E. 233 Why Role Loss After Service Can Turn Deadly And What Actually Helps (Part 2)

The silence after the last shift can be deafening. We dive into what really happens when the badge comes off and the calls stop, tracing the steep drop from team identity and adrenaline to isolation, substance use, and rising suicide risk. With honesty and urgency, we unpack why retirement hits first responders so hard and outline a practical safety net that works in the real world.

We talk through the addictive rhythm of police, fire, EMS, and corrections work—why the culture bonds like family, and why role loss feels like grief, not change management. From the “greatest show in town” to the long, quiet afternoons, we map the transition pitfalls: relationship strain, gambling, financial pressure, heavy drinking, and access to means. Then we move to solutions that stick: QPR training for everyone, union-led outreach to members on injury or IA, and a retiree association built on peer mentors, quarterly meetups, and easy referral to culture-competent clinicians and recovery coaches.

Therapy only helps when it respects the culture. We make the case for long-term, stigma-free care that starts at the kitchen table, not a clipboard wall. Leaders play a decisive role, too: fund peer teams, protect privacy, standardize evaluations, and create fair return-to-duty paths that treat mental health injuries like broken bones. Fire service models show how trust grows when unions hold the keys and chiefs clear the way. Our aim is simple—keep people connected, valued, and alive long after the radio goes quiet.

If this conversation resonates, share it with your crew, subscribe for more candid tools and stories, and leave a review to help other first responders find us. Your voice can pull someone back from the edge.

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Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome And Sponsor Offer
• 1:08 Framing The Retirement Problem
• 3:58 Identity, Family, And The Addictive Job
• 8:56 Training Cultures And Wellness Units
• 12:25 Role Loss And Isolation After Leaving
• 16:05 Health Risks, Early Retirements, And Policy Gaps
• 20:25 Launching A Retiree Peer And Mentor Network
• 25:20 Side Hustles, Secondary Trauma, And Corrections
• 28:40 Group Insights On Retirement Shock

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:01

Welcome to Resilience Development and Action with Steve Beast Home. This is the podcast dedicated to first responder mental health, helping police, higher, EMS, dispatchers, and paramedics create better growth environments for themselves and their teams. Let's get started.

SPEAKER_01: 0:29

You know you've heard me talk about this before. Get free.ai. Great for your note-taking, good for your transcript, good for your goals, good for everything that you do on a HIPAA-compliant nature. And if you use code C50 at checkout, you will get$50 off your first month. And also if you get a whole year, you will also get 10% off the whole year. But getfree.ai has freed me to do more things with my life, including work on other passions. So get free to do your notes, get freed from doing your goals. Get free.ai with code Steve50 to get$50 off your first month. Well, hi everyone. And this is not going to be a new numbered episode because I'm just having a great time with Joe. I want people to really uh go see uh Tribezotis, all the stuff that he's doing. And we were having a conversation like 30 minutes is not enough. You'll have to come back because I'm just we're gonna blow this one out too. But one of the things we talked about, and I think it's important to think about, is the retirement for our guys. Yeah. Because it's like I'm not saying that business doesn't have that, and I'm not trying to put down any other businesses. However, I think that the the stress of that role loss for people is humongous. The lack of support is sometimes a problem, too.

SPEAKER_02: 1:47

Well, uh, you know, as you know and I know, and again, my wheelhouse is drug and alcohol, suicide education, pair support. You you guys are trauma therapists, you guys do with the grief. When we come into this field, most of us, you know, when you go to an academy, for some people it it's traumatic. Um I came out of the military. Um it becomes a you know, this team and then this family. Um, I can honestly say a lot of the folks that joined the military had didn't have a great family upbringing, right? That's why they join. Right. And then we become part of that. Why do people join gangs? It's their family, right? And then you get the team aspect of it, which we love. Right. And let's not kid ourselves. There's some of the research that me and my partner did is that the job is addicting, it's sexual. And if you're not, if you're not, if you can't understand that you don't know what the job is. You've never been in a you've never been, you for the firefighters when they call out a work and fire, um, it's the it's it's it's it's the biggest orgasm going. For me, it's the shorts-fired call. Uh every night it's a different, it's the greatest show, greatest show in town. So now, when you're running at that level, and you worked hard for eight, I think the academies are 34 weeks now, went through with 16. And you know, military police school back then, I think my it was 14 weeks. We did basic and AIT all at once. So when you look at the level of training that we got, and we work our rear ends, you know, you're talking taking a test, passing the audible boards. You know, you work your rear end to get to that academy date, right? And then some academies are stronger than we know the Mass Day Police. They their standard is like the Marine Corps. They do a phenomenal job. Then you get the Boston PD, which I'm gonna go on the limb and say it's the best academy in the country. Boston PD teaches their cops, unlike anyone else, how to be that community interface. Um, I wish everybody can go every city cop can go to Boston. They do that good of a job. I I've always been a fan of the work that Boston does and the state police, but different roles. Totally different roles.

SPEAKER_01: 3:56

Different, but you know, you need to have different because of the training, it's specialized for that. Like a steady is way different.

SPEAKER_02: 4:03

One one one trooper, one riot, they're out there with no backup. Right. You know, it's it's just they did and they do a great job.

SPEAKER_01: 4:08

Being on the side of the road on when you're on 90 or 95 is a different ball game.

SPEAKER_02: 4:12

Yeah, you're human trafficking. Yeah, and and they do good in their service units do a great job. Their wellness unit is phenomenal. Um, they do great work, uh, they've come a long way. They do a work couple. But what I'm getting at, so we go all this stuff. Now you come in the job and you become part of this cohesive unit. Right. And you're sold it's family, and you got the blue line, and you're going to the wakes, and you're going to the funerals, and at any minute it's gone. And when it's gone, I've been there, folks, it's gone. And you you when you're there, you're a guest, when you're gone, you're a pest. And all of a sudden you're at home. You know, the week before you're chasing bad guys, and now in my case, I was a stay-at-home dad using duct tape to put my kid's diaper on because I would my wife was doing all that. Yeah. And and now I'm isolating. Nobody's calling you. It's not that they don't want to call you, they don't want to catch what you have. It's called retirement. Right. And you're isolating, and you know how self-medicating with alcohol was my thing. And you're not talking to someone I was the hypocrite because I was the stressed guy. We called them back then. And this is what happens. You lose your identity because you're souls, because it is, I don't care. People, oh, it's not your identity, it's just a job. That's bullshit. Correct. It it is bullshit. And you have to, it's a grieving process. And when you leave that profession, if you don't walk talk to a Steve or a Hayden or a Kathy or Jane or an Amy, you're you're gonna get in trouble. Or a pair. And this is what we've seen when we start looking at our suicides and we start looking at our substance abuse, our highest population right now, the ones that we can track, um, our cardio issues, our stress are huge, cancer issues. We look at our retirees, and our retirees, we're not talking the guy that makes it to 65, we're talking the Joe Razutis that are 45, you got to leave the job. We're talking the officer that gets hurt in the line of duty with two years on the job. We're talking these people. Um now you get a physical injury, and now the Commonwealth, we've got to change the laws. We're we're told we can only make so much money. Right. And and now we're we're we're penalizing us for doing our jobs. So this whole thing going on that we we we pushed away. Right. We pushed. We didn't want to know it. And thank God I get some good managers, and Tom Truckle being one. Um, I wanted to do this, and Jane wanted to talk about the retirement stuff for years. Hayden, I know Hayden's been on Hayden's, I swear I got my help was Hayden. Um so finally, you know, um, like I said, Dr. Otama in California, with first respond to wellness, he does a 30-day program. So I said, we got to do better here in Mass. So we just rolled out a program at NEBPA. Um, we're gonna have an association of retirees, and we're gonna have mentors. Um, they're all peer-trained, number one, to the state's standard, uh to the Mitchell model. Um, some of them are gonna be recovered. We we also rolled out a recovery coach program just for fresh responders. And these are peers um that have been successful in retirement. Yeah. That do well business and whatnot. And we're gonna offer uh an association where once a quarter they can come in have lunch and we can network. Um we're gonna offer individual counseling through Jane and myself, where um if they want to talk to somebody, they can talk to LCSW or they can talk to me on the drug and alcohol through the union. And we're gonna also offer that peer mentoring. So there's a couple of phases, and we just rolled it out, and we're in the process of putting it out with the NABPA. And um, I think it's gonna work. I think it's got legs because when we when they leave the union, we they they leave. Now we're bringing them back in and say, listen, you you still got a lot of value. Right. And they can help us raise, you know, do awareness, um, and just checking in. Um, so I think it's gonna be a good thing it's a good thing, and it's something we had to go do. Um substance abuse goes hand to hand when you isolate. And then people think they're gonna do the geo geographical cure, they go to Florida. Yeah, you know, and what do they do down there? They go back on the police department. Yeah, it's insane, right?

SPEAKER_01: 8:15

You know, I know I met a guy last year when I was in Florida, and he's like, Oh, I used to be a cop up because I told him I was from Mass, and like, name me where you live. I'm like, you're not gonna know where that is. He's like, try me. And I told him. And he goes, Oh, yeah, I was a Haveral cop for I'm like, oh. I was like, that's why you look old.

SPEAKER_02: 8:31

Again, when I do I, you know who does, you know, the firefighters, um, the corrections offices, um it's it's every it's everyone, the dispatchers. Police have the hottest time. Um fire service, they always used to have a side hustle. Right. We used to hire them because cops can't bang a nail. Um and then what happened is uh they all go out and become paramedics, and now they're working their side hustle and they're seeing trauma, trauma, trauma, trauma. Right. And then they wonder why they're we're having a problem in the fire service. Um corrections is the unsung heroes. I love these guys, I could never do the job. I crapped my parents the first time I went to Bridgewater Correctional Facility. Uh I don't know how they do it. I'm glad they get a 20-year retirement. My boss, Tom Treco, as you know, was the director. Uh I we don't do enough for those poor people. The county corrections are a little bit better because they go out in the community and they work the road a little bit and they get they do a lot with the community. And I like the work they're doing on recovery, but even them, when they leave there, um debt networking seems to go away.

SPEAKER_01: 9:37

Well, you know, this is a couple of things that I want to mention. So, shout out to my group on I have my group at 7 p.m. every Tuesday. Yeah, absolutely. I'd say half of them are retired, and half of them, like when I told them it's gonna hit you with a ton of bricks, now like after six months, they go, You aren't kidding. And I'm like, Yeah, no kidding, because that's this, this is your role for like I don't care what people say, it's not the same. If you were like a CEO, you can't carry that elsewhere. You don't stop being a cop, you don't stop being a firefighter, an EMT, or paramedic, or a dispatcher for that matter. And I think that that's the change in role. And one of the things that I've faced a lot, and I think this is the other harder conversation we need to have, is some of these guys they get so down on themselves, not only do they get substance abuse, but what happens with substance abuse? Now you start thinking, what the fuck am I doing here? Should I kill myself? And suicide's a big problem, too. Huge. I think we couldn't talk about the medical. I mean, I've had guys like six months out of retirement fucking drop that.

SPEAKER_02: 10:31

We just had that beautiful individual, the chief, right next door. I mean, retired a couple of years, and we see that all the time.

SPEAKER_01: 10:39

Because they're not ready, and that's because and some of them like you know, like they get to a point where they don't feel good about themselves and this and that. There's I would love to talk about that in the retirement world, but I also think it's very important to start breaking that stigma on the level of correction is another passion of mine. Yeah, I know you're same with my partner Jane. She's just I that's my that's my peep peeps. I think I've been to every facility in Massachusetts except a couple. Um, but I think that what the bottom line is, I I was the therapist, just for the record. Uh but uh all joking aside, let's go back to suicide. I don't know where to start because I would say to you that if we're not making it easy through administration, through even anything else, I see it all the time. You gotta you peer support might be enough. It's maybe a shameful thing to go to on-site, and now they're like, Well, what am I gonna do? And because of the substance, you lack judgment, and what who has the best drugs and or weapons available to them is first responders.

SPEAKER_02: 11:44

Yeah, and we we know the statistics from the VA. Some will go back and forth. My statistics, I usually use Karen Solman from Blue Help. Linda Kakulis is doing great work. I hope you're on their badge. And but you know, I'm gonna say actually, I was just honored to ask to take part, and I can't, uh, in a um think tank with DOJ. They invited me down to Maryland. My wife's gonna be in France, and I I really I'm gonna I want to go down there just to be honored to be part of a conversation for the national law enforcement. For safe leo. If you don't know Safe Leo, uh fire police, go online, get involved with it. It's for nothing. 100%. Safe Leo program is is I've been involved with the gecko. Some of the resources are there. It's for nothing. DOJ puts it a great product out. So I think, you know, let's talk about suicide. Let's talk about a we did a uh well, you guys in the psychobabble world called uh hypothesis. And I love talking about this because I don't, you know, we're we're up at on site one day, and I work with two amazing civilian therapists, and they come from a different world a little bit. And and my I lost my best friend, I consider one of our good solid friends, my boss. There's police suicide. I've lost my first suicide, it was a kid I put in the National Guard as a recruiter, and I was a full-timer for the Guard MP company, and my best friend was on Revere PD and responded to our best friend that I put in, uh Brian Chate, God rest the soul, he committed suicide. So it was my first exposure. I had to, and what bothered me with that was I had to go out and investigate that as one of my own. My friend I was a 21, 23-year-old kid working for the guard. And I remember, because I have a learning disability, I was more upset with my boss red penning. I I flipped brain, Brian to brain, and he went up. Well, no, my best friend just died of a suicide, and you're worried about a typo and a fucking type, you know. And this is what what stuck with me, right? And I pushed that one down. Um, so let's talk about suicide. One thing we realized, me and my partner, Jane, we were at OnSight, I said, you know, let's I come from a police background. Let's do talk about a profile. You guys call it hypothesis. So when we think, you know, if back in the day we had the three B's, remember the three B's? We can't politically correct would be, you know, we'll we'll call it, you know, relationships, financial, and substance. Okay. But I remember the three B's. Okay, the three B's. Now, that was told to me, Kid, you know, as an old time, kid, you know, be careful of these. It happened to me in my career, right? So now if we realized, and I was talking when you're a practitioner, what do you see? Okay, we're on to something. So we we started a relationship group up at on site, and we told Hayden about what our what our work was. We're looking at this. He said, Well, put it on you know, paper. I brought it to the and it was the FOP Wellness Conference number two, and I ran it through Dr. Coughlin, I ran it, you know, ran it by Schlosser, just the best of best, Sherry. Like, yeah, you know, how'd you come up with that? I work with this pretty you know wild clinician seen this. So then we started asking in the group, and we said, Hey, listen, has anybody in this group, the relationship group, had these things? And then have you ever had thoughts of suicide? And out of the group out of uh the six that would be there, three, and then we'd have one or two that actually had a plan. So now we know we're on to something. So now we bring it to the field and like, hey, listen, even on your end, you know, you're talking to a first responder, and if you see um that they're gambling a lot, you know, which is gambling is uh Dave Nagel, great guy. If you ever want to research somebody who state rep that does great work on gambling, lost it all. And he and he, you know, gambling's a new thing that we're seeing. So you'll see all these things if you have if you go outside your marriage, like a lot of us unfortunately did do.

SPEAKER_01: 15:35

And it's a stereotype for a reason.

SPEAKER_02: 15:37

Then it happens, is then there's the the hamster will. Then you feel guilt, you self-medicate, right? So you know where I'm going. You start going to this the financial piece, then you're at the point where there's no hope, and then you're sitting there looking at the gun and the rope. And so it's it didn't take a rocket scientist from Revere to figure that this is common sense. If we see these indicators, right, we need to say something or step in. Then what we figured, okay, let's start training people up on QPR, you know, qualify, persuade, and re-r uh refer. Simple three things. If you get a chance to do that training, it's the best in the world. Just identify these people, you're not ratting them out. Talk to them. Hey, you're having a hard time, you're out of the bed, what's going on? Why don't you go talk to somebody? Well, I'm afraid to because now we've got the post in Massachusetts. We're gonna worry about the cops losing their licenses.

SPEAKER_01: 16:30

Right.

SPEAKER_02: 16:30

You know, think oh we got Dr. Bluestone, she she understands it. She's amazing, she absolutely is. And uh hopefully she'll be at the meeting next week. She gets it. But I can't say you know, for the rest of them, you know what's going on. So if we could see those indicators, we can start to address them. So we did because the voice of the union, a strong union, and with Tom, uh, we're educating all our presidents and reps. If you have somebody go out on internal affairs, you get somebody going out injured. Make contact with them, refer them to us. Just talk to them. If you see if you see somebody that's drinking too much, don't just think it's part of the culture. Just say something.

SPEAKER_01: 17:15

It used to be part of the culture. It still is, unfortunately. No, but I mean I'm talking about not talking about it. Oh, don't talk about it.

SPEAKER_02: 17:23

Yeah, and and and I think one good thing that Sherry Martin brought to the table with the FOP was the wellness consultations. Um, but we're culturally competent, right? But you gotta you can't just send them to like docker the blocks. No. And you can't because they're just checking the blocks. I know Tom Greenhall is working with the post to come up with a standardization for mass. But it again, it shouldn't where it works, it shouldn't be something that you need a person to understand how to do them. You just can't go to a big box and have them go to a therapist that doesn't understand the culture. You're just wasting time. I think you have to have a Steve or a Fred or a Bill to have a relationship with the agency. The fire service does it very well. Um their PS support model is they and I'm trained in it. I represent a lot of fire departments. I like their model, which is I'm trained in Mitchell. I like the idea of going to the kitchen table and building a rapport.

SPEAKER_01: 18:22

What do people want? They want the rapport. They don't want, like, you know, that's the other part I explained to some of my fellow therapists that sometimes struggle with this, and I'm being generous here. Like, you gotta meet them where they're at. You don't need to be sit, like, they don't want a clipboard, they don't want you to write notes every other day. They want to make sure that you're just paying attention to them and they just want to get it off their chest. And they don't especially don't want, oh my god, give me a couple minutes. But we've seen that, haven't we? Oh, more than you know, man.

SPEAKER_02: 18:53

Oh, don't the other thing, you know, and I'm gonna probably get a lot of flack for this, and I'm gonna go right to the belly of the beast. You know, we're we're putting thousands and thousands of dollars into CIT for the community, which is great, right?

SPEAKER_01: 19:04

Right.

SPEAKER_02: 19:05

We have chiefs that spend more money on challenge coins and coffee cups than they do on mental health. Right. Or or you know, plaques for their office. But here's the thing, the CIT clinicians, okay, they shouldn't be talking to your first responders. They're not Steve, they're not the riches, they're not the Amy's, they're not the, you know, the the that broke their chops in. And nothing against them, but they've been a pain in my rear end out there. And because we had one that interceded into a police suit uh officer suicide and she was traumatized. Now I gotta deal with her. Okay. So these chiefs that are thinking they're saving a buck. The other thing is they work for the administration, and you're making a big mistake talking because I'm not saying they're gonna go back, but find somebody that knows what they're doing, do your homework.

SPEAKER_01: 19:53

I mean, you you know the you know the rumor mill stories. Oh, yeah, right. You know, tell you know, telegraph, telecop, telephone. Firefighter? I mean, that's what you gotta do, and the rumor mill starts. So if your clinician is within those walls, you're already screwing yourself over.

SPEAKER_02: 20:07

No, no, we're hired. Like my private practice, we're hired to the unions most part, and we're departments to hire us. But one thing our departments do, we make it perfectly clear that money will go through the union. And the I have some great chiefs on the fire strivers because I can't represent other police departments with any EBPA. My fire chiefs are amazing. I do have one pay in the rear end up on our shore that is getting involved with the union, but we we try to put out his noise. Um and we've addressed it to the P uh PPFM en masse. But again, they want control, but most of my chiefs are really good about getting us the funding and then giving it right back to the union. Uh a good example of that is two chiefs. I I think uh Chief Buxton up in Nashville does a great job, and I think Chief Granary down in uh Chelsea fire where they just got the funding and said, listen, here to the union, go out and do this. If whatever you need, I'll get the time off. Um, and I think that's huge.

SPEAKER_01: 21:05

But I'm gonna interrupt you because I want to get back to the suicide stuff because I think it's important to keep keep that going. Having the time off is essential, having someone to check on you is even better.

SPEAKER_02: 21:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 21:18

And having continuous treatment. Huge. To me, like one of the things that um I want to best admit here, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, because you're you're a former police officer. I have to have arguments with some police officers. Therapy does not work does not work if you get four sessions and you're suddenly good. No. Therapy is a long-term process because what I tell people is that if it took you 20 years to get at this point, you're giving me four weeks to fix this shit. And I tell people that's just not possible. And you need to like, I'm not saying be in therapy every week for the rest of your life. That's not necessarily what I'm saying. But I think that you need to go with like this was the this was a symptomology for what you came for about something deeper. None of my first responders ever came in, and that's what we worked on. We worked on other stuff, then we got to that, or we started with that, and then we discovered 14 other things.

SPEAKER_02: 22:12

I work with a therapist, Tracy Parsons, who's one of the best in the business, yeah, every week. I'm not afraid to say it. Yeah. And I have to doing the work that I do, but I want to. And she's a first responder therapist. And I I've got so much shit from my past and so much shit that I'm dealing with, and the stuff that's in front. I I think society's starting to realize that what we're asking our first responders to do when you pull back and look into it, how can we not have them have good mental health? You know, and that you know, you you we we we bitch and moan, hey, we want the officers to be well, we want the you know, posters like we would but the first time these officers ask for help, well, I can't afford them to go for 30 days. Or I I don't that's drives me out of my mind. If you here's the scenario if you break your leg, we give them the time off. If you say I have a mental health injury, all of a sudden it's a a a chore to get them the help. Or we put them in a box and look, oh, he went to see Dr. Sumarov, he went to see the crazy doc. It's insane. It drives me nuts.

SPEAKER_01: 23:18

What drives me even more nuttier is that if you break your leg, no one ever says I want a third opinion.

SPEAKER_02: 23:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 23:26

Mental health, like, yeah, you know, I'm I'm I really need the time off for mental health. Are you sure you're just looking for time off to go do and then there's this why why would someone make that like if they had the balls to go see you and say that they have this issue, why are you denying what they're saying? Is there a manipulator here and there? Of course there is. That's in every fucking place, though. It's not, but why don't you take them for their word instead of saying, are you really okay? Do you really need 30 days? Oh, you know what? I hear that alcohol dependence, once 72 hours go by, you're physically like that that's gone. So you can come back to work in about a week.

SPEAKER_02: 24:03

If we want to stop, but we're never gonna stop suicide, but we're gonna try. Yeah. We know in my profession with the drug and alcohol, you know, I'm gonna say 80% of my people that come to me, they're drinking because of a trauma. Right. Or they had a trauma as a kid and it's been as a big word, acerpated by the stuff they see on the I get the big words once in a while. Um I don't doubt it. Because the stuff that they see on the job, right? And we're sold a bill of goods, the alcohol, because it's legal, right? Right. And for a lot of people, alcohol has helped them get over certain problems. But you're playing Russian roulette with this product. Um, and if alcohol came to the table now, it'd never be legalized, right? We know that. And then what we do is we're sending them to dark in the box, who's putting them on Adderall, and he they think they're doing the right thing, they're putting them on the segments, but they're not telling them you shouldn't be drinking with this. And now when we get it, and and we have to sift through what they're on, and we say, listen, this is what works. You're gonna be in some pe some people will be in recovery the rest of their life, some people 80% will just need awareness, right? And then you get the people that will get sober by themselves, you know. Then the ones I have to, you know, we work with me. I'm an alcoholic, I go to meetings every day. Um I'm you know, I'm in recovery every day. But at least offer it, but it has to be palatable. That's the scenario.

SPEAKER_01: 25:26

And that's the that's the issue. I got consulted for uh from Mass State Police to create like a suicide warning checklist. Yep. And uh they use it, which is great, but I also know that it was hush hush. Sure. And I'm not like I maybe I'm calling out Mass State Police, but that's not my goal here. No, my goal is why is it hush hush? When we have what what's the likelihood like likelihood of suicide, like 54% more likely for first responders? I I that's the last side I said.

SPEAKER_02: 25:59

Well, more enforcement, anyways.

SPEAKER_01: 26:00

Law law enforcement, I think that it fires like in the 50s, so probably it's got an issue. And you you don't corrections. But you're gonna go, is it really an issue? Let's oh, can you create a list? Short, don't tell anyone. Why are we like why is it still a big secret in this field? I don't understand.

SPEAKER_02: 26:20

Why can't somebody come back to work? I understand if somebody has thought, you know, uh or tried, we can get them to the point you break your leg, we can fix them to come back. I'd rather have an officer go see a therapist than somebody not go see a therapist to work with. Right. Because I know that they're dealing with this shit, because guess what? More shit's gonna be piled on, more shit's gonna be piled on. That's a healthy thing. The feds are doing that. I got a friend on the human trafficking task force every so many weeks she has to see it, you know, somebody.

SPEAKER_01: 26:46

I know someone at the FBI, they're not my client, but they exactly do that. And I think that that's exactly what the point is.

SPEAKER_02: 26:54

If we're gonna go after suicide, we have to have a real conversation. And the conversation that a lot of people don't want to talk about, and it's a whole nother subject. The chiefs of police, the fire does a better job. We have to have them understand it's not about you. Okay? This, you know, again, I can go on.

SPEAKER_01: 27:11

Well, forget about the town managers, but the town managers are a whole nother.

SPEAKER_02: 27:16

I don't want to get into politics, but I'm dealing with that, with that one fighter pop, and I'm not sure with this, this, this assistant chief that's just horrible. Um, and again, if that is allowed to happen where they keep trying to intercede in the peer support and the wellness, and they want to do it their way, they're gonna have blood on their hands. And I'm the people are gonna I'm gonna get yelled at for saying this, but it's the truth.

SPEAKER_01: 27:44

But I think that that's this is what I'm saying. Let's forget about silos and let's break some veils here. I'm done with this veil crap. And the bottom line for me is that I I've heard someone say to me, and this is uh I had a private conversation, so I don't want to put him on the spot. The chief says to me, Well, I don't want to give him his gun back because he was suicidal. I said, Okay, and when someone on on site is slightly suicidal, you'll do everything to review uh uh like get away from a pink paper. Yeah. And if they have guns, you're not gonna be picking on them. So you treat the community differently than you treat yours because it's liability.

SPEAKER_02: 28:19

There's a time and place, the reason why over the first 40 hours we take the firearm is issues. But I guess that makes sense to me. But why the constitutional rights, number one, number two, is they could be f they're not they're just dented, they're not broke.

SPEAKER_01: 28:34

They said something and they're gonna pay the price, it makes no sense to me. But anyway, we're all but you know, Joe, we're gonna come back.

SPEAKER_02: 28:41

This is great stuff, and I'm glad it's an honest conversation.

SPEAKER_01: 28:44

You know what one of the things before I go, and I hope I I I my my conclusion is gonna be this with you. I I don't have a next episode, so this is gonna be a conversation. Thank you for everything you do, number one. But more importantly, it's been a while since I've been so connected and animated with someone who has similar ideas. And you know, I'm passionate about this. I hope you can see that, and most people know, but you are too, and that's why we gotta work. Back at you, Bello. It's an honor, my friend. I'll I'll talk to you soon because we have business to do, but you'll come back on a podcast. Thanks, guys.

SPEAKER_00: 29:21

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