E.29 A Conversation With Jessica Jamison About Weight Loss Using a Psychological Approach

In this episode, we talk to Jessica Jamison about taking a psychological approach to weight loss. Jessica is an LMHC and certified personal trainer. She also has several nutrition certificates. A wife and mother, she talks about how she grew up and where her passion for realistic, supportive nutrition and exercise goals. Her approach is all encompassing of a person's desire for change.
 
You can follow Jessica at https://www.instagram.com/revolution_hc/

You can contact Jessica for services via email at info@revolutionhc.com 

Transcript

Steve Bisson: 0:01

Hi and welcome to finding your way through therapy. I am your host, Steve Bisson. I'm an author and mental health counselor. Are you curious about therapy? Do you feel there is a lot of mystery about there? Do you wonder what your therapist is doing and why? The goal of this podcast is to make therapy and psychology accessible to all by using real language and straight to the point discussions. This podcast wants to remind you to take care of your mental health, just like you would your physical health. therapy should not be intimidating. It should be a great way to better help. I will demystify what happens in counseling, discuss topics related to mental health and discussions you can have what your thoughts, I also want to introduce psychology in everyday life. As I feel most of our lives are enmeshed in psychology. I want to introduce the subtle and not so subtle ways psychology plays a factor in our lives. It will be my own mix of thoughts as well as special guests. So join me on this discovery of therapy and psychology. Hi, and welcome to finding your way through therapy episode 29. My name is Steve v. So if you haven't listened to Episode 28, yet, I hope that you take time to listen to it. I've had Jay on multiple times, obviously. But now having Caitlin joined the fray. And the dynamic was just amazing. I really enjoyed it. So I do hope that you take the time to listen to that very soon. But this week, we have Jessica Jamison, Jessica is an lmhc and certified personal trainer who has numerous nutrition certifications. She has her own health and weight loss coaching business that she started last year as she pursues her dreams to educate individuals around health, fitness and mental health. She is a wife and a mom who understands the daily struggles about taking care of yourself and your family. And she will share hopefully a lot of those tricks with us. I'm certainly very interested myself. So I'm hoping that she gives me a few tricks. But for me, I also have known Jessica for a long time. And I don't know if that's gonna come up in the interview. But well, Hi, and welcome to Episode Nine of finding your way through therapy. I am Stevie. So I'm very excited because I am meeting with someone that I consider a friend family member even though we're not truly family. I mean, I've known your dad for 1011 years, I've been to your place for Christmas, New Years. It's just great to talk to a friend when you're doing these type of podcasts. And I'm so happy to have Jessica Jamison, who is a licensed mental health counselor on the podcast.

Jessica Jamison: 2:34

Hi. Hi, Steve. Yes, absolutely. I'm so excited to be house thrilled with you invited me to be a guest.

Steve Bisson: 2:40

Well, I've I've been wanting to talk about mental health because we know each other like friendly wise and like almost family wise, yet we don't really talk about are your mental health and what you're doing to which I think that talking about physical health is so important. So I can't wait to have this conversation because we always end up talking about kids and other stuff. And so I really want to talk about you and your work right now. So maybe we can start off by you telling me a little bit about yourself and telling your audience about yourself.

Unknown: 3:10

Absolutely. So yes, I am a licensed mental health counselor, I'm also a certified personal trainer. And then I have kind of like to say I am a therapist and health coach, I even though I take a psychological approach to weight loss, I do not practice therapy with my clients. So what I do is a little bit different. But I spent a lot of time in both fields. So I've been coaching in some capacity for probably about seven years now. But I recently lost my own business in the middle of the pandemic kind of, you know, with everyone else. Because I'm also Yep, I'm also a mom and I could not find childcare during the pandemic for my son. So it was just the perfect timing for me to do what I always wanted to do, which was combine my education and background in mental health counseling with my just passion for fitness and nutrition.

Steve Bisson: 4:11

It's very interesting, because I always find it fascinating that people go from mental health and physical health, they always embrace the two eventually because we know how interconnected it is. So you know, it's always interesting to know where people came from around that. So how was your own life and your maybe your struggles brought you to a point where you think about those things as a combined asset, so to speak.

Unknown: 4:36

Yeah, absolutely. I hope we have a lot of time here. So feel free to interrupt me.

Steve Bisson: 4:40

Go get a coffee. We'll come back in a few minutes.

Unknown: 4:42

Come back because my my story goes way back. I struggled a lot when I was younger with disordered eating and over exercise. And I don't even think until I was able to like heal my own relationship with food and exercise but I even knew what I was going through. Like, I thought it was normal, right? Like, you know, as many teenage girls do. I had no idea that it wasn't and how unhealthy I really was. You know, in high school, I severely restricted food in in a way that my family and friends, a lot of them honestly had no idea. Because I was good at it. And I got terrible headaches from under eating, I couldn't walk up a flight of stairs without being dizzy. I was put on hormone pills to get my menstrual cycle back due to being underweight. And, you know, I was told that I'd have a hard time getting pregnant, because of how I treated my body when I was younger. And that was 100%. True, I did. So that is a real thing, that when you're told that in high school, you're like, I don't care, whatever, you know, I, I'm worried about that scale, getting under 100 pounds, that's what I want. I don't care about my future kids. Right. So I really wasn't taking care of myself. In college, it actually, that was when it kind of shifted to over exercise, right? UConn had this awesome fitness center. And I kind of began to adopt the mindset of, well, if I just burn enough calories, I can eat whatever I want. So I would do hours of cardio a day, right. And no one knew, like, my parents didn't know that I would wake up at 6am, before my 8am class, go to the gym for two hours and then go back at nine o'clock at night. No one had any idea that I was doing any of that. And believe it or not, though, I was at my like heaviest weight, despite all that exercise. Because what I was doing was I was overworking my body and I was so fatigued in that I would try to solve that problem with food. Right? Because I was so tired all the time, so that I would just eat and eat and I start that vicious cycle of oh my gosh, I ate a bagel this morning, I have to go to the gym and burn that off.

Steve Bisson: 7:01

The whole process of wanting to burn out food by working out is just a, you know, it's a crazy concept. But it's something that our distorted thoughts really bring us to

Unknown: 7:11

it. It took me so long Steve to ditch that, that belief. And I always tell my clients now, I want you to exercise because you love it. And it's something you enjoy, I actually do not recommend it or weight loss at all. Because we just we get stuck in that of like, well, I'm going to exercise so I can eat. And really exercise has so many other benefits that we should, you know, focus on rather than how it's gonna affect the scale. Absolutely. And I guess the rest of my story is kind of that transition of like, how does exercise become like a really positive thing in my life. It was towards the end of college, I really got into rock climbing. And also begin living with a close friend who was studying strength and conditioning, and a man that I love what she was learning. Like I was fascinated by what she was learning. Right? So we took a couple of nutrition classes together, we would go to the gym and list and she would like teach me everything. She was learning how to classes. And I slowly began to like just ditch all of that excess cardio. And I spent my time on the tennis court, I spent my time in the climbing gym or in the weight room. And yeah, that kind of like sounds like a lot of activity, right? But what was different was my mindset. I was exercising, because I wanted to be strong, not skinny. Right? You know, I wanted to be a better climber than all the boys. You know, like, I was like, What do you be like, I can't do pull up like that, like, you know, hell yeah, I'm gonna get there. So again, that meant you know, less time, elliptical, more time with the weight. And I was when I really got my confidence back. And that was what really allowed me to let go of a lot of the food rules that I had. So I truly feel again, like you said, you know, how is that physical health and mental health connected. When I felt strong physically, again, my mental health is in such a better place. And to this day, I truly feel like two things change my life. One was the rock climbing community because it made me finally feel like I was a part of something and I had the support that I you know, that I needed, and strength training. And to this day, I absolutely love training teams, because I think it's amazing what happens to their confidence levels when they begin to you know, recognize and honor their physical strength.

Steve Bisson: 9:36

That was a mouthful, right? There are so many. I've got like 12 follow up questions, but I'm gonna try to go under a couple of things. You know, you talk about confidence. And I think that that is absolutely key because when we focus on on girls, especially under 18, but boys are the same thing is that the lack of confidence is what makes us have like What I would call body dysmorphia, I'm not diagnosing anyone, but we look at our bodies differently because our lack of confidence, how does someone really go from having that body dysmorphia to increase confidence? I mean, I'm sure that there's no pill. And just for the record, there's also not one session of 30 minutes that's going to change that. But do you have any suggestions on how that could work? Especially for teens? Because the self esteem is so difficult that that age?

Unknown: 10:25

Right, yeah, I think it takes a lot of time. And again, we really have to work on both. Again, both that physical strength feeding strength, any piece, but but also mindset, so when I work with adolescent clients, we have to combine the two and, you know, really teach them the like, because, because it can also go the other way, right? Like you, you know, I've worked with some teenagers to feel really defeated, because they're not strong enough to do what they their friends do, or they're not strong enough to do what they think they should be doing. And that's when we really just have to take a step back, and focus on their journey in their progress. And that's where we have to, you know, really start small. So for adolescents or teenagers and anyone new to strength training, or new to exercise, I always encourage you to start, you know, really small, and that way, we get those like those little wins right off the bat. And that's what keeps you going.

Steve Bisson: 11:27

But not signing up for a marathon next week, because I'm going to start working out today.

Unknown: 11:32

Oh, exactly. Yes. You can, you can maybe sign up for a 5k First, start training for that, and then move on to that half marathon. And finally the full.

Steve Bisson: 11:44

Right, I agree, I sign up for the couch first, and I go 5k, and so on and so forth. No, maybe going with the couch first, learning how to go with the mindset because I think that you talked about confidence. And it's also letting people in, I think that one of the things that is so difficult for adults and children and adolescent children is letting people in with your own struggles. Was there a point in your personal life, that you let people in on all these difficulties that you had?

Unknown: 12:13

Ah, see, that's really tough. There was very few,

Steve Bisson: 12:18

a hard hitting show, just remember that?

Unknown: 12:20

Yes, there was a very few people in my life that actually knew what I was going through it. If they did, no, no one said a word to me. Right? Because I mean, how hard is that right now? So maybe, maybe my friends and family knew more than they did. But if they did, they'd never said a thing to me. So I think it was it was the people that I was physically living with. So again, that their roommate who was studying strength and conditioning, who is still my very best friend today, you know, she knew my best friend from high school knew. But other than that, I went through most of the struggles alone. And I think that's why that community that I had with rock climbing really helped me because again, it made me feel like I was part of something rather than feeling just so alone all the time.

Steve Bisson: 13:12

And that's kind of why I wanted to kind of bring that up, because being alone and all that it's difficult, so hard question to bring up anyone? Hey, are you overeating or having disorder or disordered eating? Or you're working out too much? What the hell's wrong with you? It's a hard conversation.

Unknown: 13:28

Right? And I would, I would actually often get praised for it. You know, like, there's a lot of people in my life would be like, Oh, wow, like, weren't you just at the gym earlier this morning? Like, good for you? You know, in reality, it wasn't really good at all.

Steve Bisson: 13:44

That positive reinforcement is hard to break, right? Yeah, absolutely. Because that's the confidence you get praise from other people, you don't have your confidence, then that increases your confidence. So I kept doing it. Right. And I think that leads to good question that you you know, that I feel goes with that too, is that how do we raise confidence so much? You know, and how, what's the psychological approach to that weight loss in the sense that we're not thinking about getting praise from other people that really getting in for self validation and not validated by anybody else?

Unknown: 14:17

Yeah, absolutely. I think, you know, it really depends on who I'm working with for that. Because I think a lot of people, you know, might look and see confidence as a very different thing. Like, for me, again, my physical strength always helped me feel confident, and other people might not care about that at all. So I think it's really understanding, you know, what you want, and what's going to help you feel confident and strong or whatever words you want to use. And then going in that direction, whatever that might be.

Steve Bisson: 14:53

Well, you know, and again, just a reminder, we're listening to finding your way through therapy. I'm sitting here with Jessica and Steve D. So what We're talking about mental health, working out exercise and the combination of the two, because that's what Jessica does. When the questions that came up when I was listening to you right now it is what you want. Because I think that sometimes what we want doesn't come from a, you know, internal locus of control. I don't want to bother everyone with psychology too much here, because, you know, but it you know, you need it needs to come from you, when you get an external locus of control. Oh, you know, Steve, you're looking good. Oh, you got up at five to go to the gym. But if I don't have a good internal locus of control, I give the power to everyone else. How do we shift that mindset?

Unknown: 15:39

Oh, that's a tough one. I think, again, that that takes a lot of work. And I think I spend a lot of time with clients talking about the difference between that like internal and external control or motivation, whatever you want to call it. And I actually don't really like that word, motivation.

Steve Bisson: 15:59

Okay, tell me why. Tell me why don't you like that?

Unknown: 16:02

Because what I mean, like I said, What is it? Right? Like,

Steve Bisson: 16:07

I don't know, this is my second language. You gotta help me.

Unknown: 16:12

Motivate it fails us, right, like, motivation as it fails us. And it's because it's, it's this all this ever changing, ever shifting thing in our lives? Sometimes. It's external. Sometimes it's internal, like, why is external motivation, always a bad thing? Like, it's kind of gets a bad rap. But sometimes that's what you need to get you going until, like you said, you're able to make that the shift to internal motivation to keep you going in the long term. So I don't know, I always start with my clients with discipline. And then in then discipline comes first. And then motivation might kick in.

Steve Bisson: 16:54

Well, I, you know, the, you know, as your that question, but I wanted to, I'm gonna give you my point of view. And obviously, it's up to you as the expert. But from my perspective, motivation is wrong in the sense that we think about it as a, it's almost a perfectionist thing. You're not motivated enough, it's somehow your fault. And if you're motivated too much, that's again, your fault. And it's almost like a perfectionist thing to have motivation. Because there's days where, you know, I'll be up at seven like today, go for a walk, clean the house, get ready for this interview, do a bunch of stuff. And then there's days where I look at the clock at eight, and I'm like, I could sleep another hour. And that's not because I'm a faulty human being that I'm, quote, not motivated. It's just because we're different people in different days.

Unknown: 17:38

Exactly. talk and talk about something that can affect your confidence when you're feeling like that. You know, now you're not you're saying, Well, I'm a failure, because I'm not as motivated as that other person is. So definitely, absolutely.

Steve Bisson: 17:50

So yeah, I You were you were gonna go with motivation, because I remember seeing and we'll share that in the show notes. Because you have an Instagram, and you have a tick tock, and you talked about that. So that's kind of why I wanted to go there. Yeah. But yeah, I think that motivation is such a perfectionist thing, in my opinion, anyway. And I know that it's a very complex question to ask, but besides maybe discipline, is there other parts of our psyche that can really be improved to get to where we want to be?

Unknown: 18:24

I think discipline is definitely a big one, I think because a lot of time, you're not going to be motivated. And it just takes it takes doing it anyways. Other parts of our psyche, you know, I think, consistency, if you're able to tap into that, that's huge for people and because again, a consistency is what's gonna give you those small wins, and increase that confidence and keep you going long term. But really, I that those are my two big things with clients, I think is in we tend to do that, you know, and I'm sure we'll dive into this later, we really focus on habit change. So understanding why you're doing what you're doing is a piece of it, but my big focus with people is what do you want to be doing instead? You know, what? Do I care? Why, yeah, I mean, I do but what I really care about is how we're going to go forward and tapping into you know, what you want to see yourself doing instead and how to get there. Well, you know, we're

Steve Bisson: 19:37

talking about habit change and instead of waiting a little later on maybe we can talk about I know for me, the habit change I got me to running is not to have a personal bests every single Ron. Yeah, that really changed my way of thinking one of the things that I do with some of my clients who are people who work out or exercise 90 I don't even like workout and exercise that As much as words anyway, but you know, they're like, Oh, well, you know, this was a tough 5k was tough half marathon was a tough day. And I'm like, Well, it's the best you did on blank day at that time. That's the best you can do. And there was 14 factors that played a factor. So that's one of the habits change, I've implemented not only my life, but when I'm talking to clients, is there other habit change that you recommend or things that you work on on that?

Unknown: 20:25

Yeah, absolutely. And again, it all comes from what that person wants to change. But there's lots of lots of different things that we can do. Yeah, that that shift that you talked about with exercise is one of them. And then there's a lot more that also have to do with with food and take an eating. So with clients, I actually talk very minimal about like the nitty gritties of nutrition. And my focus is really on, again, what's behind the choices that you're making? And what do you want to be doing instead? So in terms of like, habit changes, we've talked about how to set yourself up for success. So if you're, if you know that you're struggling with meal planning, like, alright, you know, instead of saying, like, I'm just going to, I'm going to plan my meal seven days a week, how about, we just get you into the habit of planning your breakfast two days a week? Right, and we build and we build off that, or an exercise example, if someone says, you know, I want to get into the habit of exercising? Okay, you know, like, what does that mean? And I, a lot of my clients will say, I should be exercising five days a week. Okay, great. How are we going to go from zero to five? What we're actually going to do is try to start with one, right, get you consistent with one, right? And set you up for success by do we get you into the habit, first of putting your gym clothes out every morning, so you can see them? You know, it gets you into the habit of packing your gym bag, at least whether you take the gym bag with you or not, at least you're in the habit of packing it beforehand. Right. And again, it's about those very small steps to change those, those larger habits for the long haul.

Steve Bisson: 22:21

And what I'm hearing about your habit change is that it's it's gradual, not instantaneous. And I think that taking away that instantaneous gratification, that we all seek really, to go for those small wins before you get the big one, as you said earlier, exactly. You know, the one habit that I developed a few years ago, and I still do, and obviously there's no visual to this, but I grab a coffee in the morning, but I also grabbed a bottle of water. Yeah, just just to kind of like, balance out so to speak. Is there small changes, I think water to me is when clients tell me, what should I change drink water? That's one of my first things that I talked about when we talked about changes even in your health, physical health, do you have any other like small health tidbits that you would offer to people to just do minimal changes, just like the breakfast twice a week or anything like that?

Unknown: 23:14

Yeah, I think you'd be brought up a really good one. So that's the concept that I like to call habit bundling, which is kind of like a really a cool way to like hack your habits, right. So you pair something that you that you already do with something that you want to be doing. So you already drink your coffee, but you want to be drinking more water. So now before you have your coffee, coffee in the morning, you're gonna drink you know, that bottle of water has that bottle of water. So that's that concept of habit bundling is a really great one to again, start just making like those tiny little tweaks. There's lots of different strategies that we can use. And I think one of the biggest things is we also have to identify how our habits are serving us. Right, that's the thing about a habit is it's a it's an automatic thing that you started doing and then you keep doing it, you might not even realize. So we do something because it's serving us in some way. So we kind of have to break down what that is in order to change it. And the other thing with it when it comes to habits is you never just want to completely stop something you always want to replace it. You know, so like, say you decided I want to give up coffee. Never right? I know. Crazy. Okay,

Steve Bisson: 24:33

this is it. This interview is over. So

Unknown: 24:37

we could use the example of like alcohol to but that's probably another one where you'd be like never

Steve Bisson: 24:42

more accepting of the alcohol.

Unknown: 24:45

A lot of a lot of people would be like, No way. But say you decided like I want to give up coffee. Okay. We have to think about replacing that habit with something else because it's going to be a lot easier for you if you say I'm going to replace coffee with tea for a little while. They'll than it is to just be like, I'm going to cut it out completely. And just like kind of like, you know, quit cold turkey. So that's another really important strategy and part of the process.

Steve Bisson: 25:10

Yes. And I think that the deprivation thought process is where the problem lies personally. Because if you go, you know, I'm going to stop coffee, and you don't replace it with tea or water or gradually go down from, and I'm ashamed to say, but I have like four to five cups of coffee a day. Don't worry, I sleep fine. But going from four to five to going down to three by the end of next month. And doing it gradually. I think that that's when you talk about, you know, the habit change. As New Year approaches, when this episode comes out, it's one of those things that I have a huge issue with. I'll talk about my own podcast next week, but I think it might be very, very apropos right now the talk about stopping suddenly, or starting something suddenly ever works. I don't know if you have any own views on that?

Unknown: 26:04

Yeah, no, it doesn't. And for the reasons that we've kind of just talked about, again, like, what you were doing, or what you were not doing what's serving you in some way. So why would you just completely just try to stop, you know, there's, there was a reason behind whatever that habit was in the first place. And we gotta, we gotta seek to understand that otherwise, it's not going to be it, or whatever the change you're trying to making isn't going to be sustainable. And that's what it's all about, right? Like, a cool, like you gave up coffee for a week. Great. But like, What about next year? Isn't that what the ultimate goal was, was to get you to give it up long term. So the sudden stop and start, you're right, they never work. And that's what I see a lot of times with dieting, and people who go on diets as you get that sudden start and that sudden stop. And that's just it, it leads to this, this vicious cycle that people get stuck in. Sitting here with

Steve Bisson: 27:06

Jessica Jamison, and my name is Steve de sel, I'm where this is finding your way through therapy. We're talking about a great subject here. And I think that a good transition here is a little bit of the connection between mental health and physical health. Because I think that that's so intrinsically linked, I can tell you that when I work out, I might be physically tired, but mental, in a mental way, I'm much more sharp, I feel much better, may not be the first day that occurs. But you know, eventually it gets that Do you have any other connections with the physical and mental health that you find that are very important to think about?

Unknown: 27:40

Yeah, I mean, our mind and body, I think are so much more connected than people realize, as you said, and in making the lifestyle habit changes that we've been talking about really goes a long way in boosting how we feel both inside and out both our mental health and our physical health, you know, and exercise. And, really, I think you said you don't love that term, either. So let's call it movement is often part of the treatment plan for depression, anxiety, right? Like, we know that there's a reason for that. And as I shared in my own story, strength training was what made me such a more confident person. So if that's not perfect example of how our physical and mental health are connected, then that other side of when you're not feeling your body, you know, you fit properly, right, you physically don't feel well, you know, you your your stomach hurts your head, you get headaches, you're low energy, those are all physical symptoms. And then, but But you know, the other side of when you're not even proud of your food choices, you're frustrated with yourself, you're ashamed, you feel guilty. Of course, that's impacting your mental health.

Steve Bisson: 28:54

I think another good point that you just brought up shame. Yeah. And eating and not working out or exercising movement or whatever you want to call it plays a huge factor. Do you want to talk a little more about how the shame plays a factor?

Unknown: 29:09

Yeah, it does. I think it really gets people stuck. And it's one of those things that like, just breaks my heart to see people just beating themselves up for this kind of stuff. Because again, it I truly believe that especially exercise should be something that that you love. So, you know, I always want it to be something that my clients want to be doing versus something that they have to be doing. Because it's that I have to be doing this and then when we don't do it, that's where those feelings of shame come in. You know, and just, yeah, I mean, eating, eating is the same way. You know, like, who cares if you ate you ate the donut, or the cake or the ice cream? Like, it's, you care, right, like, but most of the time people, you know, it's not really a big deal. So we have to just find ways so just not make it a big deal.

Steve Bisson: 30:04

And I think that the other thing too is I, there's so many things that came to mind when you were talking about that when you talk about shame in particular. I tell people that what shame does is that it's it feels more shame. Yeah, absolutely. You're shameful. So you're gonna go and say, well, I need to feel better. Let me go grab that doughnut, that hamburger from us fast food joint not trying to pick on anyone here. And then you get that sugar high for a second, but then you kind of still feel guilty for having that. Yep. 1100 Calorie blankety blank Hamberger. So I think that that's the other part too is do you how do we combat a little bit of that shame field? feeling shame with people? Yeah,

Unknown: 30:45

I think that's a tough one. But I think my first step was people who just who are in that kind of cycle that you just talked about, is we got to work on neutralizing who talk in ditching food labels. You know, like saying things like, oh, like, I feel ashamed that I ate that because fast food is bad. Okay, well, maybe it wasn't really bad for you in that moment. You know, like, maybe it was actually that kind of just like, quick, convenient meal that you needed, because you had a busy night ahead of you. And there's nothing to be ashamed for. Because you've made that choice, because that's, it wasn't really a bad choice. In the moment, it was what you needed for your life that day. So really, again, trying to neutralize the way we've talked to ourselves about food and ditching those those labels again, and that can work for exercise, too. You know, I get asked all the time, well, what's good exercise? What's bad, you know, what's, what's better? What's an it's like, whatever you want to do? Just move. Right? You know, you don't have to be ashamed for whatever exercise choice that you do, because it's different from someone else. Hey, you're moving. And that's amazing.

Steve Bisson: 31:53

It's one of the things that kept me from going to do yoga for years. Because it wasn't a dude thing to do. Yeah. I really don't care anymore, and not trying to plug anything in particular, but I go to Hot yoga center not far from here. That's really amazing. They've, they're very, very, very advanced. And none of them have like, they're like, Oh, that's great. You're making efforts and they've always been supportive. And I think that that's one of the preconceptions of we're working on your shame is to just show up.

Unknown: 32:24

Yeah, absolutely. I love that.

Steve Bisson: 32:27

You know, I think that that's the hardest part about mental health and physical health. I think when people just say like, what are they going to think of me? I have my own misconceptions about how I'm going to be seen in a group of people who do yoga on a regular basis. And I had not only my own physical health and my own mental blockage about what were they going to think some guy with a shaved head and a goatee coming into yoga? Who does he think he is? Those are all the self limiting thoughts that we do. And I think that that plays a huge factor in what you know. And I, I also talked about the conditionals I think that it's one of my episodes, I cannot recall which one but I talked about, like, you know, if but try coulda, shoulda woulda and probably as being such deterrence to any type of actions. Yeah.

Unknown: 33:15

Absolutely. Yeah.

Steve Bisson: 33:16

When you talked about that, it really struck me. Neutralizing food talk is a very interesting subject, too. Because I think that that's the whole thing, right? Is that we kind of like look at food talk and say, Oh, hamburgers aren't good for you? Well, 12 Hamburgers aren't good for you. Right? Right. One hamburger, they're gonna harm you. It's okay. It's so

Unknown: 33:36

situation dependent and person, you know, depends on the person. And it's hard though a lot of people have a really hard time with it. Because we, we've grown up like, I definitely grew up in a family who labeled food. And it's so hard because like, I see, like, even my mom doing it with my son. And I'm like, No. Or using food as a reward. Right? That's kind of under that. Like, like we that is so hard not to do. But an exercise I always like to do with clients is if you if you write on a piece of paper you write, you know, my good food lists my bad food list and just in the center, just right food. Right and see how many you can't, you know, my guess is that bad food less, it's gonna be pretty long. But what is it really? It's food. Right? It's just food. You're the one that's probably putting the label of good and bad on it.

Steve Bisson: 34:35

That's probably a good visual for a lot of people.

Unknown: 34:37

Yeah, I think yeah, it's one of my favorite exercises.

Steve Bisson: 34:41

You know, I follow someone on Tiktok that is a certified dietitian. And as we approach to holidays, were probably in the holidays as this is being released, but we're recording a little before that. One of the things she talks about is when you go in what foods should you avoid at Thanksgiving and she says, foods that you're allergic to. Yep. And foods that you don't like, right? Those are the two you should avoid. And she's like, No, you eat and you eat reasonably and it's okay. If you quote over eat, you don't need to overcompensate by spending 60 extra minutes on whatever cardio machine you like.

Unknown: 35:24

Exactly. I love that. I've heard that before, too. That is perfect.

Steve Bisson: 35:27

And I think that she, she's someone I really enjoy what reading because there's so many people like, oh, you know, you should really avoid cranberry sauce, like, cranberries or fruit and vegetable, it's fruit. It's a fruit.

Unknown: 35:40

Right? That's the perfect example of like cranberry sauce in your head. You're like, oh, what? That's a good food. It's a fruit that has a lot of nutritional value. But the person next to you said that it's like, no, that's a bad food. So like, who? Who is making up these labels? Where are they coming from, you know, something that we really have to think about?

Steve Bisson: 35:58

Yeah, and I think that that neutralizing that self that self talk about food is so important. You know, go back to a little bit of the personal stuff, you know, like labeling food as good or bad is probably also something we all pick up from our families. Yes. And I'm not trying to do this any family in particular, but how do we combat that? So that we're at the Thanksgiving table? And someone says, are you getting us that much gravy?

Unknown: 36:24

Yeah, it's so tough. Because, again, it's just part of like, the diet culture that's out there. And we don't even you don't even realize what we're saying and the effect that it could have on someone. So just say nothing. I mean, honestly, like, like, have always just try that. Just don't comment on what people are eating and what they're putting into their bodies. Let them make the choice that they're making, and just, you know, pay attention to yourself, you know, so I just think just don't just don't like keep your mouth shut. Don't comment, don't comment on what people are eating, or I think even how they look, you know, because that can be kind of dicey to in mind, if you if you are saying things or your ears, you're talking about food, you know, you're making sure that it's that we're neutral, trying to think of some examples. You know, like, with young kids, I try to teach families instead of saying that food cereal is bad for you, because there's a lot of sugar. You know, okay, try saying something like, cereal is high in sugar. So it's gonna give you a quick energy boost. But you might feel hungry a little while after, you know, after eating it. So how about we you know, we have cereal and neck. And so take a more like educational approach. Because it's perfectly okay to teach kids about food. We just don't want to label it for them. One of

Steve Bisson: 37:53

the words that I use even with my kids or even my clients is like, anything in excess is bad. Yeah.

Unknown: 38:01

Right. Yeah. Moderation. Exactly. Yeah, that extra?

Steve Bisson: 38:05

Take that extra m&m. Exactly. Right. Don't finish the two pound back, though. That's

Unknown: 38:13

right. And teaching them why, you know, like, okay, because if you eat all those m&ms, you're probably gonna get a tummy ache after and that's not gonna feel very good.

Steve Bisson: 38:21

And I'm gonna take the other person approach. So you're talking about maybe not saying anything, which I think that a lot of people can learn and do that. But what about if you're, for lack of a better word, told that I was going to use another word, but told us better. So let's say someone sits next to you and says, you're really going to eat that? How do we combat that? Because that brings instant shame for a lot of people, especially if you have excess, if you have excess or very low body weight. That is very, very much a shame based response when people say, so how do we combat that from that perspective?

Unknown: 38:56

Right. Yeah, so that person, gotcha, that person is being told that. I think it's just, again, tuning into your body's needs. And I think you can even say that, you know, like, you know, I'm eating the mashed potatoes and gravy, because I enjoy it. And it feels my body for this family football game or going to play later. I think and even just saying, Oh, I like it. You know, it's a food that I enjoy. So it's okay for me to eat this.

Steve Bisson: 39:26

I have a few choice words when people tell me not to eat something. Yeah. starts with the letter F and ends with duck. But trying to keep it family oriented. Try not to get a little explicit checkbox next to my podcast. Yeah. Do you think it's also important to set that boundary of hey, I don't I don't really appreciate you commenting on what I eat. Maybe you should concentrate on you.

Unknown: 39:51

Yeah, absolutely. I think if you feel comfortable saying that. Why not?

Steve Bisson: 39:55

Well, it's family you should be able to say that the worst worst case scenario is seen once a year and if not You see them often that means they respect you.

Unknown: 40:02

Yeah, I think exactly, I think, yeah, definitely communicating your boundaries is important

Steve Bisson: 40:08

for sure. Because I'm sure that you know, if your husband ever said that, to me, I think my choice words would be what I said earlier, right. But I don't think he'd ever do that to me. So just making a joke here. But yeah, that's the stuff that we talked about. I talked a little bit about tick tock, and social media, to me is the best evil thing ever. And what I mean by that is that it can keep you connected to people, it can make you feel less alone. But it can also bring comparisons and very, very difficult situation. So how much of social media and overall social pressure distort our own views of self,

Unknown: 40:47

oh, my gosh, I love the way you put that as it being like the most evil investing ever, because I definitely feel that way. And I'm very new to social media, I didn't really exist very much before I launched my own business. You know, and I'll have to be honest, I think I really had to check myself with my own behaviors. Because social media is definitely for lack of a better word, I'll say the trigger for for me, for someone who has struggled with disordered eating and self image and body image for so long. Because it you're plastering your body all over the place out there. And it brought back a lot of negative thoughts. For me, when I started doing that, in terms of comparing myself to especially other trainers and fitness professionals, also out there on social media. And you don't really know that, I might have tried that reel 1000 times and recorded 1000 times before I actually clicked post. And so yeah, there's just so much that goes on behind the scenes of social media that we don't know. So it's, it's tough, and I feel my heart goes out to our youth out there. For again, social media being this such an amazing thing in their lives. But also, you know, this, this means for, for a lot of, you know, comparison, and I think, you know, for me, like, what's helped me is knowing that people are probably going to judge me anyways. You know, they're gonna, they're gonna judge me whether I post that day or not, they're gonna judge me whether my real guests three views or gets 3000 views. You know, that's just how people are. So why bother worrying about it?

Steve Bisson: 42:29

It's a good point. I mean, I worked with someone for a while and a nonprofit in regards to social media and effects on teens. And one of the things that we talked about is, Be okay with yourself, number one. And also know that the person that took that selfie took on average 13 selfies before choosing? Exactly, yeah. And sometimes they do it because they're not feeling good about themselves. And they're looking for some of that external validation. And it's not necessarily their best day, and you don't know what the behind the scene is. So do you find that some of the people that come and see you are kind of distorted by that social media and the social media pressure and pressure in general from so it's like, you know, a woman has to be, you know, what's the new new norm for, quote, regular women, 571 30 and perfect body? And I'm making that up. I have no clue what it is. But I think it's just crazy, because I just think it's crazy personally, but

Unknown: 43:27

I don't really know, either, because I don't care. But yeah, I think a lot of my clients aren't big on social media, a lot of them, a lot of them use it, but they're not, it's not going to, you know, consume their lives, I more see that with the adolescents that I've trained over the years. You know, they come into their session and alcohol just I gotta show you this video on you know, whatever platform it is. But I mean, social media and not we're, we're still comparing ourselves to other people that we see every day, whether it's on a Facebook post or the grocery store. So you know, no matter what we really have to, to work on that.

Steve Bisson: 44:06

Yeah. And I think that that's why like, a little bit of the next question that I wanted to ask you, is the dreaded BMI. Yeah, to me, to me, the worst thing that ever existed on the medical front was the BMI. I'll give you my views afterwards. But what are your views of the BMI?

Unknown: 44:24

I don't love BMI. I don't use it as a qualitative measure with clients. It's not a measurement that, you know, I'm taking I ask people their weight and their height, but I don't calculate BMI. My knowledge of BMI comes with obsessively calculating it for myself in high school and college, right? Like, I would literally sit on my computer and I would Google BMI calculators and I would try like different ones and like be like, Oh, like that was like point different and you know, like, oh my gosh, like, you know, why is that number coming up different or? I play around and I put in a heavier weight and a lighter weight? I can see what the BMI number was, which is obviously not healthy. Right? Not good. And I think we were talking about it, you know, before recording, because I lift weights, my BMI is on the higher end, you know, it's still still normal, but it's on a very high as as normal. And it's because you know, I have a lot of muscle mass. So, weight BMI, and we have to be careful, I think some people respond really well to measure measurements like that, like, some are just, they're just very, they're numbers, people. And I'm not, I'm not against, that if someone really wants to track, you know, client of mine really wants to track those things. I'm not against it. But we have to really take a deep look at at this meeting, you know, behind the summers and make sure that it's not becoming this like unhealthy obsession, and that we're focused on other measures of progress as well.

Steve Bisson: 46:01

Like I said, before the recording, if I really was in my normal BMI, most people think would come over and look at me and say, Steve, are you okay? Are you sick? What's going on? You look like you're dying. And I think that that BMI is created such a distorted view of what our weight should be, and what it should look like, overall, and I've always encouraged my clients to

Unknown: 46:26

how do you feel like you made? Yep. How do you feel

Steve Bisson: 46:30

about your 571 50? But how are you feeling? Right? I'm feeling good, or I'm feeling healthy. I just don't like the number. And I'm like, It's a number. I knew it would happen. At the end of the day, I think that that's what I tell people is that isn't our health, our own view of ourselves and how we feel?

Unknown: 46:51

Yeah, absolutely. I get that question from clients all the time. It's like, well, what should I weigh? I don't know. Well, we have to see how you feel along the way, you know, right? Like, my, my focus is clients is never really, it's never really the number on the scale. And yes, I call myself a weight loss coach, because that's what people want, right? That's the ultimate thing that they want is to lose weight. But it's really, as we talked about today, about so much more than that. So as we're actually losing weight, or inches, or whatever, we're always talking about, okay, how do you feel? How's your energy? How's your hunger? How are you sleeping, and just really try to focus on more things like that, you know, in learning how to tune into how you feel,

Steve Bisson: 47:40

I balance out a lot. In my book, and I in general, with my clients, I talk about the mind body spirit connection, and how you know, your mind and your body and your spirit are all connected? And how if you balance that out the best you can, you can probably feel a whole lot better about yourself. And do you have any recommendations in regards to how to perceive slow progress? Because I think that that's what people struggle the most. Yeah, I definitely, you know, I've had clients who've had, you know, stomach stapling, and, you know, bodies, stomach sleeves, and they lose 28 pounds in a month, which is awesome. But you know, there is, you know, they can't eat, there's a lot of like pain, there's a lot of different things that go with that. And I don't know if I recommend that to everyone, I certainly recommend it to those who need it. But how do we see like, Oh, crap, I only lost I lost two pounds the first week, but the second week, I lost no pounds. How do we kind of like combat that?

Unknown: 48:37

Here? Right? It's so, so tough for people, because they they want results fast? Because we definitely see a lot. You know, we see TV commercials with people losing 20 pounds in a month or, again, it's plastered all over social media, these weight loss programs that get you these crazy results crazy fast, and there's just not a reality. And it's not reality, because it doesn't really work in the long term. So take it taking it back to any progress is good progress. What are the Wiener no matter how small they are? How you know, and if you didn't make the progress that you wanted to make, how come and how can you learn from it, you know, how is that going to help you moving forward? Because that's learning to that's another form of progress. It's just maybe a little different than the one that you had in mind. And I also do a lot of work with clients around you know, yeah, you your goal this week was to lose two pounds. You lost point two. Are you happy? Like can you sustain the point to that you lost like, Did you you know, maybe you had ice cream this week, and you're finally seeing like, oh, like, you know, I can I can eat something I love and enjoy and the skill didn't go up. That's a huge win. Again, another sign of progress. It

Steve Bisson: 50:00

And I think that that's always important to see that progress. Again, listening to Jessica Jameson with Stevie saw here, finding your way through therapy, one of the things that I get very annoyed with in regards to the progress that people make, and when they're looking for sudden stuff, I don't adhere to any particular diet, type in, I'm not going to put down any of them, I will put them all in the same category of garbage, in the sense that we all have to have our own kind of nutrition plan in order to do so. So what do you say to someone that says, Well, you know, I just did that. Those stupid cleanses just drive me absolutely bonkers. I did like a pancreas cleanse or whatever they call them like, yeah, that's what your pancreas does. That's what your liver how do we combat people who have may have those thoughts? And like, I lost 10 pounds drinking only apple cider vinegar? How do we combat those individuals who like they saw the result? But they're like, how do we combat those thought processes?

Unknown: 51:04

I think it's just, it's, I'm all for meeting people where they at? You know, and honestly, if someone if someone came to me and said, okay, just like I really want to try this cleanse, I'm probably not going to talk you out of it, you know, chances are, I'm gonna let you do it. And then, you know, see for yourself that it would probably not was the best decision for you know, X, Y, and Z. Because if I try to, you know, you're not going to you don't care what, but you've already got in your head that you're going to do it. So I can't change your mind, necessarily. But I think it goes back to well, did it get you the results that you wanted? And were you able to sustain it? Do you want to continue living your life, every month doing a cleanse? Or would you rather find a way to just find balance to achieve their health goals that you're after. And a lot of times, it takes people a while to come around. And it's no fault to them again, that that diet culture is still out there. And it's until we find a different way that we don't realize what we were doing to ourselves and how it really wasn't working for us. I think you said,

Steve Bisson: 52:19

you know, the psychological standpoint of meeting people where they're at. I think that that's a very good point. I, I'm not known to hold my tongue. So even if my clients say, I'm going to do whatever cleanse that comes out, I'm like, how's that gonna help you?

Unknown: 52:37

But how do we meet

Steve Bisson: 52:41

individuals where they're at, let's say, for example, someone struggling to find out that to try to get you know, more movement on being careful being mindful of what they're eating. And turns out that they may have had a psychological trauma, or they're struggling with major depression disorder, just or, you know, postpartum depression, or what have you. How do we kind of like move that conversation from this is not about food or exercise, but it could be about more of your mental health.

Unknown: 53:10

Yeah. And I said, when we started, I analyze this mental health counselor, but I'm not doing therapy with clients. That's for someone else. And a lot of clients that come to me, they they need to do the work that you're referring to first, health coaching would be that like, that next step for them. But you know, I'm not doing something like, you know, I'm not processing trauma with clients. So I'm very focused on how to move forward. Yeah, I mean, I care about your past.

Steve Bisson: 53:42

But so do you recommend that they go to a therapist or anything like that? Depends,

Unknown: 53:47

it really depends. And like I said, I, I will be honest with someone, if I if they come to me, and I don't think they're the right fit, because they might need therapy first, or in addition to health coaching, again, they're different, right? Like health coaching has its foundation and therapy, but they're different. So yeah, I think we have to be really careful. And I try to be really careful about that making sure that someone gets the right support. It's really, they're not ready to dive into food and exercise habits quite yet. Because there's some there's some deeper things that they need to work through.

Steve Bisson: 54:26

I think that's a great message to give that sometimes got to do a deep dive into your mental health. That doesn't mean you don't do health coaching at the same time. Right. But, you know, you're like, you know, I know you. You don't do the trauma work, but certainly like, you know, maybe perhaps you need to go see a therapist to work on how you were perceived physically by your ex in regards to your weight, or something like that. That's not something I do, but I can send you to Jane, John frame. Exactly. Jamie, whatever. I think that that's important because I talked about that at the beginning one of my first session my first sessions as always, like when was your last physical? And if it's not within the year, I want you to go get your physical because I don't want to diagnose you with a mental health issue when it's maybe low sugars or hypothyroidism. I certainly share that in my book too, in regards to that my ex wife who had hypothyroidism issue, at the end of the day, I think that giving the right person is so important. And I think that you're you have a combined mental health background with the health coach, but concentrating on one thing and finding someone who does the others. Exactly, for sure. So, now that we've heard all the great things about you, as we wrap up here, how can people reach you to maybe connect about health coaching or anything else? Or maybe even just to consult with you?

Unknown: 55:47

Absolutely. You know, my email, and dams are always open to people. And I love hearing people's stories I really do. That's why I became a therapist in the first place was because I just love hearing people's stories. So absolutely feel free to reach out. I am on mailing on Instagram, at revolution underscore HC, I'm also on Facebook, you can find me I think it's at just revolution health. And then all of my social media links are on my website. And there's where you can contact me with contact for my what's on my website as well. That's probably the easiest way to reach me. And that's revolution hd.com.

Steve Bisson: 56:29

I'll put that in the show notes for sure. So that way people know how to reach you. And you do virtual?

Unknown: 56:34

Yes, my entire business is virtual personal training and health coaching.

Steve Bisson: 56:39

Because I don't want anyone thinking that you're restricted to Massachusetts, but they can reach you from Hawaii, Brazil, Europe, and make sure that they know they know that you can be reached out by

Unknown: 56:51

absolutely, yeah, that's it was a it was a huge shift for me to go from in person coaching to virtual, but it's really opened up so many doors in that regard. And I can reach so many more

Steve Bisson: 57:00

people. Well, time flew, we already kind of did a full hour. I can't tell you how much I appreciate the conversation gave a lot of good information. I think that there's going to be a whole lot of people who are going to find this very helpful. So thank you so much for this conversation.

Unknown: 57:17

Thank you, Steve. This was a lot of fun.

Steve Bisson: 57:19

Well, this concludes episode 29 of finding your way through therapy. I hope you enjoyed the conversation with Jessica, I certainly did learn a lot about health and nutrition as well as finding ways to think about are working out or doing movement as we talked about in a way that is much more palpable for a whole lot of us. So I hope you enjoyed that. Episode 30 I can't believe I'm episode 30 already. And this will be from the new year and we're going to talk about resolutions and why I don't really believe in resolutions and how we need to reframe the thought process around that. So I hope you'll join me. Please like, subscribe or follow this podcast on your favorite platform. A glowing review is always helpful. And as a reminder, this podcast is for information, educational, and entertainment purposes. If you're struggling with a mental health or substance abuse issue, please reach out to a professional counselor or therapist for consultation.