E.34 A Conversation With Crystal Partney About Suicide, Stigma, And The Importance Of Talking About Suicide

In this episode, I talk with Crystal Partney,  an author, speaker, suicide grief coach and founder of Scattering Hope and Owl & Thistle.  After losing her sister, the day before her birthday, from suicide, Crystal is scattering hope to those who need it through her work, as well as the upcoming "You Are Loved" podcast.  We discuss the stigma of suicide,  what we can do to lift that stigma, the hard conversations we must have, as well as other resources to use.
You can reach Crystal her websites: www.scatteringhope.com & www.owlandthistle.com
You can also follow her on Instagram  here and here
You can  also follow her on Facebook at Scattering Hope and Owl & Thistle

Transcript

Steve Bisson: 0:01

Hi and welcome to finding your way through therapy. I am your host, Steve Bisson. I'm an author and mental health counselor. Are you curious about their? Do you feel there is a lot of mystery about there? Do you wonder what your therapist is doing and why? The goal of this podcast is to make therapy and psychology accessible to all by using real language and straight to the point discussions. This podcast wants to remind you to take care of your mental health, just like you would your physical health. therapy should not be intimidating. It should be a great way to better health. I will demystify what happens in counseling, discuss topics related to mental health and discussions you can have with your therapists. I also want to introduce psychology and everyday life. As I feel most of our lives are enmeshed in psychology. I want to introduce the subtle and not so subtle way psychology plays a factor in our lives. It will be my own mix of thoughts as well as special guests. So join me on this discovery of therapy and psychology. Hi, and welcome to episode 34 of finding your way through therapy. My name is Steve Bisson. If you haven't listened to Episode 33 yet, please do so. It was a discussion regards to harmful use of diagnosis on social media. I've been very concerned about that for a while. So hopefully you listened to that episode you really enjoyed. But episode 34 will be with crystal partner crystal partners an author, speaker and suicide grief coach and founder of scattering hope and Alan TESL. She's also the host of the upcoming you are loved podcast after losing her sister. On the day before a birthday from suicide crystal is hoping to continue to open the dialogue in regards to suicide and mental health in general. And I really hope that it goes well I actually side story, I met crystal online on one of those zoom meetings on something else. And then we met in San Diego by accident at a conference that we were both attending. And I really enjoyed talking to Krystal during that time, and I'm hoping that that shows up in the interview. So here is the interview with crystal. Hi, and welcome to episode 34 of finding your way through therapy. You know, it's interesting you meet people differently throughout your your career and your life. And I met crystal online for the first time when we were going through a podcast kind of like thing, which the Vulture and then we went to a I guess it was more of a get together. I don't know what to call it, but to get more information on how to get a podcast going. And we met in San Diego also for the first time face to face. And I just love crystal story. I just enjoyed it so much. So I wanted to invite crystal to my podcast. So crystal Partney. Welcome.

Crystal Partney: 2:49

Thank you

Steve Bisson: 2:51

Crystal, I don't want to share too much with the audience what I what I know about why I find it so interesting. So maybe you can tell us a little bit about yourself at this point.

Crystal Partney: 3:00

Sure. So my story really began the day before my birthday. In 2019. I received a phone call from my mother that morning that my sister Gina had taken her life. And after that, I just I just needed next steps. I didn't know how to begin to heal. I obviously have experienced tremendous loss in my life. But to lose someone to suicide was a whole new ballgame. And I honestly didn't know how to react. I didn't know how to process it. And it was such a shock. Not just to me, but to my whole family in general. And that's that's really where my story begins. What's your sister's name? Gina?

Steve Bisson: 3:53

And I'm very sorry for your loss. Thank you. You know, it's it one of the hardest things to do is to figure out suicide. It's such a thing that's very difficult to understand for so many people. Obviously, very shocking and lose your sister. Was she younger, older? Yeah, she was my oldest sister. And kind of like losing that older sister and then having right before your birthday. Right? Is just how did you feel that day? I mean, how do you process that? How did this so difficult for so many people?

Unknown: 4:28

It wasn't easy, that's for sure. My like I said, Excuse me when my mom called me. I was expecting her to you know just asked me about my day asked me about how you know what I was planning for my birthday the next day. So to have her call wasn't anything unusual? Because we talk on the phone practically every day. And so for her to call was nothing new but as soon as I pick up the phone I knew that something was terribly wrong. Because I could just hear it in her voice. She didn't even have to say anything I could just, I could just feel it. And that day was just a complete whirlwind. My little girl was three. At that time, her birthday is the end of January. And so I was then faced with a difficult decision. How do I tell my three year old that her aunt Gina has died? Let alone? How do I explain to a three year old about suicide? And what do I disclose? And how do I have that conversation with her because she's so little. And I felt like me and my husband handled it really well. And to be like, fully transparent, we were just open. I didn't go into details. But it was just a beautiful moment that I shared that with me and my daughter. And if you'd like, I'll share it with you. But he's doing it. Yeah. So it was several days after my sister's passing. And I wrestled with the idea, as you can imagine, of telling her Okay, what do I share? How do I share it? And she knew something was up. And that's the beautiful thing about having kids that age, is they're very much aware. They're very attune to their surroundings. They know something has gone terribly wrong. They just don't know what. So I was in the bathroom, and my little girl came in and she goes, Mommy, why? You've been crying about why I'm crying. And so without, you know, talking to my husband first, but I, you know, inadvertently said, Hey, we need to say something to her. So I just took that moment and said, Honey, I've been crying because you know, and Gina has died. And she looked at me and she goes, why? And I said, Well, honey, I don't know why. I said she was just really sad. And then it's it's so interesting, because she then looked at me and she started to smile. And I said to her, literally, honey, why are you smiling? And she goes, Well, does that mean she's with Grandpa Lanie. And that's my dad. And she never got the opportunity to meet my dad. But because because he passed away before she was born, but we talk about him all the time. And so she goes is is does that mean she's with Grandpa me? And I said Yes, honey. And she says, okay, and she ran into the doctor. And it was so it was kind of comical, because it was like, Oh, that went better than I expected. Not that I could plan for these things, but but it was like, Oh, she handled that far better than I anticipated. And, and for her. That's all she needed. It was just so much comfort and peace to me at that moment. That it was like, oh, okay, so she doesn't need to know the details. She just needs to know that she's in good company that she's with, you know, my dad and other loved ones that have passed on. And that's enough for her. And that should be enough for me. And of course, like we're both all of us are tremendously sad. But to have it be focalize for my three year old, it was like, oh, okay, I get it, I get it. And it was beautiful. You know, I have a tear in my eye just listening to your story. And it's a little bit of the stuff that I think is so important for so many people having some sort of spiritual life, whatever that is. And again, you know, whether it's you know, with your father, or whatever spiritual life people believe in, which is fine. I always tell people how important spiritual life is to your own mental health and how to deal with difficulties because if you not having a spiritual life is probably the most difficult thing to not have when you're going through a whole lot. I know that we're going to be shifting a little bit here but you talked about how your daughter dealt with it and you did brilliant as a parent I gotta tell you that was plan. No, not really. You read that you read the book on it. I'm assuming that the book that came out, you know when she was born as a manual and all right, exactly that manual this fabulous by the way? Yes. Hey, if I can get my hands on it, please let me know. But I wonder how also for you As you lose your sister, and how did you deal with all that? Because not only is it hard because you have a young daughter, but it's also dealing with your own loss because it's your sister. Yeah. Well, like I have shared just a minute ago, it wasn't easy. I was literally graduating, I was in my senior year of college, about a month away from graduating. So as you can imagine, not that there's any perfect timing to hear this, this tragedy, but it came at such a time where I was like, Oh, my goodness, okay. Now I'm faced with a decision, do I even graduate, and I really had to sit with that and say, what my sister want for me in this moment. And my sister knew, like, the, you know, blood, sweat and tears, of just getting to that point where it was like, Okay, I see that I'm graduating in a month. And I had to just ask, and I, honestly, I had to ask her to, and just ask her verbally and say, Do you know what would you want? I know, you would want me to graduate? Is this what you want? And it was a definite yes, like, I want you to graduate. And then you can work out the details later. And so that's what I did, I was very fortunate to graduate. And it didn't matter how crazy at that point, I just graduated. And I told myself that I was going to take a year off. And I was very fortunate, I didn't have to, like rush out and find a job in the field that I had just graduated, I could really, you know, just take my time and just heal. And so that's what I did. But interestingly enough, you know, we talked about the spiritual aspect of it. After it hit me and we went on a graduation trip to San Diego of all places, actually. And my mom, and my husband and daughter, you know, we all celebrated and I wanted my mom to come and she did, and we had a fabulous time, and but I gotta be honest, that's really when it hit me that my sister was gone. Because I felt like up until that point, you know, you're just going through the motions, and you're just like, graduating, right? And, you know, turn to this paper, do this test, go to work, I'll fill all the blank BMR. And then, when we were on my trip, it was like, the noise just got stopped. And it was quiet. And that's when it was like, Oh, wow, okay, this is real. This is real. And, and raw. To and not again, just not just for me, but for my whole family, my mom. And it was, it was extremely difficult. And I want to always tell people that that first year, you've got to be able to ebb and flow. You can't go at the pace that you're going out before. And you can't continuously like beat yourself up over what has happened, you know, because it's so easy to get in your head and be like, well, I could have done this, or I should have done this. And you really have to take a step back and say, I did the best I could with the circumstance, I did the best I could with where I was at. I have to give myself grace. Because at the end of the day, again, I keep referring back to my sister because I'm constantly asking her like, okay, Gina, I know that you would not want me to keep reminiscing and holding this unattainable. Like standard to myself. I wish she would want me to begin healing whatever that looks like for me. And just again, bringing that grace into your life is so key. Well, I think that when you go through the grieving process, there's Kubo Ross's stages of grief that everyone knows about. And as I knew, some people have said it's been debunk. I don't necessarily agree with that. I do believe there's no order to it. I mean, the disbelief, the depression, the anger, the bargaining and the acceptance. They happen in different right waves. And they'll happen again, over and over. I think until we pass away, frankly, because it's you know, you can accept something that doesn't mean the anger is taken care of. I don't think that the bargaining is taken care of necessarily. We still think about these things and the ebb and flow. I think that's great advice for the first year just being able to To adapt, is, you know, in respecting yourself, I mean, therapists and a lot of people talk about self care. But being able to be just caring for yourself, I mean, there's a difference between the two, in my opinion, being able to care for yourself and giving yourself a break is so important. So I think that that's where you did really good with the ebb and flow. And I really like the, you know, how it hit you at a different time. We're talking about what a four month period that it hit you? Yeah, I would say, you know, definitely within, you know, after graduating, and then after the date, we immediately went on vacation. And it was that that period of vacation and winding down and coming back from the vacation, that's really I would say, Yeah, that's a pretty accurate, that's the four month span. But again, it was a continuum. It wasn't like, Hey, I'm good. But it's interesting, because everybody's journey is unique in the, in the healing process, and the grieving process, because I have family members that they just immediately went back to work. And it was like, no big deal. But I knew that they were hurting. They just had a different way of showing it. And so again, it's so personal, and there's no right or wrong way. But as long as you begin, because it's so easy to just push it off and be like, Nope, I don't want to deal with that. I don't want to say that, you know, the classic phrase, I'm fine. Like bullcrap fine, but that's okay. If that's the front you want to put up. That's, that's your choice. But I would just encourage anybody that if they're in that situation, and they find themselves wanting to push it off, because it is hard, and it is difficult, and it's going to bring up a wave of emotions to learn to embrace it, rather than resist it. Because in the moments when I did resist it, oh, my goodness, Steve, it came back like tenfold? And can I just say that the least opportune moment like, Oh, I'm at the grocery store, and I'm like, sobbing in the cereal aisle. Not the best time but hey. Yeah, and unfortunately, we don't have any control over that, either. So yeah, just a reminder, we're listening to finding your way through therapy. I'm sitting here, we're still part me by the name of Stevie. So one of the things that I really I think we related to so many different things off air, obviously, and want to say, you know, having lost my best friend when I was 12, and really not processing it till I was 16. It was a weird situation for me to deal with that 1980s Much different time than today. So obviously, that's giving away my age. Therapy wasn't offered to me, obviously. And that's not because anyone is bad. It wasn't the wasn't the zeitgeist of the times, we didn't really think about that stuff. Did you end up going to counseling going to therapy or anything like that? Yeah, absolutely. In fact, that was one of the, the requests that my mother had was, as soon as this tragedy occurred, we, as a family decided, okay, me and my, my other sister decided, okay, now is the time that mom really needs to begin to process this and go to therapy. We had encouraged her to go long before my sister's passing. But when, you know, my, my dad passed away, and we were encouraging her then and for whatever reason, it didn't happen. And then when my sister passed away, it was like, Okay, no, this is the, this is the final straw like, we need you to go. And she very lovingly asked if I would go with her. She said, I'll go but I want you to go with me. And that's fine. I will go. And to be fully transparent, we still go, we still go even to this day. And it's not obviously as frequently as it was in the beginning. But I found it tremendously helpful because there was this third party that could speak into our story and speak into the problems that we were having the circumstances. And just in general, and it's interesting, because when I reached out to this, this therapist that was referred to us, I, I kind of felt like, well, in my mind, this tragedy has already occurred. So it's too late. And it It was just interesting because the therapist was like, no, like, I need you in here next week. Like, they were very adamant like, no, I need your hair next week, like, can you come next week? Right? And, and it just kind of threw me off guard because in my mind, it was like, well, it was too late, but not understanding. No, it's never too late. And that, you know, having someone to be adamant and saying no, like, now's the perfect time. And let's get started. Let's have you begin that healing process and having therapy as a, again, it's like a tool belt, right? You're having another tool that you can refer to, that is only going to help you. And it's for your benefit. I know that there's such a stigma there, but there really shouldn't be there's, and I don't know why. But I'm yeah, my thing that we're still dealing with a whole lot of history, in westernized cultures, and in America, about something bad happened, get your shit together and get back into whatever you're doing. Right off the bat. Do whatever, distract yourself. Yeah, yeah. Well, it's called burying it. Come on, let's go. And think that that's why like, one of the biggest things that bereavement process is so important, in my opinion is to, you know, as you said, I'm going to say, in a therapeutic way, I think that's just validating where you're at and being okay. I mean, you always feel strange, because, you know, you're, you're like, Okay, I'm kind of feeling blank, but you feel strange. So the bereavement process with a family therapy, or even an individual therapy is really helpful to be validated for how you feel. I don't know how you feel about that. Oh, absolutely. Because it's interesting. You know, my, my mom would share something in therapy session, and then the therapist would say, well, is that true? No, we tend to be like, Oh, yes, the SE, but it's pretty comical. It's like, okay, is that true? And it's like, well, yeah, is that's true, or Nope. So it's nice to, it's nice to have a family member there to just process everything. And, you know, me and my mom had always been really close. And we were extremely close to my sister and my sister, Elena lived with my mother and in the basement of my mom and dad's home. And so, so to say that they were close was, of course, right. I'm just a big fan of therapy, obviously, as I do that for a living. But I also think that when you go through therapy, did you feel yourself any type of stigma for going to therapy for the loss of your sister, like you said, I think the words were, well, the tragedy already occurred, why go to therapy? Was there a stigma that came in with that for you? Oh, absolutely. Because, again, you know, suicide in general holds its own stigma. And then, and then you are, you're trying to, you know, grapple with what has happened, and this already occurred. And of course, like, I had to deal with that, and my own regard and just say, like, Crystal, this is for my benefit, this is for your benefit. And but I also realized, too, when I had to share with my daughter, that, you know, Angelina has, has died. I realized in that moment, Steve, that it wasn't just me that I had a three year old, that was looking to me in this very moment. For that whenever she experiences a tragedy in her life, she's gonna remember this moment. And she's going to ask herself, well, how did mom handle it? Was she like a wreck? Was she, you know, strong? Was she? Did she ask for help? Did she receive help? That was the key because I gotta be honest, I very struggled with like receiving the help from whether it was my husband or my daughter outside, other family members or friends. That was a struggle for me. But I just realized in that moment that okay, this isn't about just me, but she's gonna remember this and how I process it. And I'm setting the bar for her, so that whenever she does experience a tragedy, she's gonna refer to this moment. And notice I'm saying, when not if You don't think it's all over and you'll never have a tragedy until the end of your life

Crystal Partney: 24:59

wishful thinking a bit now.

Unknown: 25:02

But I think that's, that's good. I mean, you said it yourself modeling the behavior so important. And also kind of like saying that this is going to happen again, I think that there's a lot of people who like to think that you know, this one tragedy. And it's not going to be one tragedy, we all have losses. I mean, in life, that's just how it is and knowing how to process it and feeling everything you say, you know, my daughter, did I bury it did I deny that I deal with it that I go to therapy that I talked to her? I think it's not just one of those things. It's all of those things need to be addressed. And I think that therapy really helps with that. Just a final question, what do you think was the most helpful that your therapist did other than say, well, is that true? I mean, is there other things that you felt that the therapist really did? Well, for you? Yeah, I would say one of the things that they continue to do is press further, because it's easy for me and for, you know, my mom to, to kind of give like the blanket statement or the story. But then to dig a little bit deeper, and ask more questions was extremely helpful, and is extremely helpful to the therapy process. Because, again, not realizing like, hey, there's, there's some underlying things that as I'm sharing just different stories, or whatever the case may be, whether it's a conflict, there's always more to it. And so just having the our therapist, you know, press a little bit further, even when it's hard, and just be willing to ask them questions and dive a little deeper. Therapy is not necessarily comfortable. If it's too comfortable, it's probably not good. You know, I push my clients regularly, and I always share the story. My former therapist, when I first met her, I did like 15 minutes with her. And she looked at me after 15 minutes, she's like, Alright, now that you've said, all your therapist bullshit, are you going to tell me the real truth. And I remember going, Wow, she called me right away on my stuff. And she, she, she gained my absolute respect. And I know that some people I share that story when people feel uncomfortable about therapy, and I say it's okay to be uncomfortable in therapy. That's what it should be. And maybe that's part of the stigma. But for me, it's like, let's lift the stigma by saying, yeah, it should be uncomfortable, you go to PT, it's not going to be comfortable, you're working back your way to different things. So mental health is the same way. Let's shift gears a little bit, because I really want to know more about what are your thoughts? Because you've been through your own therapy, you went through your loss? You know, this is so difficult, especially losing your sister Gina, what would you tell someone after losing a loved one to suicide? What would your would be your thoughts on that? My thoughts are just, there's always hope. I know that, especially for me, I felt alone. And just trying to process it. Even though I knew like, mentally, I'm not alone. But there was just this void that was missing. And quite frankly, I don't think we'll ever be filled because she took a piece of my heart. And so but there's always hope, and you don't need a lot of it. You only need a sliver of it. And I know that there are going to be really, really dark days ahead of you. And just know that when you're in those moments, to look for the signs that they're there with you. Because one of the one of the moments that was so profound was it was actually before my sister passed away. It was the Christmas that I shared with my family. After my dad passed away, he passed away in April of 2013. And it was Christmas and there. That was just a really tough year for me. I kind of claimed that my year of hell. Because I in January, I lost a nephew at 39 weeks gestation. And then I lost my dad in April due to health complications. And then I lost my best friend in December of that year, to the same health complications. And I remember that Christmas and this just sitting there, Matt, I was so mad. And I remember yelling and just being like, you guys should be here right now. You should be here. And I was extremely sad. And I gotta say, it was such a, I felt this peace come over me and all is the Whisper only said was crystal, we're here. We're just not in the form that you want us to be in. And it was like, Oh, you're right. I want you to be here physically. But in that moment, I realized they're still here. They're experiencing life with you. Make no mistake of it. They are here they are with you and the UPS. They are with you and the downs. And they're not going anywhere. And just it brought me so much peace in that moment. And yes, of course, I was still mad. I was extremely sad, but it was like, Okay, you're right. You're right. I want you here physically. But you're not. But I can. You're still here. I just can't see you. But you're experiencing life with me. And I it's kind of interesting, because I always joke. I told my sister I'm like, okay, Gina, you're more than welcome to hang out with me. But I'm kind of boring. And if you're okay with that, then you're more than welcome to stay. So I'm glad I can still, you know, give her a laugh. And she can give me a laugh.