E.245 Inside The Gate: Vetting Care For First Responders

The hardest part of getting help often isn’t the therapy—it’s knowing who to trust when everything feels at risk. We sit down with treatment navigator Nikki Mason to open the black box of first responder mental health: how to spot programs that truly understand police, fire, EMS, and dispatch, why families are the first to notice cracks, and what happens when a call for help goes unanswered. Nikki shares a clear rule that guides her work—if she wouldn’t send a loved one, she won’t send a client—and explains how on‑site vetting, consistent follow‑up, and cultural fluency separate real care from marketing.

We dig into the stigma that makes substance use easier to admit than trauma, the fear of losing a weapon or job after disclosure, and the outdated responses that taught generations to stay silent. Together we make the case for earlier touchpoints—peer support, wellness visits, and brief counseling framed as stress exposure care—so acute stress doesn’t calcify into chronic PTSD. Families take center stage here: the spouse who sees sleep erode, the adult child who senses withdrawal, the parent who hears the edge in a voice. Nikki lays out practical ways to nudge without cornering, from third‑party introductions to privacy‑respecting consults that lower defenses and build momentum.

This conversation is a field guide for anyone navigating help in uniform or at home with someone who is. You’ll learn what questions to ask programs about trauma modalities, co‑occurring care, confidentiality, and return‑to‑work coordination; why answering the phone at the first ring can be life‑saving; and how leaders can normalize support without punishment. If you serve, love someone who serves, or manage a team that does, you’ll walk away with next steps you can take today.

To find Nikki Mason, please visit Granite Recovery Centers - Rally Point Program: Detox, residential, PHP/IOP with lodging up in scenic New Hampshire, all in network with insurance
Also visit Open Sky - Crisis Intervention Training: 40 hour certificate training for law enforcement & first responders

DeemedFit: First Responder Owned
We are a first responder owned company looking to get first responders in the best mental shape.

Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Welcome to Resilience Development in Action with Steve Bisson. This is the podcast dedicated to first responder mental health, helping police, fire, EMS, dispatchers, and paramedics create better growth environments for themselves and their teams. Let's get started.

Introducing Guest Nikki Mason

SPEAKER_03 0:29

Hi, and welcome to Resilience Development in Action. This is episode 245. In episode 244, I talked about my survey and what I got as feedback, what I'm gonna do about it. So hope you listen to that and you really enjoy it. But today is a great day because I just went to visit this great treatment center. And I really enjoyed being there. And I know someone who's lived around here. I've known her for a long time, but we haven't had a chance to sit down and do this podcast. And I'm hoping that you guys enjoy her as much as I do. She is always there whenever I call. And she, you know, she really is someone who can help the first responder world a lot better than many, many treaters I've seen. And I'm gonna keep it as nicely as I can, and that's what I'm gonna say here. Uh Nikki Mason, welcome to uh Resilience Development in Action.

SPEAKER_01 1:20

Thank you. Thanks for having me. I'm really excited that we get the chance to sit down and chat.

SPEAKER_03 1:24

I'm just excited to speak to you because we we tend to like run by each other.

SPEAKER_02 1:29

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:30

You know, I was down, I was up in uh New Hampshire at the center, and we ended up having a great time, but we were like, hey, it's so great to talk to you. Bye. And then we haven't talked until pretty much right now.

SPEAKER_01 1:40

Yes. Yes, it's busy.

SPEAKER_03 1:42

That's what happens with these these relationships you make in this field, in my opinion. But what do I know? Well, I feel like I know you, but I think maybe the audience doesn't know who you are. So you want to do a quick introduction as to who you are?

Community Impact And No‑BS Vetting

SPEAKER_01 1:56

Yeah, absolutely. Nikki Mason. I work right now with Granite Recovery Centers as a business development rep. So doing treatment navigation, helping people get into treatment for mental health and addiction services.

SPEAKER_03 2:10

Just that.

SPEAKER_01 2:14

That's that's the biggest part of what I do day to day. Yeah, but I'm also a mom. I have two little kids at home, which keeps me pretty pretty busy and tying up the rest of the time. And then also, you know, just involved in the local community here. I live in Millbury and do a lot with the schools and Girl Scouts and just kind of being a resource wherever I can be a resource.

SPEAKER_03 2:37

I think she's selling herself short. I'm gonna tell you guys this woman has been involved when we say in the community, you know, this is a podcast that goes across the world essentially. Not just your community, but people in Massachusetts and New Hampshire, and I know people in Vermont. We just had a conversation about someone in Maryland that knows you too. And uh, Hannah, if you're listening to it, that's like a little confident about you. We'll give you the funny story that goes with that afterwards. But no, but I think that what you gotta you gotta realize is that you've really made an impact because I mean, you know, there's a few people that I know call you regularly, and those are the people who, you know, they'll they'll call BS right away. And I know you're the type of person I'll call BS right away. So you're really selling yourself short as to how much work you actually do in the community, never mind as a mom. Yeah. Um, and a Girl Scout leader and all that fun stuff.

SPEAKER_01 3:30

Yeah. Well, thank you. And I think it's important to really recognize, you know, the BS and and call it out. You know, I think that's a big part of what I do on a day-to-day, just kind of in working with various treatment centers, working with different individual clinicians, kind of any resource that you could think of or find. You know, I like to go and check it out. I like to see what it's like. Would I go there? Would I send my loved one there? You know, if the answer is no, probably not going to work with them.

SPEAKER_03 3:59

Right. And I think the vetting process is so important. I think that what people don't realize is that the particularly this like I think that in the civilian world, we need specific places where we can say yay or nay. But the first responder world to me is even more hard and more difficult to handle. And having people who say that they're experts in first responder stuff versus reality are two different things.

SPEAKER_01 4:24

Yes. That's just my experience. Yeah, I think so. And I think on the civilian side as well, but especially for first responders, I think it's very delicate because if you know we put our name on someone and I put my Nikki Mason stamp of approval and I say, hey, you can go here. This place is gonna take great care of you. And then they get there and it's a disaster, we lost them. And then not only did we lose them, they're not gonna probably participate in future treatment. But word travels fast, and then you know, we can lose other people as well that could have potentially gone into treatment, but now their hackles are up and they're not really willing.

Trust, Referrals, And Changing Programs

SPEAKER_03 5:00

And I you know as much as I do to business world, right? It's if you do if you like some place, you might tell three to four people. But if you dislike a place, you'll tell nine to what, twelve? Is that something like that, yeah. Many more. I don't have an MBA, I'm just some like therapist, right? But yeah, I think that that's absolutely true. And that's why, like, for me, whenever I make a referral, it's usually someone I met, someone I went to, someone I sent someone who I trust. But I cannot make a referral though because it's like you said, it's the Nikki Mason stamp, it's the Steve Bisson stamp. It's like you you gotta be able to talk about it intelligently, or else it's a waste of time.

SPEAKER_01 5:39

Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, we're fortunate that we've built trust, you know, throughout the community and people trust you, people do trust me, you know, and to keep that going, you have to just keep being honest. And, you know, places can change, people can change. I've had places in the past that I was like, maybe that's not my favorite. And things have turned around, and now, yeah, I absolutely would send somebody there, and vice versa. So I think it's important kind of find the connections and then maintain the connections as well.

SPEAKER_03 6:08

And that's the hardest part, right? I think that, you know, you know, part of part of what being on this podcast, I tell people it's for me to remember who my resources are. I really think that that's important, but it's really getting those connections. I mean, I try to text, you know, certain people. Joe who's been in in studio right here with me, and I've texted them a few times just to check in. And I got the whole behind the badge and beyond group. I got you. Hannah, once in a while I'll throw in a little, hey, how are you, type of thing. But how do you keep up with all that? Because to me, that's the hardest part of my job anyway, is to keep up all those great relationships. I mean, I even think about what I do for a podcast and Dominique was on the other side that people won't see, but I know her and I truly love what the work she's done. She's done really good, but I barely talked to her. How do you keep it up? How do you keep up all these great things?

SPEAKER_01 7:02

It's a lot of driving around in my car and talking on the phone. You know, I when I first started working at Granite, I remember my boss told me I was gonna have two jobs. The first one would be to go out and make the phone ring, and the second one would be to answer the phone when it rings. And that's really what I do. You know, it's a lot of outreach, it's a lot of, you know, physically showing up at places, you know, finding time to just sit down and and chat with people, even if it's 10 minutes, 15 minutes, just that kind of constant outreach and follow-up. And then I think, you know, on the flip side of that, that important piece of responding to people and and being there when they reach out.

Relationship Maintenance And Showing Up

SPEAKER_03 7:42

Yeah, I mean, that's the important part, right? You gotta be able to answer the phone. Just had that conversation this morning with another place where they're like, well, we don't always answer the phone. I'm like, and that is probably why you're not recognized as someone who works in this field.

SPEAKER_01 7:58

Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's, you know, it's one of those things where it's something you have to recognize is it could potentially be life-saving. You know, somebody on the other end of the line, they're not calling because it's their best day. And even if it's a social worker at a hospital or at another treatment center, like they're representing that person. You know, so being available and and even if I can't help them right away, at least pointing them to a resource that can. And I think, you know, in my household, it's become very somewhat funny in that anytime my phone rings, my kids will go into like this panic mode of like someone needs help, everyone be quiet. Mom needs to help someone. And it's, you know, it's usually like a spam call or something to that effect, not that serious.

SPEAKER_03 8:42

But it's have you checked your life insurance lately?

unknown 8:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:47

It's just been kind of cute to see that trickle down, you know, to the next generation.

SPEAKER_03 8:52

Yeah, well, I my my daughters have grown through that too. And what I find funny today is that they ask me if I can go downstairs. So they don't go quiet. They're like, can you go downstairs? We're watching something. So it's a little different nowadays. They get a little older, they have a different point of view. Yeah. But they're used to it. And sometimes I'll take a phone call in the car for XYZ reason. And my daughters know not to talk, and most of them put their earbuds in so I can have a conversation.

SPEAKER_01 9:25

Yeah. Yeah, we get big on headphones in my house. Some of the conversations aren't necessarily ones I want to have in front of them, but necessary, you know, to have in the moment. So we get creative and and we figure it out. It reminds me too. I mean, growing up, I come from a first responder family. So my dad was a retired state police lieutenant, my mom was a nurse. Now that, you know, me and my siblings are older, my sister, you know, is a BCBA, my brother is a nurse in the ICU for pediatrics. I think that lifestyle, I guess, uh has a different flavor to it, you know, at home as well.

Answering The Phone Can Save Lives

SPEAKER_03 10:04

Yeah. And I think it's funny because all I can think of is a nurse and a police officer. Can you more be more stereotypical? Oh, yeah. But anyway, just wanted to make sure that sorry, I'm sure they're happy. I'm just saying I that when you said that, I'm like, yeah, I've never heard that story before. Classic tale. Yeah. Well, I think it's the other part too, is the funny part is that I didn't need to tell you what I meant that as a obviously we're laughing here, and we know it's not it's not a stereotype if it doesn't come from something. But you know, you have your connection with your dad as a with the first responder stuff. Do you have any like besides him or maybe what he's been through or something else, what has made your connection with first responder so important to you and continue to work in this field?

SPEAKER_01 10:52

I think being in just kind of the social work human services world for a long time, I was working in programs that were working with higher acuity clients. When I kind of first started my career, I was working in juvenile detention centers, I was working in locked inpatient psychiatric units, and seeing the trauma that occurs day in and day out in these places, you know, had really gotten me thinking about what's on the other side of that. And, you know, all the helpers are helping day in and day out, but who's helping them? You know, and then going into more community-based work, you know, again, just seeing first responders coming in, law enforcement coming in, EMS coming in, you know, to some pretty treacherous situations. And that's a Tuesday, you know? Right. But who's who's on the backside of that and who's really providing that care? You know, and unfortunately, a lot of the times there's not somebody or something there as a safety net.

Family Life In A Helper Household

SPEAKER_03 12:02

Well, or you have someone who doesn't know what to do with that. You know, and I think that that's the stuff that is very difficult with you talked about having, you know, your dad there as a retired lieutenant. Did I get the title right? I'm not good I'm not good with titles. So yeah, well, you know, when you have an like you you have that like hands-on experience, which is hard to explain to people. I think that that's the other part of being like culturally aware, is the word I've come through with a couple of people. Because you you can't understand unl unless you've been there and lived it, in my opinion. You know, I I used to think that that was BS because I've never had schizophrenia, but I can teach and I can treat people with schizophrenia. But in the first responder world, I think there's a lot of value in having this hands-on, you know, family, friends, neighbors married to it. I mean, we've had different par uh different people on that had that. Just a quick break, guys. I'm gonna talk about a new product that I really like. I actually bought one of their hoodies, it was a amazing, and I really enjoyed wearing it. Uh, this episode is gonna be supported by Deemed Fit. Deemed Fit is a first responder-owned activ active wear and leisure brand. And one thing that I genuinely like about them is that they support different causes. I actually gave a few people I know who work with first responders, our nonprofits, their name to uh Deemed Fit, and I know they're talking to them. They do a lot of initiatives and collections that are based on mental health for first responders. And if you go there right now and you buy anything, including the mental health support stuff, uh use the code RDA15. That's right, R D A 15 to get 15% off on the any products that you get. Again, it's called R D A 15. Go to deanfit.com, D-E-E, M-E-D, F-I-T.com, and enjoy 15% off at checkout to save. Now, right back to the episode. Does that experience also change how you work? Does that change how you treat others, or does it just like make it another mm-ha moment for you?

SPEAKER_01 14:11

I think it changes the way that I can relate to first responder families for sure. I think, you know, some of the people that I've spoken with, a lot of times when I'm getting phone calls for somebody, hey, this person, you know, needs help, they need a higher level of care, they need detox, residential, you know, whatever it may be, I've found that I'm often not talking to that individual directly. I'm often talking to a spouse, an adult child, somebody that's close to them that is really kind of driving the bus in terms of them getting some additional help and treatment. You know, we often too will see chiefs, lieutenant, you know, if something's happened at work and people are kind of required, you know, being voluntoled for some treatment, you know, it even then it's usually that kind of outside peripheral contact. And I think that being somebody that has a lot of first responders who are very close to me, it has helped me relate with that person, you know, on a more personal level. I think too, it also humanizes the work. And, you know, I say to myself, you know, if this was my dad, my brother, my mom, you know, somebody that's very close to me and looking for treatment, you know, how would I want this situation handled? You know, and really kind of putting myself in that spot as well.

SPEAKER_03 15:37

And I think that that's the other part too that you you just mentioned that's so important is the family. We can talk about the work environment a little later on, but I think that the family is also kind of like I feel that the only people who get the like the real story are the family members. I think that with work you can put on a mask. I think that in social search situations you can put on a mask, but at home, it's hard to keep up the mask all the time. And I think that, you know, I don't know if you want to talk a little more, but you said, you know, consulting with family members. I think to me, my experience has been that they're the better data collectors than the actual patients of them.

SPEAKER_01 16:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:17

Is that your experience or am I completely wrong? And for those of you listening to me, and I just said that, write to me if you're not happy, but tell me I'm wrong. Just saying.

Why Serve First Responders

SPEAKER_01 16:25

No, I I absolutely agree. I think, I mean, with all of us, it can be hard to reflect on yourself and to notice when you're at a point where you need some help. You know, but the people that are closest to us do see that. I think, you know, especially with our first responders, the culture is that they're the helpers. They're the ones that are taking care of everybody else. And if there's a crack in that, it can be perceived to them at that moment as a sign of weakness, or, you know, once the cracks start forming, people get really scared that they're just going to completely fall apart and not be able to pull it back together and do their job and take care of their family and do all the things. So I think that wall comes up as a way for people to really protect themselves, but you can't hide that from the people that are closest to you. And sometimes I think the harder people try and hide it, the more a family becomes concerned and starts to see that there's some things going on, you know, that might be an issue. You know, I think with substance use, mental health, they're in the same boat, in the same realm, but can be very different too. You know, I think especially when it comes to substance use, people seem to have a little bit easier of a time sometimes, admitting, you know, yeah, my drinking's gotten a little out of control. Um, you know, I think that can be sometimes an easier conversation to have than you seem to be losing a little bit of touch with reality on the mental health side, or hey, you seem like you're really down depressed. Are you thinking of hurting yourself? Like those kinds of conversations can be more challenging in my experience to have.

SPEAKER_03 18:08

Well, I think it's also kind of like more acceptable for them to have a substance abuse problem.

SPEAKER_01 18:13

100%.

SPEAKER_03 18:14

You know, oh, I'm and again, if I'm breaking a wall here, oh, I'm just a drunk, or I'm just popping pills, or versus you know what? I think I have PTSD from the 800 events I've seen, that's not gonna fly.

SPEAKER_01 18:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:27

Because the, you know, like if you have a substance abuse, you don't lose your weapon.

SPEAKER_01 18:31

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 18:32

But if you have a mental health issue, the first thought is, are they gonna take my weapon away?

SPEAKER_01 18:36

Yep. Yep. And that's often, you know, within the first five questions that I'm I'm getting from people is, you know, am I gonna lose, am I gonna lose my job? You know, are you gonna kidnap me away and I'm not gonna have control over this situation? You know, those are the big concerns. Legitimately so.

Sponsor: Deemed Fit Offer

SPEAKER_03 18:57

Oh, and and and it's not like it comes from nowhere, because you know, like again, we we we'll we'll get into work before, but before, like I remember this is not ancient history. I've been only here for 27 years or so. As soon as there was a police officer that had some sort of like just struggling, and and this is old school, like I said, it's about 20 something years ago. But the chief right away called to get his gun, his badge, sit, you're an admin leave. And like he he like again, I was a young kid, so I couldn't really say, but in my hand, I'm like, he just said that he had a tough time. Why are we doing this? Why are we punishing him for being truthful?

SPEAKER_01 19:38

Right.

SPEAKER_03 19:39

Happens too often.

Family As First Data Collectors

SPEAKER_01 19:40

Yeah, it does. And I think that that is why, you know, across all first responders, law enforcement, fire, EMS, everybody. There's that hesitancy to to ask for help. I know recently I just had a friend of mine who's a firefighter, sent me a text, hey, do you know anyone? I think I should talk to somebody. And for me, I was like, are you okay? Like, do I need to come to your house? Like, this is like huge red flags, because just for them to say that was huge. You know, for them to get to the point to reach out to me and say, Hey, I think I might need to talk to somebody. That's like, if it had been a civilian, they'd probably already be in a hospital somewhere, you know.

SPEAKER_03 20:30

Right.

SPEAKER_01 20:31

Truly.

SPEAKER_03 20:32

Yeah, and I think that that's you know, that's where the the fear is too in calling someone are they gonna section me, or they're gonna Yeah, you know, and you see that all the time, and it's sad because we we really have a we've created an environment where we're letting these individuals get really bad. And, you know, and there's so many things. I mean, I'm gonna get off my I'm gonna get on my hor my high horse here for a few seconds, but you know, there's wellness visits, there's abilities to get some support. You don't need to wait till you need therapy. One of the thoughts I regularly share with my chiefs and everyone else when I talk about these programs that we they have, you can make it acute stress disorder, which means it goes away six months, and it's not like it's completely gone always there, but it's not overtaking their life. Or you make it PTSD and then the treatment's a little more complex, takes a little longer, and will cause other issues in the future. I I like the acute stress disorder diagnosis personally.

SPEAKER_01 21:34

Yep. Absolutely. And I mean, we're forced by nature of the work to put these labels on things and you know, say this is this and this is that. But I think there are so many opportunities, you know, for people to get the help that they need without, you know, having this lifelong label attached and this lifelong stigma attached and and losing their firearms and losing their job and losing all These things, you know, there are some pretty low barrier entry points for people to reach out and get help. There's groups, there's one-on-one, you know, there's peers, there's so many things. But it's just helping people to get over that initial internal barrier, I think is the hardest part.

SPEAKER_03 22:19

And I think that that's a good point. When you talk about the internal barrier, I think that that's the biggest problem, in my opinion. Sorry. When we when we talk about those internal barriers, like what do you like, what do we suggest to family members? We talked a little bit of the family earlier. Do we tell the family confront it? Do we tell the family deal with it? Do we tell them call me more often? I mean, how do we deal with that? Because I think family members want to help, but I think sometimes they feel, no pun intended, shackled.

SPEAKER_01 22:51

Yeah. Yeah. I think there is a level of helplessness to it for anybody that has a loved one that, you know, struggling with substance use, mental health, any of these issues. You know, and I think sometimes we think if we could just hold them down and force them into treatment, then it would make everything go away. But we unfortunately know that that's not really true either.

SPEAKER_02 23:13

Right.

SPEAKER_01 23:14

You know, so I think it is just kind of staying in frequent contact with people. I'll reach out. If I have somebody that, you know, calls and says, you know, I really want my husband to get some help. He's not willing. What do I do? You know, there's ways to kind of introduce the concept. I can be the person to introduce the concept. Hey, I was just talking to this lady, you know, she has some programs. What do you think? You know, sometimes bringing in that third party, you know, whether it's a person, whether it's a resource, looking something up, you know, the internet has a wealth of everything nowadays, you know, bringing those resources to the individual and saying, like, hey, this looks kind of familiar. What do you think? But I mean, at the end of the day, people aren't gonna get help until they're ready. Right. Or something horrible happens.

Stigma, Weapons, And Job Fears

SPEAKER_03 24:03

So And I think that you're absolutely right. They won't get the help until something bad happens or the proverbial poop hits the fan.

SPEAKER_01 24:12

Yeah, yeah. I mean, we see in our program now, I think a lot of times I work, you know, with both civilians and first responders. I think on an average basis, by the time a first responder is reaching out to get help, the acuity level and just everything going on is so much deeper than what we see on the civilian side. I think with the civilian side, people find themselves accessing care one way or another. It could even be through like a visit with their primary care doctor. Right. You know, all these different ways that people can kind of happen across some treatment. Whereas with our first responder population, I think they just wait and wait and wait and they carry that with them for so much longer than they need to, you know.

SPEAKER_03 25:00

I agree wholeheartedly. And I think that the reason why I wanted to put this on the podcast is you're right. It's, you know, there's sometimes they get too far, and that makes it even harder when you go to the treatment center. Which you know, by the way, that's why people get to have the recommendation of staying longer. And I tell people that what this is doing, I'm saying this on a podcast for two reasons. Number one, reach out for help before like it gets bad. Don't wait, wait till everything breaks and then say, okay, I need help. Number two, I I think that was what I wanted to do with this part too, and I appreciate you kind of like letting me let it, you're talking, but I also let me do this is I want first responders who are listening to this right now. I want them to realize that if they're hurting, their family's hurting too. They may not be saying it, but they see it and they hear it. So that's why I wanted to mention that because I'm sure you saw it when your family and you've seen it in other families. It's one of those things that they know, so don't pretend they don't and just be honest with it. So that's why I want to talk about that.

SPEAKER_01 26:01

Yeah, absolutely. And it is just so important. You know, people oftentimes when they're hurting, when they're struggling, they get in this silo of this only affects me. But it's just not true. You know, everybody has somebody somewhere. And, you know, the connection, even just with their job. They want to be, you know, successful in their role and, you know, go out and keep the community safe, supported, healthy, happy, all those things. And you can't do that when you're not functioning like you should be functioning. You know, you can't.

SPEAKER_03 26:35

Well, you can have your cape Wonder Woman or Superman, but it doesn't protect you from the mental health and psychological pressure that that creates.

SPEAKER_01 26:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:44

So you want to stick around for another half hour? Because I think we have a lot more to talk about.

SPEAKER_01 26:48

Absolutely. I'd love to.

SPEAKER_03 26:49

All right, perfect. I just want to end this part and please join us for part two with Nikki Mason right after this.

SPEAKER_00 26:58

Please like, subscribe, and follow this podcast on your favorite platform. A glowing review is always helpful. And as a reminder, this podcast is for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. If you're struggling with a mental health or substance abuse issue, please reach out to a professional counselor for consultation. If you are in a mental health crisis, call 988 for assistance. This number is available in the United States and Canada.