What Happens After The Save

One small action can change a whole community, and sometimes even rewrite what the next generation learns in school. We sit down with Brad and Kira Newberry to unpack the idea behind their book, The Saved Effect, and why a single rescue rarely ends when the ambulance doors close. Using the butterfly effect as a guide, we explore how “micro moments” of courage and care can ripple outward into families, careers, and public policy.

We dig into a story that’s hard to forget: an eight-year-old girl choking at a restaurant, a nurse stepping in with the Heimlich maneuver, and the long tail of that save. Years later, that same kid is training hundreds of people in CPR and pushing for a bill that would make CPR certification a high school graduation requirement. We connect that to a bigger first responder and public health question: why do we teach fire safety so well, but still treat CPR as optional life knowledge in so many places?

We also get real about first responder mental health and the culture shift around PTSD support, peer help, chaplains, and modern critical incident resources. Then we go straight into the generational friction point, with a father-daughter perspective on what Gen X and Gen Z each need to hear, and how EMS education can adapt to the way people actually learn today without lowering standards.

If you care about EMS, firefighter and police mental health, CPR training, or better leadership across generations, you’ll get a lot from this conversation. Subscribe, share this with someone in the service, and leave a review so more people can find it.

Find Brad and Kiera at the following links: 

Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/thesavedeffect/
https://www.instagram.com/bradnewbury/
https://www.instagram.com/kieranewbury/

Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/brad.newbury
https://www.facebook.com/kiera.newbury.1


Tiktok
https://www.tiktok.com/@thesavedeffect
https://www.tiktok.com/@bradnewbury1
https://www.tiktok.com/@kieranewbury

Youtube
https://www.youtube.com/@BradNewbury
https://www.youtube.com/@TheSavedEffect


Linkedin

www.linkedin.com/in/brad-newbury
https://www.linkedin.com/in/kiera-newbury/

Transcript

Welcome Back And Why This Book

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Welcome to Resilience Development in Action with Steve Bisson. This is the podcast dedicated to first responder mental health, helping police, fire, EMS, dispatchers, and paramedics create better growth environments for themselves and their teams. Let's get started.

SPEAKER_02 0:29

Well, welcome back to the second part of the episode. And hey, look, Brad and Kira are still here. And they're looking exactly the same. Didn't even do a costume change. It's amazing. But I want to talk more about your book because you know we we were talking about it in the first episode. You can go back and listen to what brought daughter-father relationship to where they're at and into baiting at eight years old. Go listen back to that episode to know that story. And how me and Brad had to be the remote control for our parents. Again, go back to that episode for that story.

Naming The Saved Effect

SPEAKER_02 1:00

But I would love to hear about how I don't know who wants to take this first, but the saved effect. It's an interesting title because I, you know, I have my own interpretation in my head, but how did you guys get to that title? Because that's always an interesting. I know I wrote a book and people, how did you come up with that name? Just popped up. But for you guys, how did a save effect come up?

SPEAKER_03 1:23

Well, it was actually curious. So I had a different name and I went to her with the name of it. And and she she sat with it a couple of days later, she came back to me and I'll let her tell that story.

SPEAKER_02 1:33

So what was the first what was the first name though? What was the name of the name?

SPEAKER_03 1:36

It was just saved.

SPEAKER_02 1:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:38

Yeah, so I had I had been thinking about it and I knew that it didn't really encapsulate everything that we wanted it to. And I had seen on social media a bunch of things uh about the butterfly effect, and I had known about it prior to this, but I went to him and I said, Do you do you know what the butterfly effect is? And he said no. And so well, I explained it to him that, you know.

SPEAKER_03 2:02

I'm not a movie guy either, Steve, so I didn't see the butterfly effect the the movie.

SPEAKER_01 2:07

I had explained. That it it's this phenomenon that a butterfly flaps its wings in South America and in Oklahoma it could start a tornado. And it's the fact that there are actions that occur somewhere in the world that have these amazing impacts tens of thousands of miles away. And and I think that that really, really took effect on how we perceived these stories, because that's one of the main reasons why we began writing this book was because these stories and the action of saving a life has so many effects later on that one can't really even in totally think about because it goes on and on for generations, really. And and we had connected it to the ripple effect too in the book, and but I I brought it to him and he was like, that is just brilliant. And it was another one of those scenarios where I said, Oh, you're just being my dad again.

SPEAKER_03 3:10

But the reality was that once I heard that and then really started to think about truly, you know, the the as I I went so of course he says, you know, do you know what the butterfly effect is? I was like, that's why Google it and I start looking at it. And I said, that is amazing. It absolutely. It's this ripple effect, right? These little micro movements that change everything. And I remember going back and and thinking about the and and I even though I say I'm not a movie guy, I I was in the 80s, but I'm not now because I'm so busy. But I was thinking about Michael J. Fox in Back to the Future. And remember where if he made one little touch, one something that changed that that created uh, you know, he met his mother or whatever it was, it was going to change everything in the future. Right. And I was like, that's exactly what this is about. This is exactly what we've seen, you know, because we have no idea where the ripples are going to go. And we

Madeline’s Heimlich Rescue Ripple

SPEAKER_03 4:07

have this amazing story in in the book about this young woman, Madeline, and and and she was saved in in a she was choking in a restaurant in Lake Winnipes. And and Kira wrote that story. And and you know what she did afterward. And and she, you want to tell the story?

SPEAKER_01 4:25

Yeah, so so she was as you know, Lake Winnipesaukee is uh one of the biggest lakes in New England. But one thing that most people don't know is that their EMS system or or their fire department is volunteer and it it's at least in some of the small towns, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:39

Yeah, it's so it can take New Hampshire is like that for those who don't know from outside of here, but yeah, most of New Hampshire is volunteer. Go ahead, sorry.

SPEAKER_01 4:46

Yeah, so it can take a while to get to somebody having a medical emergency. And so this young girl, she was eight years old and she was at the table with her entire family. And one quote that has always stayed with me the most throughout writing this book is when she had stayed a piece of steak lodged in her airway, she had stood up and she said that she looked around the table at the people who loved her most and they had no idea what to do. And so her entire family was just so scared, and her parents were trying everything that they could or that they could think of, and her grandmother was begging her to throw up, and she just couldn't dislodge it herself. And it was a young nurse who had come over and just kind of quietly got in the middle of the situation and said, Let me try this. And kudos to her parents who were big enough to step aside and give their whole world over to this stranger who, in two abdominal thrusts, got this piece of steak dislodged. But she then turned around and come high school. She was trying to find her place in high school, and she really couldn't find a club that spoke to her. So she began an American Red Cross chapter in her high school. And then she went and she pitched it to a boardroom full of middle-aged professionals, and they had given her funding to start this course, and she received CPR equipment, mannequins, and she had gotten people that she could train to become instructors, and she had gone to her local restaurants and trained their staff to on how to do the Heimlich maneuver and how to do it.

SPEAKER_03 6:23

Which is part of CPR, as you know, right? I mean, it's part of the CPR classes, airway, airway instructors.

SPEAKER_02 6:30

It's now commonplace, but it wasn't so common years ago.

SPEAKER_01 6:34

Exactly. And so she began going out into her community and and teaching her entire community how to do these things that could save lives. And she actually got in touch with Senator Bruce Tarr, who is a Massachusetts senator. And together they've teamed up to now push a bill that makes it a mandatory requirement in order to graduate high school to become CPR certified. And Massachusetts is one in seven states where we don't have that requirement, which is absolutely insane to think that we're the number one leaders in education and healthcare. And yet when it comes to joining them together, we we lack in that. And but she she just let us know a few weeks ago that she just got into Harvard and she is going to make impeccable ripples just in the work that she's already done. But I can only imagine what she's gonna do in the future. And when you think about just the people that she's trained, she's trained hundreds of people so far. And she was featured on on Inside Edition and the Kelly Clarkson show. And Kelly Clarkson even gave her some money to fund a lot of these adventures that she's has. And yeah, on the flip side of that, when you think about that, Madeline was saved. And now she has trained hundreds of people who are now able to go out into the world and save others. And nobody will really be able to know how many lives that Madeline has impacted just from her 18 years on this earth.

SPEAKER_03 8:01

And and if that bill does get passed, I mean, think about that. You know, every single high school student uh, you know, will have to have mandatory CPR training before they graduate. And and I like to think about going back to, you know, I I've been in the fire service for a long time. And and

CPR As A Life Skill

SPEAKER_03 8:18

in my own department, I work for Stoughton Fire. You know, I've I've you know, I'm a captain there now and a shift commander. We don't have battalion chiefs, but that's really my role. So I work in a now in an SUV. But when my first when I first became a lieutenant back in 2001, my first my first job as a lieutenant was fire prevention. And if I said to you, Steve, what would you do if your clothes were on fire? What would you do? What's the three things we tell people?

SPEAKER_02 8:44

I can't remember the exact I know it in French though, so If you throw yourself to the ground and then you roll.

SPEAKER_03 8:51

Yeah, stop, drop, and roll, right? Like stop, drop and roll.

SPEAKER_02 8:54

Sorry, the French brain kicks in once. That's okay.

SPEAKER_03 8:56

That's okay. At least you knew what to do. But but the reality is, is we have been going into from preschool to kindergarten all through grade school, the fire department has gone in and taught fire prevention, fire safety. And every kid, if you ask a you know, a a a 30, 40, 40-year-old what are they supposed to do when their clothes are on fire, they remember back to that firefighter who came into their classroom who said, stop drop and roll, right? And but what we haven't done is is build the skill set around CPR. And and I think that, you know, when we think about the ripple effect, and it's so amazing, is that we have no idea what will, you know, those lives that will be saved because of the work that Madeline because she was saved and now went on to to do all these incredible things.

When Survivors Become Lifesavers

SPEAKER_03 9:41

And we have another story of a firefighter who, Rich Smith, who was who went into cardiac arrest in in the Bridgewater fire station, and and his, you know, is recognized by well, actually one of our former graduates was it was his second day on the job. And this is where one of the things that really hit me was so Rich was saved. His team they went out and it's a great story. They went out and that the team came in and they they resuscitated Rich. And he, like I said, he was found by Neil Harrington, who was it was literally his second day on the job. And he wasn't even supposed to be where he was, but it was it's a great story. Anyway, as Rich healed, you know, and and later on he couldn't be a firefighter because he had an implanted defibrillator, so he couldn't be a career firefighter. Mass doesn't allow that. And but he was able to go on and continue to serve as a paramedic because he just loved being a paramedic and and he didn't want to leave the profession. So he went to work for Carver EMS, Carver, the town of Carver. And and just happened that my wife's nephew, who's one of our graduates here, was getting an award for like our or they're bringing them together in the in the town for they had a great save. So they helped resuscitate this woman, and she was gonna meet everybody. And and I had heard that Maddie was going to get this award from the from the town selectman. So I was like, Oh, I gotta go, I love this kid. So I'm like, I gotta go support him. So I went there and I walk in and there's Rich. And and Rich was also an educator at our school, right? And I said, I looked at him, I go, What are you doing here? And he goes, Ah, they give me some award. I helped uh, you know, we save some lady, and and I was like, I rem I took a I have a great picture of Maddie and and Rich and this woman that they that they had worked as a team, and he was part of that team that that resuscitated this woman, and she's standing in there with her family. And I remember driving home and thinking about that. And and you think you think from a from a mental health standpoint, right? Here is a firefighter paramedic who had gone into cardiac arrest himself, was saved, and then went on and and was involved in helping save another life. And he still continues to surf. Like this is amazing. And it was those stories that as we began to connect and think about you know this the effect or the saved effect of what you know that one life bringing back. And if you

Rich’s Second Chance And Service

SPEAKER_03 12:03

look at the the the we have a great story about John Lee who drowned in Lake Winnipes, another Lake Winnipes story. But you know, it you think about that individual who's underwater and when he was brought back out of the water and then was was resuscitated and and then what his life looked like now. So those those deeply human stories that ripple out are just it was exactly why we wrote this book. And and it I I felt like these stories were inside of me that that I knew about, and then you know, we just had to tell it. And it was he it it was very like I said, it was very special not only to work with Ciara over this last year, but it was it was as we as this story started to develop, and and of course the same thing. I'm thinking, like, I've been telling some of these stories for years, but now all of a sudden we started telling some strangers and and that were involved in the publishing process. Uh and at one point we're at a meeting with a couple of folks from the publishing company, and we're showing them a promo video of what we did, and they're crying. And we're like, oh boy, this is we we did we knew we had something special.

SPEAKER_01 13:12

Yeah. And I

PTSD And The Culture Shift

SPEAKER_01 13:13

I want to touch on those stories that you mentioned too, especially the the Neil and Rich story, because you had you had asked about trauma, and both of those stories, the John Lee, where the the kid who the boy who drowned in the lake, and and the Neil and Rich, the one who saved his brother firefighter in the firehouse, both of them discuss and and we don't go into depth about it, but i if you look for it, it is touched upon. They both discuss PTSD, and they're both in very different ways, too. For Neil and Rich, Neil, again, it was his second day on the job, and he had found one of his brethren firefighters dead in the bedroom, and he had gone into the apparatus bay, and he spoke about it in a way that was just so emotionally compelling. And he said, I walked in to a bunch of people who didn't know what I knew. And so then he later on, after after the call had gone through, and his captain had looked at him and said, You need to see this call through. You need to see this call through. You need to be in the back of the ambulance to deliver him to the hospital, and you need to see him drop get dropped off alive. And he had discussed how he was outside the hospital and he just wasn't dealing with it well. And his captain had gone to him and said, You need to speak to the the chaplain. And this was 15 years ago, almost about so when he had said that to me, I I had studied psychology in college and it it threw up red flags, right? When you when you say you're having a to you're having a tough time dealing with a call to go speak with the chaplain.

SPEAKER_03 14:54

Okay, so not even knowing if he was religious or not.

SPEAKER_01 14:57

I mean it was exactly it was it was it made me chuckle a little bit, but it it just showed so much of the the culture shift that's happening currently in EMS. And I think it's definitely been within the past five to ten years that your generation and my generation have I I know that there sometimes can be times where Gen Z and some of the older generations can clash with the fact that a lot of people who have been in this profession for years think that the new kids are trying to come in and kind of destroy everything they've worked so hard for. And I I think that the the shift in mindset is coming from the fact that Gen Z has never wanted to get rid of these things that have been in place and and and Gen Z doesn't really say what you're doing is is bad. We I think what we uh try to do constantly is say we could be better. And so I think that's currently happening in a lot of these these professions and workforces in this, and it's just so evident in the fact that when he said that he had gone to the chaplain to talk, it took me aback because that that doesn't happen. Now we have critical incident management systems and you know mental mental health professionals who come into these like yourself who come into the departments and the hospitals to try and help these these professionals who need help.

Sponsor Break And Discount Code

SPEAKER_02 16:32

Just a quick break, guys. I'm gonna talk about a new product that I really like. I actually bought one of their hoodies, it was amazing, and I really enjoyed wearing it. Um this episode is gonna be supported by Deemed Fit. Deemed Fit is a first responder-owned active wear and a leisure brand. And one thing that I genuinely like about them is that they support different causes. I actually gave a few people I know who work with first responders or nonprofits their name to uh Deemed Fit, and I know they're talking to them. They do a lot of initiatives and collections that are based on mental health for first responders. And if you go there right now and you buy anything, including the mental health support stuff, use the code R D A 15. That's right, R D A 15 to get 15% off on any products that you get. Again, it's called R D A 15. Go to deanfit.com, D-E-E, M-E-D, F-I-T.com, and enjoy 15% off at checkout to save. Now, right back to the episode.

Mandating CPR In High School

SPEAKER_02 17:32

You guys just talked a lot, and I have about 400 things to add. We shouldn't like just a series. I you might be thinking I'm joking, but it may be important for us to think about doing a series of all this because we have two different generations that are able to understand what truly needs to be done and the importance of the saved effect and what it does. That's I re I did that in the ERs, just people like, oh, you helped my brother. Like, that's great. I don't remember your brother, but apparently that remember people remember that stuff. Two things you gotta mention you mentioned. High school and CPR should be mandated in Massachusetts. We are we're just trying to get people to college instead of getting them real education for real life. That is my political statement. You can read me if you want, if you want to. My daughter is doing her, she's doing her at the tech school. She already has her first aid CPR in biotech, and they're gonna they're gonna renew it every year until she's done. And that's so important to me. I learned how to do that too when I was in school, again in French, but it's still valid. You know, you talked about what the change happened 10 to 15 years ago. I like to think that the Generation Xers kind of pushed in the BB boomers and said, Hey, we want ride-alongs. We might not, we might be civilians, but we can help out as a mental health counselor, as other people, and that changed the value. I remember starting in Framingham and the jail diversion program, where you know, I mentioned this on you mentioned Joe earlier privately. I was the hug a tug program. Oh, you're gonna ride along, you're gonna give them a hug. I'm like, no, I want to get someone who's mentally ill, the treatment they deserve, rather than put them in jail. I don't know, that sounds crazy, but nowadays it's common. But at the time it was a crazy thought process. You know, I think that that's where the gen generation Xers have accepted some good ideas from the past and say shh this sucks, and then went on and said, Okay, this is better. And generation Xers are a little more open, but they're still resilient resistant to generate the millennials and generation Z about their ideas, but we've become a lot more open to that. But I'm not saying it's perfect by any stretch of the imagination. And let me add another thing that you maybe you guys can do this with your uh paramedics when you're doing in the schools and even in the ERs. Awards are so important, and what I mean by that is this awards educate people for what has to be done and what you can do in the community to support your community. We might be a country a country of all for like the you know, be the best you can be, blah, blah, blah. But we're also a community and we forget that. And those awards bring back the community. And too many first responders, in particular, nurses and other people, like they get those awards and get embarrassed or they kind of like poo-poo it out of the way. No, this is an education piece that the media does in order to move our like all this these things so that the community gets it. My neighbor who's elderly needs CPR. I mean, okay, I haven't done my CPR in about five years, but I do remember a little bit of it. So, no, I there's a good Samaritan law in Massachusetts that'll protect me. And until the firefighters or EMS or whoever gets there, I can do something. I think that one of the things I hope you can educate people is awards aren't a bad thing. It's a great PR move for the community to work with the community because hey, no one gets out of here alive, number one, and number two might as well be there for each other because no one's getting out of here alive, right? One

Family Dynamics And Hard Truths

SPEAKER_02 20:52

of the things you didn't we didn't mention, I want to mention, and I asked because you said, you know, I was listening to you, Kira, and I laughed because oh dad, you're being too nice or you're just saying that because I'm your daughter. Actually, my experience with first responders and firefighters is they're harder on their daughters and sons than they are to the rest of the fight. Heck yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:12

But I think I think that it's in different aspects of life, too. I obviously every time I have a big accomplishment, he's one of my number one supporters. And but it is funny because you told a story the other day about how growing up when we would get hurt, right, they have both of my parents have these past experiences where they kind of determine the severity of a situation based on their past experiences. And so if we were to, you know, break a bone or or get hurt in another way, then that would be the the suck it up attitude. Because if we could walk and we could talk and we were breathing, we were fine. That's right.

SPEAKER_03 21:54

It can't be that bad. I I'm with you, Brad. Yeah. But that doesn't mean that, you know, it is funny because Kira's sister Bridget, she her her we we grew they grew up watching American Idol. And let's not get anybody, neither one of them can sing, right? They just can't. And and they're like, Dad, we want to be on American Idol. I was like, I'm sorry, girls, that's just not possible. You just don't have that voice for that. And my wife's saying to me, Oh, that's harsh. I'm like, no, no, no. Somebody's got to tell them. How many people have we seen on American Idol who get up there and you're like, oh my goodness, like, where are their parents? How come they're not being truthful? Why are they allowing that person to get up there? You know, poor Simon's telling them the truth, and everybody hates that guy. But but I I do think that you're onto something. And and I will say, Kira is incredibly insightful, and there are times that I have 100% listened to her, right? Because she she brings an argument. And oh boy, do I bring an argument. And I don't I don't just mean like yelling and screaming. I'm talking about academic, right? I mean, you think about the difference between you know us and say Gen Zars. You know, Kira wanted to take her best friend across the street who she grew up with since she was literally an infant to school every day, right? And uh with with their vehicle, and we said, oh no, no, you cannot have any kids in vehicles, right? Like this is just not gonna happen. Kira goes out, searched the internet, finds a study that shows that teenagers who have uh other teenagers in the car are more safe. And literally presents this at the dinner table to my wife and I. We're like, okay, this is what it happens when you have smart kids. Like

Teaching Gen Z Without Losing Them

SPEAKER_03 23:32

that, you know, but you have to listen, as a as a reason, you know, as a I I have a graduate degree, right? At one point doing research, you have to accept the null, right? So we you you know, it might not be your opinion. But I will say, you know, Kira's not only during this process, but even before, like we changed our whole the way we teach EMTs here based on the feedback that Kira gave us as a Gen Zer and the way that we produce our our videos and the way that we produce our content, because we also know that these are the these are our students. And so she she came to me and said, Dad, I can't sit through these long lectures.

SPEAKER_01 24:06

They were three and a half hours long and they all talked like this for the same amount of time, and no there was no uh difference in it. It was so monotone and no hate to the instructors because they did a wonderful job teaching.

SPEAKER_02 24:19

What's that? I'm sorry, I fell asleep while you were saying exactly.

SPEAKER_01 24:22

But but our generation, my generation is is on TikTok. We watched 30-second clips, and that can barely hold our attention before we're swiping to the next one, and we're just looking for that dopamine rush, really.

SPEAKER_03 24:33

So we went out and built this amazing EMT program around some of the feedback that we were getting from our students. We did a bunch of research, looked at the way we keep attention, looked at camera angles, the way we move camera angles, everything that would keep attention from the student, but then then also through that storytelling, too, as well. And I'm not talking about war stories, I'm talking about can you connect stories to to learning? And that's important.

SPEAKER_02 25:00

And I think that's so important. I I joke around about I'm the same way. I can't listen to people drone on for like Yeah. Like Charlie Brown's teacher. Yeah. Yeah. Well, okay. Well, that that really remarks your age because I'm sure it happened with people listening going, who the hell is that? But I think it's also very important that you listen to each other. One of the misconceptions I find that happens in these debates of generation X versus Generation Z versus baby boomers. I mean, we did the best we can we could with what we had. The real important part is that I think that you need to be able to say as a generation Xer, I'm gonna learn from millennials, I'm gonna learn from Gen Z, I'm gonna learn from whatever generation alpha now is coming up, whatever the hell it is. But the point is, is I think the difference is some people like, no, this is what I know, this is what I stick to. Well, maybe what you know then work 30 years ago, it's not gonna work today. And that's important to realize that yeah, it did work, but it no longer it is no longer working with the generation we have. I think that for me, the reason why I want to highlight a little bit, not only here for your book here, one of the things that my audience always talks about is what's the dynamics at home, you know, families and all that. So that's why I really want to bring that up because you're you brought something, Kira, that I think is so needed. I still think that the didactic uh treatment of paramedic schools is still a little outdated, not necessarily yours, but some others where asking kids to sit in front of a video for three hours of like boring stuff, they're on their phone, they didn't pay attention, lo and behold, they go to paramedic task and they fail. Because why? They didn't listen to half the shit because they got bored.

SPEAKER_01 26:36

And they used Quizlet.

SPEAKER_02 26:38

Yeah. And I think that that's where you know, listening to everyone and what they bring as valuable is is so that it's so important to hear. And like I really appreciate that. That's why I was asking about that dynamic, because I think that this is something that every person needs to hear.

SPEAKER_01 26:54

On the flip side of that, too. I think that because you had mentioned that Gen X can't really just put push these these younger generations aside and cast them away. I I do think that there have been many times I have been wrong and my dad has been right, but I I do think as Gen Zers who it's recorded, Brad.

SPEAKER_03 27:12

I'm not thinking. Thank you. I appreciate that. Can we just get that clip? I'm gonna play it. You're good.

SPEAKER_01 27:18

I I think that as Gen Zers, we can kind of just look at our parents and or or older generations in general and just say, okay, you know, roll our eyes and and cast you guys aside too. But you you guys are the ones who have the experiences in life, and and you can teach us so many things.

SPEAKER_02 27:36

So well, when you think about the saved effect, I'm gonna just jump jump in. Your dad's experience is valuable to you, but you've got some of it that's no longer valid to you. That doesn't mean that's not all valid, just means some of it isn't. And for the same thing, hearing your gener your younger generation as a generation expert, sometimes I listen to your stuff about it's that I'm like, that's not valuable to me. But then I hear about how to learn, how to perceive things, how to work with people. I'm like, oh shit, these are good ideas. So I think it's not being one or the other, it's really being in between and started to bring in therapy here and bringing a little bit of that middle ground process, but that middle ground process so essential because I I remember that I was 20 and I knew everything. Not that I'm 50, I know what I know fits in a thimble in the size of this room now, and realizing that is helpful for us to hear other people versus saying you know everything.

SPEAKER_03 28:30

Sure, the Dunning-Kruger effect, right?

SPEAKER_02 28:33

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 28:34

Yeah, or is it is it Socrates too? Was Socrates the one who knows nothing? Or I could be, I think that I'm wrong. One of the philosophers.

SPEAKER_02 28:41

Yeah, I'm one of the philosophers. We'll we'll say Socrates. No one's gonna check, no, no one's gonna fact check us. Oh, wait a minute. Your generation will actually. That is true.

SPEAKER_03 28:49

Yeah, yeah, they will. But I uh one one comment I do want to make about today's generation is is that we here at our school see the youth of America. And I'm incredibly proud of those men and women that are coming into our profession and willing to serve. Many of them, their future is bright, so our future is bright. They have this unquenched thirst for knowledge, they have a curiosity that that forces them to go out and and make their own research on whatever it is. You know, one of the things we teach here is, you know, what's the problem, why is it happening, what can I do about it, right? Like so from the pathophysiological level, of if they don't understand why it's happening, they can't understand the treatment modalities that they're gonna they need to use. And then what, you know, I always like to ask a question of like, when you push the plunger on that medication, what's gonna happen? And it takes a level of curiosity and a level of commitment to education that I definitely see in in in our younger students. So I I think we have a lot of promise ahead of us. And this generation, they get a bad rap. Some of some individuals, we can't blanket them. There are some individuals who probably deserve it, right? But our our generation too has individuals where we deserve some of that that negative you know connotations too. So I I'm very, very hopeful, and I see that Youth of America of today, and and and I love what I'm seeing.

What Generations Need To Hear

SPEAKER_02 30:12

I had a question I wanted to ask, but I'm gonna change it up because this is so pertinent. Uh I'll ask both of you the same thing. So from your generation to you know the other generation that's sitting at the table here. What's the one thing they need to hear from the other generation? They need to hear, not just like they got to hear and understand, not just like perceive. What would a generation uh Z person say to a generation Xer that needs to learn? And vice versa, what does Generation X has to say to Gen Z that they have to learn? I think it's a great question, particularly in the first responder world, because it's become an us versus them mentality, and I'm like I'm done with that stuff. I I there's no us versus them, there's there's a unity, and we all like again, maybe I'm too dark, but we all end up at the same place, so might as well work together.

SPEAKER_03 31:01

But it's dark in that place. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:04

Yeah. So what would what do you think that Generation X has to learn maybe from a generation Z, so to speak, uh, Kira?

SPEAKER_01 31:11

I would say and and I I don't want to blanket this to absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 31:16

It's made to be a blanket statement that doesn't, if it doesn't touch you, it doesn't go for you. It's just a gener we're just talking.

SPEAKER_01 31:22

Change is okay.

SPEAKER_02 31:24

Okay, that's a good statement.

SPEAKER_01 31:26

I I think that there's gonna be a lot of change coming up in a lot of aspects of all professions and and all generations, and we have to be adaptable to the future, or else if we stay in the past, then no good will ever come from it.

SPEAKER_02 31:44

You live in the past, man. I'm sorry. To quote something. Brad, what what does Generation X have to teach Generation Z or what does Generation Z need to hear from Generation X?

SPEAKER_03 31:56

Experience matters. And I think that the experiences that we have had in in our generation, uh particularly around fire and EMS, you know, is that uh my 40 years in fire and EMS uh m gives me a view of the world and through definitely through experiences. And when when you're making decisions, you go back to you know uh uh psychology of decision making, right? You know, Gary Klein's theory of recognition prime decision making. Experience matters. I think sometimes the the younger generation doesn't appreciate that those experiences that that the older generation went through help shape the way that they see the world, the way that they see the next call, the way that they make a decision. And and and they might not appreciate that those experiences do matter in the way that I I I've said it so many times. I wish I could I wish I had a USB port where I could unzip, you know, all the experiences, zip them up, and then hand them over to to that student, to that, you know, to our new cadet, our new trainee, and and give them all of them. But I I don't believe that I think you have to have lived experiences because in my mind, experiences are visceral, right? There's emotions get that get tied to an experience. And that's what solidifies those experiences for you to help you make higher level cognitive decisions, maybe even in extremis uh in the future.

SPEAKER_02 33:27

So we gotta be willing to learn and be willing to change. And I think that's a great lesson for all of us in in all the f the EMS world particularly. I think therapists need to understand that too, because that's life. But I think that's great advice. I want to finish on this. I

Where To Get The Book

SPEAKER_02 33:45

want to you guys be able to tell me where I can get the saved effect and how I get my I'm gonna get my personal signed copy, personally, but where do I go?

SPEAKER_03 33:53

Absolutely. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 33:55

Where do where can people find that? I'm gonna definitely link it in the show notes too.

SPEAKER_03 33:59

So probably the best place to start is the saved effect.com. If you go to our website, we actually have it from there it'll link out to wherever you buy books, whether it be Amazon, Barnes and Noble, it's it's everywhere. And so even if you just Google the Save Effect, you would find it. But I think if you start off on our website, thesavedeffect.com, you can come back to our website. And if you buy it now, then we have a package in pre-sale because the book doesn't physically release until August 18th. However, in pre-sale right now, if you buy it, you're gonna get not only the the PDF of our our the transcript, the manuscript is gonna we're gonna send you a PDF right away. And we're also gonna send you the audiobook for the pre-sale that Kira and I just recorded. And that's not gonna be the final audio book that'll be for sale, because we are producing one, but something that Kira and I wanted to give to all of those folks that that joined our mission in the very beginning here in a pre-launch before we get there. So if if also you can follow us on the save effect in in both on TikTok and Twitter and not Twitter, I'm sorry, not Twitter.

SPEAKER_01 35:06

TikTok, Instagram, YouTube, and then our personals are just our names, Kira Newberry and Brad Newberry on TikTok, Instagram, YouTube.

SPEAKER_02 35:14

And I'm gonna link all that in the show notes for everyone to go see. I will be getting my own copy when it comes out. Absolutely. Now I'm now I'm super excited to hear the audiobook too, so I'm gonna be doing that. But from the bottom of my heart, I I I know that you probably hear this a lot. You've probably done a few podcasts at this point. Please come back. I would love to hear more about your stories because I think the we don't need to treat different generation as a clash. And I think that you guys are a great example. And that within families, we can still be supportive yet challenge each other. I mean, within the first responder world, not just challenge each other or push each other away, which unfortunately happens more often than not. So I want to thank you for your time and your candor, and I hope you do come back soon.

SPEAKER_03 35:58

Thank you. Thank you so much for having us. This has been a great conversation. Really enjoyed this.

SPEAKER_01 36:02

Yes, we'll definitely have to come back because we have way more to talk about.

SPEAKER_02 36:05

I I can't wait to talk about a lot of different things. So I've got like a whole sheet here, but um I wanna I want to thank everyone for listening, and I hope you come back for the next episode.

SPEAKER_00 36:17

Please

Final Thanks And Resources

SPEAKER_00 36:18

like, subscribe, and follow this podcast on your favorite platform. A glowing review is always helpful. And as a reminder, this podcast is for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. If you're struggling with a mental health or substance abuse issue, please reach out to the professional counselor for consultation. If you are in a mental health crisis, call 988 for assistance. This number is available in the United States and Canada.