E. 245 How Leaders Can Support First Responder Recovery

You can do everything “right” on the job and still end up quietly falling apart at home. Part two with Nikki Mason gets real about what first responder mental health support actually needs to look like when the stakes are high and the window for help is small.

We start with the hard conversation many departments avoid: how to get chiefs and administrators to back real treatment instead of rushing someone back after a few required days off. Nikki explains why a first responder agreeing to care is a rare moment worth protecting, and we talk about how the leadership case can be framed in human terms and in dollars and cents, including the true cost of losing a trained police officer, firefighter, paramedic, dispatcher, or correctional professional.

Then we break down what a voluntary first responder treatment program can look like at Granite Recovery Centers’ Rally Point program in New Hampshire: no locked doors, a supportive environment, daily groups, individual therapy, case management, medical support when needed, and recovery options that respect personal choice. We also dig into Granite’s Enjoy Life campaign and why rebuilding connection, fun, and community is not fluff but a relapse prevention tool. If you have ever wondered whether “connection” is the missing piece for PTSD, depression, anxiety, or substance use recovery, this conversation gives you language and a path forward.

To find Nikki Mason, please visit Granite Recovery Centers - Rally Point Program: Detox, residential, PHP/IOP with lodging up in scenic New Hampshire, all in network with insurance
Also visit Open Sky - Crisis Intervention Training: 40 hour certificate training for law enforcement & first responders

If this helped, subscribe, share it with someone on your shift, and leave a review so more first responders can find the support they deserve.

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Transcript

Welcome And Mental Health Focus

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Welcome to Resilience Development in Action with Steve Bisson. This is the podcast dedicated to first responder mental health, helping police, fire, EMS, dispatchers, and paramedics create better growth environments for themselves and their teams. Let's get started.

Getting Admin To Support Treatment

SPEAKER_00 0:29

Well, welcome back for part two with Nikki Mason. She's still sitting here. Always great to see you again. But magic of like podcasting, like a week later, suddenly she looks exactly the same. I do too. That's just how it works. That's go on YouTube to get what I'm saying. But we were talking a little bit about family. I want to shift gears a little bit because we talked about that, but we talked about how we need to educate also, I believe, people who are in charge, particularly, I feel like administration sometimes don't understand that. Let them have the little party in the front end when they're having a hard time so that we can keep it acute stress disorder, like I think I mentioned the other episode. How do we, you know, I'm sure that you've faced that and talking in to leadership. How have you dealt with those things? Because I think it's really a hard conversation sometimes.

SPEAKER_02 1:18

It is a hard conversation. And I think helping, you know, people to understand that having an opportunity to get somebody treatment, get them appropriate treatment, proper treatment, and especially at a point where they're willing to engage in that treatment, that's a really rare gem of a moment. So it doesn't make a lot of sense to rush through that or dismiss it when you have it. So if you're in that position and somebody's saying, you know, yeah, I will participate in a 30-day program, I will participate in an IOP day treatment program, I will participate in whatever it is, you know, it's in everyone's best interest to support that. And it really does give the opportunity to have some long-lasting results versus rushing somebody through, giving them three days off because you're required to, and then putting them right back out there. We're just gonna run into these same issues over and over and over again, you know, without really giving them the opportunity to heal properly, without giving them the opportunity to do some good, solid work.

SPEAKER_00 2:29

And I'm I I think that that's exactly it. We got to communicate that. I'll, you know, recently we've had a couple of incidents in Central Mass. I'll give credit to the chiefs there that really reached out to the right people and got the help, and they seem to be very well aware that give them the time to get help now, that way you don't lose your investment. Because what I've said to chiefs to get through to them, like, how much does it cost to go through the academy and then get him trained with, you know, you got your your your field officer that's te teaching too, and then the person goes out after a couple of years because they didn't get the treatment they needed. That's a lot of money thrown out the window.

SPEAKER_02 3:08

Yep, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 3:09

Police, fire, whatever. So I kind of go with the financial side, and usually that gets the some of the chiefs who don't perk up with the mental health bar, they perk up with how much to save money.

CIT Training And Repeating The Message

SPEAKER_02 3:18

Yeah, absolutely. The logistics matter, you know, to them, and and pointing that stuff out is really important. I think one of the things in central mass in particular that I've been impressed with is the amount of departments that are engaging in the 40-hour CIT crisis intervention training. So I've been helping out with that as well. I do just kind of the opening piece about what is mental health, what is substance use. But I think that, you know, their willingness to even kind of engage from the perspective of, okay, our officers are going out in the community and they're going to be handling this type of situation and then kind of rewinding it back a little bit and being able to say, like, well, we talked about trauma, depression, anxiety, substance use, all these things. And by the way, there are services, you know, for law enforcement, for all first responders that, you know, cater to this stuff. It kind of flips that a little bit and makes them realize, you know, like, oh, we're people too. Like these are people issues, and we also happen to be human. You know, so being able to bring that into the conversation is important.

SPEAKER_00 4:28

I mean, you talk about the central mass one. I know there's going to be one in February. I think this is coming out in March, but I I really appreciate the work that Open Sky does. Riverside does a fantastic job. Also, this is all central mass stuff. For those of you listening from elsewhere, I'm just not plugging in by anything but that I respect them. And then there's the Metro West Hack too that I've worked with, and they're very, very good. And I did the CIT trainings in Middlesex for a couple of years and really enjoy that. And I would always sneak in the trauma about the first responders and getting treatment a little bit in there. And I shout out a good friend of mine, Catherine, who helped me just put that in there.

SPEAKER_02 5:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:09

But you you know as much as I do, we need to sneak that in.

SPEAKER_02 5:12

You do. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's mashing up the vegetables into your kids' dinner and and hiding it, you know, and with all the mashed potatoes and the good stuff. It it's the same thing, you know. It it's very important, you know, that people kind of hear this information time and time again, over and over again. And then eventually little snippets start to sink in a little bit, hopefully.

SPEAKER_00 5:35

Well, I I think it's a good transition to when I talk to some of the like the first responder people, they I'm like, you know what, there's a place in New Hampshire that you can go to, it's really close, very well respectful for the first responder world. The first thing they ask me is, like, are they gonna hold me there against my will, or are they gonna like give me electroshock therapy? And I'm like, the hell do you think you do there? And I know you don't do that, but maybe explain a little bit as to like if I'm a first responder, I'm going, okay, I really need help. I need to go away for we'll go 30 days. How's that? Just making it up as I go. And I call you up. And what type of services are you gonna tell me? It's like, how many electroshocks am I gonna get? I mean, what's going on here?

SPEAKER_02 6:20

So we don't know.

SPEAKER_00 6:21

No electroshock, just telling you.

SPEAKER_02 6:23

No, no, no shackles, no lock doors, no, nope. So, and that truly the no lock doors is one of the things that I personally really enjoy about working at this program, and I think is kind of welcoming and a breath of fresh air for a lot of our first responders coming up. You know, it's a voluntary program. So nobody, not one person there is held against their will in any physical way. There might be outside pressures. You might have a chief, you might have a spouse saying, hey, you gotta stay up there, you know, but it's not a secured, locked type of a setting. So, you know, people can walk freely around the campus, and if they smoke, they can go outside and smoke. It's very popular with people being able to do that. But just getting the fresh air, you know, touching the ground, breathing the air. It's literally on the side of a mountain in New Hampshire. So the environment is really important to us up there. But I think in terms of the treatment, it really is designed to help people get, if it's 30 days, 30 days of stability and 30 days of sobriety and get that time where they can feel like they have a foundation underneath them before returning home. You know, it is kind of a destination location. We don't have a lot of locals from up there. I mean, when you went up, it's it's pretty remote. So, you know, not a lot of neighbors, not a lot of stuff going on up there. But I think that that also lends to, especially, you know, people coming from out of state of that security feeling of I'm not going to run into a lot of people that I know up here. You know, it is it's pretty off-the-beaten path. But in terms of treatment, we have our separate rally point program. So the program itself is in like a separate little, I keep doing this because it's in a house. It's in its own little watching YouTube. Own little building. You know, we have first responders that are running the treatment there. So they know what's going on. They know, you know, all the tips and tricks that people might try and use to not talk about the things that are really bothering them. They're open to having conversations about, you know, feeling isolated from other people in their lives that are not first responders. They're open to having conversations about feeling, you know, a lack of support from the system and administration. You know, they're open to a lot of that and they guide that in a really powerful way. You know, there's a lot of opportunity, I think, for people to go up and just get the treatment that they need, you know, before returning home. Because that's the end goals. We want people to come back.

SPEAKER_00 9:08

Right. And I think that what, you know, I'm gonna I was there, I've been there, a really nice campus, love the campus. Group, individual, free time, AA. If you want, you don't need to do the AA. It's a step program, but they they respect it. If you don't want to do it, sobriety is important, and you get that there too.

SPEAKER_02 9:29

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 9:29

You know, you've got doctors who come by for medic medication if needed. Yep, we do. Yeah. So we have sorry, I'm really plugging it for you at this point. I gotta shut up.

SPEAKER_02 9:40

No, keep you're doing great. You're hired.

SPEAKER_00 9:42

Oh, great.

SPEAKER_02 9:45

So yeah, we do. We have, in terms of staffing, clinician that is working with people individually, so they have that kind of one-on-one time to discuss things in private that they might not be comfortable or want to discuss in a group, or just kind of reflect on their personal needs. We also have case management. So those are people that are helping with some of the logistics of getting back home. Some people need help with, you know, varying degrees of things. Maybe it could be as simple as, hey, I really need to find an outpatient therapist, or it can get into the more complicated filling out FMLA paperwork and, you know, all of that stuff that kind of can need to be done. We have a group running every day, seven days a week. So it's not the type of place where you're going and just sitting around. And I know that when I previously worked a kind of a higher level of care and inpatient psych, that was one of the things that really bothered me, I think, was just the amount of time that people are just sitting around. You know, they're physically kept safe. So yes, you cannot hurt yourself, you cannot hurt other people, hopefully. You know, but the amount of work and treatment is really limited. That level of care is really designed, you know, to keep people alive. And beyond that, it can be very challenging to get into some of those deeper issues. So this is really a place where people can do that. They can get into, you know, a little bit more of the nitty-gritty of what has brought us to this point. How do we avoid getting to this point again? You know, what do you need now? What do you need in the future? And let's get through it.

SPEAKER_00 11:21

I think that that's all good points. And I think that from my perspective, the other part that you guys do really well is to meet people where they're at. The difference between my experience, anyway, with inpatient with the civilian population versus more of the first responder correctionals, correct me if I'm wrong again. There's a different type of determination. Sure, you'll have some people who are not, no matter what, engaged. But I find that once you cross that bridge in treatment, and fortunately it seems like everyone works extremely hard not to have to go back ever again. That's my experience.

SPEAKER_02 11:56

Yeah, I think so. I mean, I think that for people that are reaching a point where they can have some hope, you know, and see a future that looks a little different than how things have been going. That can be the real determining factor in helping them to kind of move forward towards that and stay there.

Enjoy Life Campaign Building Connection

SPEAKER_00 12:17

Just a quick break, guys. I'm gonna talk about a new product that I really like. I actually bought one of their hoodies, it was a me amazing, and I really enjoyed wearing it. This episode is gonna be supported by Deemed Fit. Deemed Fit is a first responder-owned activ active wear and leisure uh brand. And one thing that I genuinely like about them is that they support different causes. I actually gave a few people I know who work with first responders, our nonprofits, their name to uh DeemFit, and I know they're talking to them. They do a lot of initiatives and collections that are based on mental health for first responders. And if you go there right now and you buy anything, including the mental health support stuff, uh use the code R D A 15. That's right, R D A 15 to get 15% off on the any products that you get. Again, it's called R D A 15. Go to deanfit.com, D-E-E, M-E-D, F-I-T.com, and enjoy 15% off at checkout to save. Now, right back to the episode. Yeah, and I think that that's where, you know, I like what you you guys meet and where they're at. They get they get the treatment they want. But if something called, and I gotta look down, enjoy life.

SPEAKER_01 13:29

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 13:31

I have no clue. I'm coming in very blind as to what that is. So I'm gonna ask you, what is that about? What's that campaign about?

SPEAKER_02 13:38

Yeah, so that's something I'm actually really excited about that Granite does across programs, you know, with our Rally Point population, first responders and vets, and then with the civilians as well. So the Enjoy Life campaign came about as a way to do exactly what it sounds like and help people enjoy life again, or maybe for the first time enjoy life. We incorporate a lot of kind of forced fun activities for people, which initially, you know, as my kids would say, is very cringe. A lot of people, you know, don't wanna don't want to participate or like, oh my God, you know, another karaoke painting, whatever it might be, thing that I'm, you know, gonna force into this dumb activity. But what we've found is that when we kind of build a calendar around these kinds of activities, it's really generating a sense of community and a sense of fun in life again. And we don't often get those in treatment for people to just have a good time and not have the purpose be clinical, not have it be focused on 12-step work, not have it be, focused on you know, this ulterior motive or this other thing. It really is just genuinely getting people to a place where they can laugh, have fun, talk to other people. You know, even if that conversation is, wow, hey man, can you believe how stupid this activity is? You know, it's giving people grounds to kind of meet and make connections. You know, we do field trips off site. We'll go to, you know, Portland. I'm gonna mess up the baseball team. I want to say Sea Dogs, yep. Um, I don't live in Portland, but I do know the Sea Dogs. I know the Woo-Socks. Um, yeah, the Sea Dogs games, which they will do a first responder night. So we'll sometimes try and coordinate, you know, that field trip, which could be pretty fun. But it really is whether it's sitting around a fire, playing volleyball, going snow tubing, you know, in the cold weather, it's just getting people to experience joy and be able to have that opportunity and do it sober, which a lot of people have not perhaps engaged in in a while, and do it in a way where, you know, there are people around that are going through a similar thing. And just building on that sense of community, camaraderie, and you know, helping people to get to that place where they want to and can enjoy life again.

SPEAKER_00 16:13

I don't mean to throw a curveball at you, but I guess I'm gonna throw a curveball at you. What I'm really hearing about enjoy life is really that connection. And I think that what happens in my experience is once you lose that connection because of your own health issues, mental health problem, primarily, substance abuse, primarily. Getting to connect with people who are not in your department, i.e., at a treatment center, I run two groups out of my office on Tuesdays and Fridays. And there's this connection with people who are not in your department that to like they ask me, Hey, how's Jane? How's John? And there seem to be like when you talk about enjoying life, is really is that connection.

SPEAKER_02 16:54

Yeah, absolutely. And I think that, you know, we forget how important that is, you know, just for happiness and a sense of purpose, but for survival. I mean, I used to work in foster care programs, and the leading cause of homelessness wasn't addiction. It's not mental health, it's, you know, not being in the foster care system. It's it's a lack of connections. You know, people eventually run out of couches to stay on. They run out of people to call when they need help. And that lack of safe connections is what leads to homelessness, leads to so many issues, you know, that we just don't even realize.

SPEAKER_00 17:34

How many times have we heard the story? I'm bored, I was alone at home, I grabbed a drink. Or, you know, I started gambling or what have you. There's there's so much to be said about how sometimes the loneliness and the lack of connection is a symptomology of other health issues, including physical. Yep. But for mental health in particular, for me, that connection is so important. And having, you know, all the spaces that you offer and you know having this pro this campaign is so important because I think that people will get that connection that they're seeking.

Readiness Matters More Than Season

SPEAKER_02 18:09

Yeah, absolutely. And we have alumni coordinators also that check in with people after they leave, you know, just a phone call. Hey, how's it going? You know, we love it when the answer to that is things are going great. I'm working, I'm, you know, spending time with my family, my friends, whatever. You know, sometimes they're not doing great. And that alumni coordinator can be the person that is that connection and just say, what do you need? You know, what do you want to talk for a little bit? Do you need to get to your meeting? Do you need to go see somebody else? Like, what can we do to help you get on a better track? You know, and knowing that that's kind of built into the program, I think, has been really helpful for people. And the alumni coordinators are great about running activities. You know, we do cookouts and big get-togethers with people throughout the year as well. It's just kind of a chance to reconnect to some of those people that they met in treatment.

SPEAKER_00 19:02

Well, I'm hoping that I go back to see it sometime when there's not snow on Mount Washington, which I think is what we saw. Yes. I'm sure that there's a difference between the summer and the winter time.

SPEAKER_02 19:13

Yes, very much.

SPEAKER_00 19:15

Knowing it's New Hampshire and knowing, you know. Do you think that it's there's a particular season that's better than the other to get treatment? Do you think that it doesn't matter as long as you're ready or something else?

SPEAKER_02 19:28

Aaron Powell I think it doesn't matter as long as you're ready. I think, you know, people in this world will, you know, kind of talk about, oh, it's busy at this time and it's slow at this time. For I don't know why, for whatever reason, I seem to be on a very opposite schedule of everyone else. I seem to be busy when everyone says it's slow and slower when everyone says it's busy. My phone was ringing off the hook on Christmas Day, you know, and that's the day where people, oh, nobody's coming into treatment that day. So I think it can really just depend on what people need. You know, and there are times of year, I think naturally that, you know, that that first really nice day in spring when it finally hits us this year after a string of cold, dreadful, snowy months, you know, I think that's going to be a great day and everyone's gonna be in a great mood and driving around with our windows down. But life happens even on those days too. So, you know, just because everybody else can kind of seem to be in this high place, that could still be not a great day for someone else. So just kind of taking those things into account and you know, being available whenever people need us.

SPEAKER_00 20:39

I'm gonna share a little story with you, which is a true story. We did the stats over five years at our crisis team when I worked at on crisis team, if we're more busy on a full moon day or not. You know, it turned it turned out that it was not statistically significant. We get a higher call volume, but hospitalizations or evaluations are actually pretty much the same. We get these changes when the weather changes, like there's a high spike. If we had a lot of string of good days and then there's a bad, like rainy day or snow. So just for the record, it's I that's what like when people there's a pattern. I'm like, no, I I don't think there is a pattern personally. We've actually, well, I know it's just one crisis team for I think we cover what, 14 plus 12, whatever that is, 26 towns.

SPEAKER_02 21:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:26

But it's still, I think, is telling that it's not about that. I think that the reason why I say that, and again, you toss you that because I also want to make sure that people know. Nikki's gonna have openings on July nineteenth. It's my birthday. You've got July nineteenth as your birthday?

unknown 21:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:43

Guess who's July nineteenth also? Who?

SPEAKER_02 21:46

No way, birthday twins. Why not?

SPEAKER_00 21:48

We are, yeah. Anyway, well, July nineteenth or January nineteenth.

SPEAKER_02 21:52

Mm-hmm.

How To Reach Nikki And Close

SPEAKER_00 21:53

It won't change. Nikki will well, maybe we won't be available on the nineteenth. The twentieth or the we got colleagues though, it's fine. But on the those days, it doesn't matter as long as you're ready for the s the help. I think one of the things that I'll wait till it's cold or I'll wait till it's warm or I'll wait till it's muddy or I'll wait like I mean I lived in Vermont for a year, so I know about mud season and all that fun stuff. So but there's never a good time, and I think that that's what I wanted to communicate here because that's what you're saying, and I agree wholeheartedly. But if someone like as we get close to the end here, how do we get in connect? Like, how do we connect with you? Obviously, everyone knows that they can call me and I have those connections. But how did they say like I don't like Steve, I just want to talk to Nicky.

SPEAKER_02 22:38

People can call me. My cell phone direct is public information. 603-851-4921. You know, they can get in touch with me directly. And if I'm not available, you know, I'll get you to somebody that is right away. You know, I think that's that's the best way, truly, to get in touch.

SPEAKER_00 23:01

And I've I've called you several times and you've always answered. And if you didn't answer, you return the phone call fairly quickly. That's not me just being nice to you, it's just my experience with what I've done with you. And the one thing I would say about the center that I forg I wanted to may mention earlier and I've forgotten I'm gonna mention it. I sent you someone who got to connect with someone out in Vermont of all places, and they're from Massachusetts. And they said that when they feel down, they can talk to someone who is not in her department, but have gone through similar things because of stuff. And she calls them and she thinks it's like the cat's meow, it's the best thing in the world.

SPEAKER_02 23:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:40

Because she's having a very good people knowledgeable con conversation without them knowing Jane, John, and Ricky and Helen. I don't know, I'm making names up. And I think that that's the other part too that I want to mention that is so helpful. So if you're not from the area, which is pretty common in that area, go there. You're gonna make some connections with a lot of people from different departments, and you will have that as an outlet, the support we talked about. I think that that's so essential.

SPEAKER_02 24:09

Yeah, absolutely. I think just being able, you know, like we said, to connect with people, but to have the opportunity to really connect with people that know what you're going through but aren't in your immediate circle is really nice. It gives you that sense where you can be a little bit more vulnerable than, you know, maybe chatting with somebody in your own department. And, you know, yeah, it's great to be able to bitch and oh, sorry.

SPEAKER_00 24:34

To be able to complain and I I personally don't care on my podcast, which I'm trying to do with Milford TV here. Try to be nice. Zon Meeks doesn't seem to care, so we're good.

SPEAKER_02 24:46

Having somebody, you know, in your own department to complain and they know the players, they know who you're talking about, to be able to say, oh, you know, this person did this, and you know, that's great. But being able to have it said in a way that, you know, you can really just freely say whatever you want to say, not have that fear of backlash or, you know, this is gonna get back to so-and-so, and you know, just not have to worry about that is very freeing for people.

SPEAKER_00 25:11

It's a small world, and uh especially in the law enforcement world. I learned that in the mental health world too. But talking to someone in Colorado about someone who works in mental health in Massachusetts or New Hampshire feels a lot easier to talk to. So I think it goes the same way for first responders. Yeah, absolutely. Well, Nikki, as we we approach the end here, I want to thank you. I know we we've been trying to get this done for a couple of months. I meant every word I say, but I truly like I I'm not lying when I say to you, and my audience knows this. Every time I've called you, you've always responded and went in. I can't remember a time where you wanted more than an hour to respond to me. So from the bottom of my heart, for all the people I've served, I thank you. And I'm saying this so that people can hear it that you are actually that way. It's not some line from a and people know I don't give a line. So thank you so much for that. And thank you for coming on to Resilience Development in Action.

SPEAKER_02 26:05

Thank you. I really, really appreciate the opportunity to be here and you know, hopefully just be able to spread the word that there's help available if anybody needs it.

SPEAKER_00 26:15

And I and I know that you do a fantastic job. So thank you again.

SPEAKER_02 26:19

Thanks.

SPEAKER_00 26:20

Well, this completes our episode 245. Join us for episode 246, and I appreciate your time.

SPEAKER_01 26:28

Please like, subscribe, and follow this podcast on your favorite platform. A glowing review is always helpful. And as a reminder, this podcast is for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. If you're struggling with a mental health or substance abuse issue, please reach out to a professional counselor for consultation. If you are in a mental health crisis, call 988 for assistance. This number is available in the United States and Canada.