supervisor to be the buffer for you to able for able you to endure that. Or like in my case, I left.

SPEAKER_04:

Well, that's what we find, right? A lot of people end up leaving.

SPEAKER_01:

You know, I left I left I left a certain department because it uh it wasn't gonna happen. No matter what I did, no matter no no matter what I did, it didn't it didn't matter. It wasn't it wasn't happening. Um and uh and then you just have to find you have to find your happiness. You have to at some point say, is it all is it all worth it? Right. Okay, and if it is, then okay, it is. If it's not, then it's not. Things aren't, unfortunately, we in this paramilitary organizations we have, whether it be police or fire, there is a there is a there is a hierarchy, there is an up and down. Right um, and it does usually go up and down, it very rarely goes side to side. Um so and like I said, that's called gossiping, but anyway, go down. Well exactly. But there but there but there are things that again, there are things that are within the control of and there are things that are not in the control of. I remember there was a department nearby me that they were complaining about their staffing levels, that their staffing levels were were too low. And you know, and that the chief should you know have the part-time officers, you know, work the shifts. Well, unfortunately, the the the chief couldn't because the union contract said it had to be X amount full-time officers first, that the the shifts had to go up first. And so, you know, you have that, you have that again that throws it in the mix with your collective bargaining agreements. If it's a really if it's a if it's a good one, the the management and the rank and file, it's kind of a 50-50. There are some that management for whatever reason gives up some of that, gives up some of their own flexibility, and now all of a sudden it's not, particularly if you've you you've come from departments and this happens to be the department where like the chief wasn't even involved in the union contract, it was all the border selectmen. They left the chief out of it. And it's like, uh how's that work? Because he's the one you you want him to be able to manage the contract, and you're you're setting him up for failure, is basically what's that, what what's happening there. Um so there is, but it all boils down to again. Um and we all have them. We've all we've all had really great leaders, and we've all had some pretty shitty ones. Correct. Okay. And it comes down to if you're a leader in a department, communic it's communication is key. And it's just not it's just not what you say, it's how you say it.

SPEAKER_03:

Correct.

SPEAKER_01:

And and like I said, information is information's key. You don't have to give your people all the nitty-gritty about it, but you know, hey, just to let you know, budget committee said, you know, I know we said we were gonna go for five, they're offering three and a half. Okay, or they're offering, you know, three and a half this year and maybe another two and two and a half. Yeah, next two, one or whatever. Yeah, so we're so we're so we're kinda ahead kind of ahead of the curve, but you know, whatever. Um, but you don't need to go into that, well, this selectman said this, and that one said that, and this budget committee member, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You know, you don't need to get into the nitty-gritty, you don't need to get into the sausage making part of it. No. But again, you know, treat people with respect and dignity, allow them to tell their story, okay? You convey trustworthy motives, and then you follow up on it. It's not rocket science. I I agree. I mean, and if you treat your people like that, I mean it's that's essentially what procedural justice is, and if you treat your people that way, it gives you legitimacy as a leader. And it builds morale that, you know, hey, you know, we might not have gotten what we want, but he told us the truth.

SPEAKER_04:

And that's what I explained to some of the leaders that I know that I work with is like you don't need to tell them everything about the making of the sausage, as you said. Yeah, it's being able to convey why that decision was made in that way. And I think that a lot of people for forget those little things about asking the right questions or asking because you know you talk about you know going through the ranks. Yep. And sometimes an officer asks the sergeant, then asks the lieutenant before it gets to the deputy chief, and then it gets to the chief. And I call that the telephone game. And that plays a factor too.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, and that telephone game, what what that officer told that sergeant, that who told that lieutenant, who told that deputy chief, who told that chief, by the time it gets to the chief, it it's not the same message. That's what I mean. I think that plays a factor.

SPEAKER_04:

But one of the things that um yeah, I'd go on and on about administration stuff, but I want to switch gears because I really want to talk about your program.

SPEAKER_02:

Yep.

SPEAKER_04:

Um I again, I I was looking at it right before, and you were talking about a square, which I thought was a brilliant idea. But I'd like the audience to hear a little more about what you mean by that.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, so the so the the class that we teach at Roger Williams to the first line supervision section, we call it kind of like the the the touchy-feely huggy class, but um and it's the end, it's the it's the last class, it's one of the last classes they have um where we go over a bunch of stuff. But um, suicide prevention is one of them, suicide prevention awareness is one of them, um, organizational wellness, post-traumatic growth. It's it's an all-in-it's basically taking culminating what they've learned over the past two weeks that they've been there and making it kind of a practical exercise into one thing. So you have this one employee that, or maybe you've got a couple employees that something's off.

SPEAKER_03:

Right.

SPEAKER_01:

Um, and whether it's you know acute stress, whether it's post-traumatic stress, whether it's trauma, whether it's you know, whatever's going on in their life, something's something's different. But it's also about building longness programs like we've talked about. Right. Um, so in this in this exercise that we go through, it's based upon a movie that was filmed by the Nantucket Project back in 2019. And we developed this course over it. And we've been teaching it now for six years um at the school. Um it's um, like I said, it's kind of an all-encompassing class, uh, but it's it's well received, but it's more about so a lot of officers up until that point learn and they still learn about it. They learn about how how to do self-care, self-wellness. So this is more like from an organizational level and collective, it's more collective care than it is anything else. Um, you know, learning, learning a little bit more about their officers, um, and doing, you know, maybe taking the extra step with their people um in the in in with that grand goal of creating that environment.

SPEAKER_04:

One of the things you said when we were talking right out there, uh you talked about, well, is it within the box or within the box? Oh, so I want to hear that story. Yeah. That was fascinating.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, so the box, so the class is called Inside the Box, and where that come where that comes from is um my teaching partner, John Monaghan, and I. Um, he did it before I he did it before I did it, but we've both been to this class where it's um it's called the man box, and it's based off of um uh organization called Boys to Men. And what it is essentially is um so you you make this box and it's like, so what is it to be a man? And then you take all of these gender social constructs of what it is to be a man, okay, about you know, uh, you know, being a protector, being a provider, uh, being tough, being, you know, you get you get the whole thing calling. Emotionless, being able to handle everything. So so is is crying in that box? Right. Is going to a therapist in that box? Is um you know having having a tea party with your daughter and painting your nails and having her put your head hair in pigtails, is that in that box?

SPEAKER_03:

Right.

SPEAKER_01:

No, it's not. So what happens when you're out, what happens when you're outside of that box? Okay, and then we have an even smaller box, which is called the cop box. Okay, so so when so when let's say just men on a generic form that when they uh uh start feeling out of control or have a situation they can't control, who do they call? They call the police. Right. Okay, so what does it mean to be a real cop? What what has been what has been given to you as a police officer as to what that definition means? Okay, and usually it's or even you can do it with a soldier. Okay, so what does it mean to be a good soldier, a good police, you know, be tough, follow orders, do this, do that, okay? Well, is chronic stress and having nightmares in that box is you know having to, you know, whatever in that box. Having flashbacks. Yeah. So is so is that in you know, taking anti-anxiety medication. Um having we had one class, a guy said, I got a s I got a therapist on speed dial. Um, you know, um, the other one's the girlfriend barometer. He goes, My girlfriend says, you know, whenever I come home and I'm starting to feel stressed a little bit, she goes, You need to go see your therapist. And I and I do it. Um, you know, is that is that in that box of what it is to be a cop? Identifying as bisexual, identifying as Yeah, or and then throw that into it, throw, throw, and then, but then that becomes intersectionality too, where boxes start to overlap, and it's like, okay, well, how does this all fit together? Well, it does because it's you. Okay, and then one of the things that we teach in this class, it's called the eyes of oppression. So, but how do you how do you counter an organizational culture? So you've got the eyes of oppression, you've got you've got ideology, institution, uh, interpersonal, and then internal. So, so and we usually we have usually a a couple women in the class where we go, okay, so back in the 1970s, how many women were in law enforcement? Not that many. Why? Because the ideology was a bunch of white guys said, This is man's work, okay, which then comes into how the institution perceives itself, how then goes into how these interpers interpersonal relationships happen, and then you as the person in that organization have to internally, internally focus on yourself about okay, so what parts do I snap off, or what parts do I improve, or what parts do I don't talk about so I can get along in this organization? Right. Okay, so you counter that by you know emotional intelligence, conflict resolution skills, communication skills, and you're able to go the other way. It's that again, it's that diffusion of innovation, being able being able to being able to kick it in reverse and go go the opposite direction. That's how organizational culture becomes better.

SPEAKER_04:

Right. Well, I I go back to what you just talked about, and what comes to mind is I teach a lot about four the four agreements.

SPEAKER_02:

Yep.

SPEAKER_04:

About not taking things personally, um, not making assumptions, doing your best every day and being impeccable with your word. Being able to learn those four things is such an important aspect because a lot of the things like you as a cop you learn not to take everything personally until you do. You have to. It's just business. But but until you do. Until you do. That's the problem, right? It's like, and then reminding people constantly don't take this personally, it has nothing to do with you. It's not you. You know, people will have a box for therapists. That's not about me. That's the box that people create. So that's why I like the idea of a box. Because you talk about women and then women in law enforcement. Now they have an interject, like they should gotta show even less emotion because they're in this job and they're getting a lot of people.

SPEAKER_01:

And they gotta work and anyone will tell you, they gotta work doubly hard because they feel that they gotta prove their chops. Right. Even though they, I mean, even though they don't, I mean they they bring an entirely different thing.

SPEAKER_04:

But that's what the culture is.

SPEAKER_01:

Let's acknowledge it. Yeah, well, that's what that ideology is, that you know, this is men's work. Right. Okay, and same thing in the fire, it's the same thing in the fire service. It isn't it isn't any different. Um I face that too.

SPEAKER_04:

When I worked in the the when I first started, this is years ago in the jail diversion program. I was called the Hug A Tug program. Yep. And I'm like, oh, you're gonna hug them? I'm like, no, that's not my goal at all. That's not. I'm trying to just if they're mentally ill, we want to put them in the right space, not in jail. But you're gonna hug them, right? Like I don't know why I'm supposed to hug everyone.

SPEAKER_01:

And I think and I think one of the things is that they hear maybe it's a defense mechanism, but you hear it even now. It's like the um the social workers responding with police and stuff like that. It it's misunderstood. It's it's it's misunder. It definitely has this place and it's mis and it's mischaracterized tremendously. Um where I mean, because like it it even goes to our class when we're teaching the suicide awareness part of it, we have a a QR code on it for the guys to download the Columbia Suicide Severity Rating Scale. I says, so you're on you're on the Bourne Bridge at three o'clock in the morning, okay, trying to talk a jumper off, okay, and you're trying to figure out whether or not you need to take them to the hospital. Well, the fact that they're on the bridge should give you a clue. But but I says, rather than searching for it, why don't you just pull out either a laminated card or pull it up on your phone? These these are the questions. If they answer four, five, and six, or even to a fellow officer that's having a problem, okay, if they answer yes to four, five, and six, they're going to the hospital. And I'm like, and I'm like, folks, I says, I says, this is the same thing that the E when you get them to the ER, this is the same thing they're gonna use. That's what I'm gonna use. It's the same thing. So so why reinvent the wheel?

SPEAKER_04:

Well, I'm gonna finish on this. I'm hoping to have uh one of the the the initiator of the jail diversion program, Dr. Sarah Abbott, which I worked with her when we started the program. She's gonna be on in a few weeks, hopefully.

SPEAKER_01:

The current director's her office is just down the hall from mine at DMH, is Joanne.

SPEAKER_04:

So Joanne, yeah, and I love Sarah. I absolutely adore Sarah. I worked with her for a while. Um, but how about if people want to reach you? How do we reach you?

SPEAKER_01:

So I have my I'll give you my uh my mass email. So it's Douglas.wyman2 at mass.gov. Yep. Um my personal cell is 603 986 6487. Yep. Uh my work cell. It's going to be funny, but I gotta I have to look. So it's 857 289 5993. And you know, we do class. Classes for Roger Williams four times a year for first line supervisor. We do it for command. We've done it for several area departments. So if you're interested in it, we'll put it on for your department.

SPEAKER_04:

Well, Doug, I'm hoping that you come back on the show at some point again. Really enjoyed it. Anytime. My pleasure. And I hope that we even develop, like I know I put the pressure on you, but I do hope we develop a friendship because I'm going to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_01:

Absolutely positively. Absolutely positively.

SPEAKER_04:

Well, this is it, folks. This is episode 232 for and I hope you come back for episode 233 and thank you for your time.

SPEAKER_00:

Please like, subscribe, and follow this podcast on your favorite platform. A glowing review is always helpful. And as a reminder, this podcast is for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. If you're struggling with a mental health or substance abuse issue, please reach out to a professional counselor for consultation. If you are in a mental health crisis, call 988 for assistance. This number is available in the United States and Canada.

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Steve Bisson

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Douglas Wyman

Guest