Grief and Growth: Finding Purpose After Losing a Father

Bruce Wasser shares his journey of losing his father at age 15 and how this profound loss shaped his decision to become a conscientious objector during the Vietnam War and ultimately led to his 33-year teaching career.

• Growing up in Seattle with his father Joe, a WWII veteran who instilled values of teamwork, equality, and community
• Devastating loss of his father to cancer just 14 months after diagnosis when Bruce was only 15 
• Becoming an overachiever in school and sports as a response to grief
• Drawing the draft lottery number 90 during Vietnam and applying for conscientious objector status
• Finding surrogate father figures in coaches, professors, and public figures like Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
• Discovering his calling as a teacher where he could identify and connect with students who were hurting
• Experiencing what his wife calls "post-traumatic growth" – becoming more empathetic through trauma
• Suggestions for grieving on Father's Day: share grief with others, write letters to your father, find meaningful places

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Transcript

Introduction to Resilience Development

Speaker 1 0:00

Welcome to Resilience Development in Action , where strength meets strategy and courage to help you move forward . Each week , your host , steve Bisson , a therapist with over two decades of experience in the first responder community , brings you powerful conversations about resilience , growth and healing through trauma and grief . Through authentic interviews , expert discussions and real-world experiences , we dive deep into the heart of human resilience . We explore crucial topics like trauma recovery , grief processing , stress management and emotional well-being . This is Resilience Development in Action with Steve Bisson .

Speaker 2 0:42

Hi and welcome to Episode 208 . If you haven't listened to episode 207 , it was with Elizabeth Eklund . I hope you enjoyed it . I did enjoy it , and if you haven't listened to it , go back and listen to it . But for episode 208 , it will be for a Father's Day special with Bruce Wasser .

Speaker 2 0:57

Bruce Wasser is someone that reached out to me and I thought his story was great . He has a memoir called 90 . He was a conscientious objector during Vietnam war . He's a graduate with a high honors from Princeton and he served as a public school teacher for over three decades where he created a statewide curriculum that got honors that stimulated empathy for those who are victims of persecution . Now retired , he lives with his wife , who is also an author , fern Schumer Chapman , in Northern Illinois .

Speaker 2 1:28

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Speaker 2 1:53

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Speaker 2 2:57

Well , hi everyone and welcome to this important episode for Father's Day . It'll be episode 208 . I'm just happy to have someone who's going to talk about his book , his memoir called 90 , available on Amazon and Barnes Noble . So please keep that in mind . Bruce Wasser , welcome to Resilience Development in Action

Bruce Wasser's Early Life

Speaker 2 3:17

. Very happy to have you here .

Speaker 3 3:18

Thank you very much for inviting me .

Speaker 2 3:21

Well , the first thing I want to say and my audience knows this more than anyone . You can see the sign in the back Big Montreal Canadiens fan . That's the first thing I want to say , and my audience knows this more than anyone . You can see the sign in the back big montreal canadians fan . That's the first thing that bruce mentioned . He's like oh my god , you know he really liked the canadians . I'm like we're lifelong friends , me and bruce . Now we're all set . He's also a fan of the montreal canadians , despite living in what illinois ?

Speaker 2 3:41

correct so you're in illinois , you live in california and in seattle , and no kraken , no kings , no black hawks . So there you go , all you fans . I might have made some enemies here too , uh , but it's fine , that's what hockey's all about . But um , I bruce , you know , I , I got to know you a little bit before the we started the interview and I read a little bit about you , but my audience doesn't know about you . So how about you introduce yourself and tell us about yourself ?

Speaker 3 4:08

I'd be happy to . I am now 76 years old . My early childhood life was spent in Seattle , washington . I was born in 1949 . Seattle was a wonderful city in which to grow . Seattle was a wonderful city in which to grow . We lived near my mother's mother , across the street from the park , and there in Seattle I had grew a lifelong love of athletics and bonded deeply with my father . My father was , I think , somewhat emblematic of a generation of Americans . He grew up during the Great Depression , lost his own father , coincidentally when he was but a teenager in Atlanta , georgia . My father was , I think , an extraordinary athlete , a gifted athlete , and to this day I think he was the best natural athlete I've ever seen . Joe grew up in Atlanta . World War II occurred and after a very brief one-year stay at Georgia Tech , dad became a soldier literally GI Joe Stationed in the Pacific Northwest . Literally , gi Joe stationed in the Pacific Northwest .

Speaker 2 5:31

He met my father at a .

Speaker 3 5:32

USO . He met my mother at a USO dance , married , and I was the first of three children , this idyllic childhood , growing up in a time I now recognize , of great fear . The 1950s in the United States had McCarthyism . There was a drive for conformity . It was a time where assimilated people we were Jewish and we lived in a beautiful community , magnolia , in the city of Seattle . But it was a time of fear . But it was a time of fear .

Speaker 3 6:02

Dad was a civilian worker in Fort Lawton , a United States military post in Seattle , very close to our home . He would come home at 4.30 every day . We would go to the park and play . He coached me in baseball , he was my skipper and life seemed to be on an ascendant track . In 1963 , dad received a wonderful opportunity from the General Services Administration , a promotion that moved us to San Diego , quite a different place than Seattle , washington . San Diego at that time . Now , what we would call a major league city was not . It was still a very quiet , small community , heavily a military community , and dad worked downtown in Seattle , in San Diego . But within a couple of months you've heard the expression the wheels went off the bus . That's what happened to our family . President John Kennedy was assassinated in November of 1963 , literally eight weeks after

Father's Illness and Sudden Death

Speaker 3 7:16

he moved to San Diego .

Speaker 3 7:18

Shortly thereafter my father was diagnosed with cancer , a disease that it was a rapid , devastating disease that took this incredibly handsome , strong , physical man and ruined him . Dad died in January of 1965 . So from diagnosis to death was a very short period , just 14 months or so you'll say a year . That was really quick , yeah , very , very quick . At that time I think the response in our family , my mother's response and my father's was a combination of denial and protection . We knew dad was the word was sick . Dad was ill , but he had at one point of remission where he was getting what they would call better , but we were shielded from it To this day . I remember the last time I saw my father . He looked in the hospital , he looked awful . His arm was terribly distended , with swelling Difficult to look at . One eye was almost closed , weeping , and I asked dad to change the channel on the television . Of all things , my last communication with my father was something so egregiously self-centered , but I was a kid , I was a sophomore in high school and that's when dad passed away .

Speaker 2 8:57

Well , first of all , self-centered . I mean , that's what we do at that age and unfortunately we all know that we don't know the last time we're going to say something to someone . My audience knows and I'm going to cut the corners . It wasn't my dad when I was 12 . I lost my best friend and we played football and soccer together and my last words to my my friend was it's about fucking time because he had , he had borrowed my pads because he hurt his arm . And then he gave him back to me and I said it's about fucking time because he had , he had borrowed my pads because he hurt his arm . And then he gave him back to me and I said it's about fucking time . And he died that weekend in a fire .

Speaker 2 9:33

You know , when you talk about self-centered or whatever , I don't think we know any better and sometimes we don't realize that this may be our last communication with whoever , um , and you know , with our fathers , with father's day . You know , and I'm sure you talk about this in your memoir , but I think that what the hardest part is to we never know when it's the last time you're going to speak to your dad . My dad was that my dad got diagnosed with cancer in october and died in december , and that's how quickly he went , oh my . So the last time I saw him I said I'll see you next weekend . He said yes , and that was my last words to him .

Speaker 2 10:10

You never know these things and the only thing I want to , I know I want to get back to the seriousness of what we're talking about , but I just want to mention for you young people out there a skipper is what you call a manager , but we call them a skipper because we're that's , we're older , so that's what we call their manager , but we call them a skipper because we're older , so that's what we call their manager . Just wanted to mention that . I just wrote it down and half the people won't even know what the hell is a skipper , but just wanted to mention that . But I'd love to hear more about what happened after that passed away , because you were so young . I mean , there's gotta be some consequences when that happens .

Speaker 3 10:44

Unfortunately , that's a very kind question that you asked , and I'll do my best to answer it . I think my father's death was a catastrophe for our family . He was the center of our universe . We all orbited around him . He was a remarkably gregarious man , atypical for his time . Here's a quick story In the 1960s , if a man called another man on the phone , the question would be what do you want ?

Speaker 3 11:23

You wouldn't be calling to talk , and my father would call to talk . We would call that networking or this is a very female-oriented just to talk . We all careened out of orbit , all of us . I think it was devastating for my mother , a beautiful , bright , driven woman , and she lost her Joe when she was very young . I was shattered by my father's death . There's no question about it , and like many young people , I think my first response was self-blame . What did I do to bring about my father's death ? What wrong did I commit ? I must have done something wrong . That dad would be taken from me , and so I think this is , to me , makes a lot of sense . A lot of kids , teenagers , are bewildered by this event , over which we have no control . I was not prepared at all for the extraordinary wreckage that this death caused in my family . All of us grieved in different ways .

Speaker 3 12:32

I think I hurled myself into school . I went to a terrific public high school in San Diego , california , claremont . A prototypical middle-class high school that had an extraordinary curriculum . I look back now and I remember I taught

Coping After Dad's Death

Speaker 3 12:57

for 35 years . I look back and think this is a remarkable public school . Mandarin Chinese was taught there . Professors from our In the 60s yes , wow , professors from our community college came and taught when I was a senior , taught the calculus and political science . But this was not an affluent community , it was a working class to middle class community . In San Diego . I threw myself into school . I became a classic overachiever , thinking that somehow , if I pushed myself , hurled myself in a life of activity and academic excellence in high school , that I could compensate for the death of my father . And I did . I was the first straight-A student in my high school's history . I was not a gifted athlete , but I absorbed my father's profound lessons about almost the sacredness of teamwork , the essence of community building . So I became the first most inspirational player in my school's history , twice in basketball I was going to ask you which sport ? Yeah , basketball , I mean . I was literally the 15th player on a 14-player team .

Speaker 3 14:26

I learned and this is I deal with this in my memoir 90 , a book that deals with conscientious objection but also deals with my reaction to my father's death I now know that my father I saw my father talk to our high school basketball coach in the fall , in the winter of 1964 . I think this must have been perhaps six weeks before dad died . Well , I had no idea what dad was talking to coach Richard Eiler about , but I'm sure it was take care of my kid , take care of my boy , yeah , and coach Eiler did . He kept me on the team . I was horrible , I was a terrible basketball player , but I was a great teammate . I was a great teammate and I loved coach Eiler . I loved our ballplayers . I was lucky to be on two very , very good ballclubs championship ballclubs and I saw in Coach Eiler the first of father figures .

Speaker 3 15:37

One other note I'd like to make is I think I have had one of the consequences of my dad's death . It's almost a lifelong need to try to make order out of things , sometimes even utterly uncontrollable . So when I taught , I was known as the manilophile man , always had everything perfectly organized . I like timetables . I try the best I can to keep order . Now why ? I'm not compulsive , but order is important to me . Why ? Because my life went out of order .

Speaker 2 16:12

I was going to say it's a trauma response , but that's the therapist without any question at all now .

Speaker 3 16:18

Now I'm an old guy , I'm 70 and I can look back and understand this , but I would wonder why that ? People probably say why is this guy so organized ? Why is everything so ? I also realized that I had , as a consequence of my father's death , the need to be a good human being , the need to honor the values that my father instilled in me In athletics , but that would seep out into other aspects of my life . That would seep out into other aspects of my life .

Speaker 3 16:56

Although he was a non-practicing Jew , he believed in the Judaic principles of community , of tolerance , of dignity . The need is , he would say , of of absolute equality . He would . He would say it this way son , they put their pants on one leg at a time , just like you . You ain't no better than anybody else , but they put their pants on one leg at a time , just like you . You ain't no better than anybody else , but they ain't no better than you . You know his grammar was awful , but his precepts were profound and I've tried to live by them . So that would be the need to be a good human being was a direct consequence of dad's death .

Speaker 2 17:36

Well , it's kind of interesting because I know this is part of your book . I know you may want to talk about something else , but I want to go to something here , if you don't mind is that being a good human being sometimes is to object the things that we think are wrong , and it takes a lot of courage to do so , and I know that in your book you address it . But can I hear more about your conscientious objection and how maybe the role of your dad played in that and how his influence led you to be more of a conscientious objector ?

Speaker 3 18:09

Well it's , I think , an ironic and almost paradoxical consequence . I think an ironic and almost paradoxical consequence . I never had the chance , like many young men and women , to kind of butt heads with a parent on a very serious decision , never had a chance to run up against my dad . My dad was a veteran . He was not a pacifist . Dad played football . He was not anything like a conscientious objector . I think my father's death put me on a path of trying to find out what the best person I could be . And at that time , as I was coming of age , in the late 1960s , the United States was involved in a disastrous war halfway around the globe , in Vietnam .

Becoming a Conscientious Objector

Speaker 3 19:09

Over time I became an opponent of that war . But even before I became a full-throated opponent to that war , I was deeply shaken by the death of Dr Martin Luther King Jr and Robert Kennedy Sr . Their two assassinations , within two months of each other , in the late spring and early summer of 1968 , had profound reverberations nationally and , of course , personally , I had mentioned just a bit ago that I had searched for father surrogates . Well , those can be people that we know and they can be people that we don't know . I never met Dr King , I never met Robert Kennedy , but they were father figures to me , yeah , represented . They were about the same age . They represented something proud and decent and good and hopeful with which I could identify .

Speaker 3 20:16

Well , after Robert Kennedy's assassination , I made application for a conscientious objector Now your audience , that means a man . In this case it was men who object to all war . My thoughts were still relatively unformed . What I was really objecting to was violence . Now , this was political violence and assassination , but you can see how nuanced it was , also a reaction to the violence that took my father . Cancer was a violent disease . It ravaged dad , and so I saw the parallels between the evils of racism and political violence in the United States to the evils of cancer that ravaged dad . I became a CO At that time as I explained and CO stands for conscientious objector .

Speaker 2 21:15

For those who are wondering , correct , sorry , I like to explain over-explain ?

Speaker 3 21:18

Oh no , I don't think that's over-explaining . That makes complete sense to me . I did not have to prove anything to a local draft board . The draft board , a local draft board , would be the agency that would determine the authenticity of my claim . That would determine the authenticity of my claim .

Speaker 3 21:37

I instead took what was called a student deferment . Defer means to put off , and at that time , in the late 1960s , if you were going to college you could receive a deferment , a pass . You're actually passing the responsibilities on to those men who could not go to college , and that's a fact that still continues to haunt me . So , even though I made application to be a conscientious objector , I knew that if I continued to go to college and I went to Princeton at the time that I would be deferred from any kind of military involvement until the summer of 1971 . Would the war be over by then ? In that case my application would be meaningless . I could go on and pursue my life . But as the war ground on and our troop and there were insufficient number of troops who were volunteering to fight in this war it became obvious there would be a need to cons from that draft was a lottery . I drew the unlucky number 90 , aligned with my birth date , and thus my application for conscientious objection would be put to the test .

Speaker 2 23:06

What does that ?

Speaker 3 23:07

mean . It meant that in the summer of 1971 , I would have to prove to my local draft board that I was indeed sincere . My mother by this time , frightened that she would lose , another man had interfered by asking our local congressman to intercede on my behalf . It was a completely understandable but unwise decision . And as I developed by this time a good relationship with the secretary of the local draft board and she informed me that this kind of meddling was terrible on two levels . One , it was direct interference with the board trying to put pressure on the board , and second , it made it look like I couldn't take care of my own business , that my mom was doing something for me that I should have done myself . My mom , out of love and out of anguish , told me that my father would have been ashamed of me . Anguish told me that my father would have been ashamed of me , that he would have repudiated me , that he would have been aghast that I was making an application for conscientious objection . She begged me to have a doctor write a phony excuse . The current president of the United States is a shameful example of a man who used a phony excuse to avoid responsibility for any kind of decision .

Speaker 3 24:44

I would never leave the United States . I was profoundly , and still am , deeply , a deeply patriotic person . It sometimes can be confounding for people to hear people on the left say that they deeply love their country . Right now we almost associate patriotism with being on the right , and it's never been that way for me . I felt great respect and , oh , incredible anguish for those men and their loved ones who left the country , many of whom went to Canada and established a good and decent life there . But that wasn't for me . I realized , growing up in San Diego , a conservative military town , growing up in San Diego , a conservative military town , that I would not be granted , if I were not granted , co status . The likelihood is I would go to jail , and that terrified my mom , it ruined my life . So not only was I a shame , was I a shame to my beloved deceased father , but I was ashamed that I could be , that I would end up going to jail . So I had to call on the memory of my father and ask myself many times over what would my father have wanted me to do , me to do ? What would Joe have advised me to do in this terrible ordeal ?

Speaker 3 26:19

And at that time , living on campus , I would hear in the dorm . Sometimes I would hear other young men say terrible things about their father , sometimes even wishing that . I would hear them say I wish my father were dead , where I hate my old man or stuff , and I it caused . It made me wince . I was still coming of age , I was still becoming a man and I would say to myself boy , I wish , if you feel that way about your dad , I wish we could trade places . You know your father , that your father passed away and I would still have dad right .

Speaker 3 26:59

But I realized my father would . One of his phrases was show the folks what you got , son . Show them what you got . And I realized what I have is not athletic skill , what I have is not a terribly overwhelming intellect , but I've got a good heart . I have a love for humanity and I had to let that show . And I realized that , even though my father probably would have argued terribly against my decision , I think my father still would have loved me , at least now as I have grown up to be a complete adult . That's what I feel .

Speaker 2 27:46

Right , but how did you feel when you were younger ? I'm sure that that was a little tougher at that time Because you know , like you mentioned so many things here , you know being able to . You know , when I hear people wish people away , I always tell people you gotta remember , you're gonna regret that eventually , um , you know , um , we talk about grief , we talk about trauma , we talk about fathers . For me , that's something that I hear sometimes and I'm like look , you don't want to wish anyone that number one , but number two . You know , when you you do all this , I mean it's always interesting to think about . Like you know , your dad would still love you , but I'm sure that there was a lot of conflict at the time , without question , without question .

Speaker 2 28:36

You know , and I think that when you think about the Vietnam War , having those thoughts and yes , I mean patriotism has been lost and to me , patriotism has nothing to do with the left or the right , it has to do with loving your country or not . Having been an American for about four years now , but having lived here for 26 years , I'm proud to be an American , just like I'm proud from being from Canada , don't get me wrong , but at the end of the day , it's also hard to measure patriotism . Is it conscientious objectors ? Is it people who are getting on those planes and those helicopters and going to Vietnam ? What's a real good American ? I think that's . You know , that's that's . Patriotism has always been fluid in my opinion and it's hard to really figure it out . And when you had a dad who is in the military , like you said , it's even more difficult because you know forgotten country and sometimes that gets confused with being able to also make your own decisions . I think that's .

Speaker 3 29:36

I think that's correct . I was granted conscientious objector status , worked for two years at the Palo Alto Veterans Administration Hospital and during that time I changed my life's axis from wanting to be an attorney to being a teacher . And there I did . I taught in a working class community in California for almost 33 years the same school district and there I realized I was very much my father's son . I had a huge personality in the classroom . I was a beloved teacher and I recognized that my father , the anguish that I felt over my father's death , led me to become , I think , a more compassionate and empathetic human being , and my wife , fern Schumer Chapman , a wonderful author , has said that what I experienced , she thinks , is what's called post-traumatic growth .

Speaker 3 30:46

She said she would never wish the death of a beloved father on any adolescent , but she said it had unintended , wonderful consequences . It made me a teacher who almost had a sixth sense of kids who were hurting in my classroom . I could pick them out and they came to me like metal filings , to a magnet . I tried to love my students with all of my heart and to guide them , as a history teacher and as a teacher of English , to a greater appreciation

Finding Meaning Through Teaching

Speaker 3 31:27

of their nation , and so I think it would be almost as if I were a tree struck by lightning . I had to grow stronger around the scar that was my father's death , and I did . I think it made me .

Speaker 3 31:49

My dad's death made me a more complete , whole human being , one who was ever all the more committed to the ideals of a nation , passionately committed to the youth of the nation . That's why I became a teacher and hopeful , always hopeful that the future would bring something better than the past . That the future would bring something better than the past . Well , that's very powerful , thank you .

Speaker 3 32:26

I don't think I thought all of those things while they were happening . I can't claim that kind of foresight , but I do know that the large personality I showed in the classroom , my great belief in the need to be part of a community , the joy I had in living life , all of these things are the gifts that my beloved father , joe , gave me . Didn't realize it during the terrible maelstrom of adolescence , when I was suffering , but as I became an adult now , certainly in my retirement from teaching , I can see it now I still officiate sports . See it now , I still officiate sports . And whenever I step on a baseball field or a softball diamond . I always think of my father and the joy he had in athletics and what athletics could do for a young person's life .

Speaker 2 33:33

Well , this brings me to something that we , off the air , talked about . Father's Day is coming up and you talk about umping on Father's Day . Think about your dad . Can you tell me more about that ? And also , kind of like there's some people who are listening right now who may have just lost their father , who may not even know how to deal with all that their father , who may not even know how to deal with all that .

Speaker 2 34:01

So I'm looking for a couple of ideas for you how to deal with and process that loss , because it was powerful what you said about your dad . I know the role my dad plays in me every single day hindsight , not knowledge at the time but I definitely know all the stuff that I've become is thanks to my dad . So I want to hear more about how would you help someone go through Father's Day . I know on Father's Day , you said that's one of the things you like to do , but is there other stuff that you recommend that's such a nice question , and a sensitive one , I think , for those of you in your audience who are grieving .

Speaker 3 34:39

I think grief is best when shared with somebody close to you , and so if there is a person perhaps a spouse , a love person , a deep friend it might be on the anniversary , special anniversaries , father's Day it might be good to seek these people out to talk with them . I am always have been a believer in the therapy of writing . Write your father a letter , seal it . Write your father a letter . You don't have to mail it . Perhaps there's a place you could go after you've written this letter and read it to yourself . Maybe it's by a lakefront , it could be a park , it might be even an auto showroom .

Speaker 3 35:34

Go someplace where you can read the letter out loud . Find some place that brings your father back to you . Think about your father's presence in your life . Try not to idealize your father , but to see him for what he is

Navigating Grief on Father's Day

Speaker 3 35:56

and what he was a whole human being , flawed but loving . If that's the presence , if that's the grief , I think the greatest sadness those of us who are grieving may have is that we may not find a place to share our sadness . And so , if your readers have a person with whom they can share . That , I think , would be the most crucial thing to do .

Speaker 2 36:27

I think that sharing is so important . I tell people that grieving doesn't look one way , but all the advice that you just gave is very important . I think that there is no right way to grieve . Well , if you do , you have one hell of a book on your head . Follow up to 90 , like here's how we grieve the loss of our dad . I mean , I would love to have that book on hand , but there's no such thing ?

Speaker 3 36:52

No , there's no , I don't think there's any magic . I have two wonderful sons who now are , in their own right , fathers on their own , and they're . Both are fathers too , and they're . One has two sons , the other has one son and a beautiful daughter . And I think , if it's possible to see continuities in life , to rejoice in the blessings that we've had , I realize now that I only had my father for 15 years . I can't count the number of young men who have not had that Either . Their dads are absent , their dads were indifferent , their dads were cruel . That's a lot of people . And so sure I suffered a horrible loss . But now , at the age of 76 , I look back and I had 15 years of a loving guiding hand , and that was plenty enough . And despair .

Speaker 2 38:04

I think you make excellent points when you say that there's people who have dads who are not present . Dads who are present are very invasive or are physically there but not emotionally there . There are so many things to be said about that . The other thing I want to mention to everyone and we joked around about grief earlier , about the book , but the truth is is that this year I will free father's day differently than I did last year and it will be different than the year before , and I don't know what it's going to look like . Maybe there'll be tears this year , maybe they won won't . Maybe there'll be good moments , maybe they won't .

Speaker 2 38:39

But the other part , too , is , when we talk about grieving , don't look for the one way to grieve the loss of your dad , particularly on Father's Day . Just let yourself be , because even though , like you said , we were lucky enough to have our dads either for 15 years , I had my dad for about 41 years , you know . I think that the dads in general , they do want our best . Sometimes they don't know how to do that , but most dads want the best for their kids , as you do for your own sons . So don't judge your grief , don't look at it as being a certain way , and I want to throw that out too .

Speaker 3 39:15

Sure , certain way and I want to throw that out too Sure , I think sometimes men find it very difficult to access their emotions . We've been acculturated . That genuine feeling is somehow effeminate or not becoming of a man . If there are members in your audience who are uncomfortable with tears , perhaps they can find and they wish to shed them . Find a private place . Nobody has to see you , there's no report card on how well you're grieving . I also think that it's important to try to celebrate Father's Day every day , have your father be with you all the time , find , even in your daily life , maybe once or twice a day , you can find a place where you'd say , boy , dad would have liked this or dad would have enjoyed sharing this with me , and I think that would be a really nice way for your audience to keep dad alive .

Speaker 2 40:24

I was looking behind me . If you go on YouTube , I was looking behind me . I have a couple of pictures in my office this is my studio but they're all with the outside of the studio so I can't really show them , but my dad's present everywhere in my office , he's present at home and I think that that's important to think about that presence being there . As we wrap up here because time goes by fast , we talked about your memoir

Closing Thoughts on Bruce's Memoir

Speaker 2 40:49

90 . Yes , we can get there at Amazon . We can get that at Barnes and Nobles , as you said . Is there anything else that you think we should know about getting your memoir , because I think this would be an awesome read for a whole lot of people .

Speaker 3 41:00

Oh , I so appreciate that . I think the book is a lovely Father's Day idea . It's about a young man as me . It's about my life , and dad's presence in the book is everywhere it asks the book tries to come to grips with .

Speaker 3 41:19

What kind of a son am I ? Am I honoring my father's memory ? And so I think that book . Of course it deals with a young man trying to become a conscientious objector against an unpopular war , but it also deals with how a young man found father figures elsewhere in his life . I was so fortunate at university to have professors who were incredibly important to me . That search for a dad is lifelong , and it goes both ways . Other people may come and see you as a father figure . Many of my students did . I had the wonderful fortune of being a father and trying to convey to my sons what the essence of their grandfather , whom they could never see what he was like , what he was like . So I think the book may be a very helpful kind of a therapeutic read for those of your readers who are suffering grief . They'll look back , interestingly enough , in time a different time period of course and see how a kid became a man , how his grief ripened him into being a more productive human being .

Speaker 2 42:40

Well , I mean , I can't speak for your dad , obviously , but you're one hell of a man surviving this and going through the conscientious objection teaching young kids for over 30 years To me . When you're doing all of that , you know you can't . You can't regret your life choices and I truly appreciate you , bruce . Bruce Wassard , go on Amazon , warrens and Nobles , go get the book 90 , a memoir based on this young man who looks at least my age now at this point . So I don't know if that still makes us young men or not . But , bruce , from the bottom of my heart , thank you so much for the interview . I so appreciate the invitation . Thank you and join us for episode 209 . And I thank you for your time , guys .

Speaker 1 43:29

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